brescd01

I will consider myself warned! Your explanation corresponds to my understanding. But my confusion lies in the space between "0" and 1 plate: there are so few restaurants that get one plate, how does Pudlo distinguish amongst the restaurants it reviews but do not earn a plate?

I have difficulty understanding Pudlo's ratings (I am using the French version of the latest Paris edition). The ratngs for food appear to be determined by 1-3 plates. Then there are knives and forks, and whether these relate at all to food is unclear. The problem is, there is a large "space" covered beneath one plate (for example I do not think there is a single brasserie dignified with a plate). Is the mere inclusion meant to be a rec? What about the "broken plate" then, which is used to indicate a "deception," and boy, those reviews are bitter!

I have asked about regional cuisine, steakhouses, product driven restaurants, and restaurants open in August. In some ways, the real Paris brasserie meets all these needs, and most of the discussions have proposed at least one brasserie. Which are the best? I have heard Lorraine proposed, and La Rotunde (a well informed Chowhound endorses that one). Thoumieux and Marty have been mentioned, as has Stella. An article in the Telegraph avalable on te web, is very out-of-date. What say you? I am afraid to say that I would like "un-touristic," which of course seems sort of self-hating. But to ask for something "un-touristic," is not to say I need a place without foreigners or tourists, but clearly some places become so infected with tourists and guidebooks that their character changes.

Enough about me, let's talk more about..me. Where are the top places I can go to try French meat (open in August)? Is French beef grain-fed or grass-fed? Is it marbled? In Spain (I was there in March), they serve grass-fed beef that is clearly un-marbled and they make a big deal about which animal the beef comes from, not the breed of cow (ox, steer, etc vs Holstein, Wagyu, etc). I certainly did not master the possiblities, but the meat definitely tasted different and I really liked it because after a steak dinner I did not have that sick feeling I get after an American steak, due to all the fat.

Thank you so much for your detailed suggestions. Michelin is in the mail and I will definitely take your suggestions when it arrives. Just to be clear, I am not "opposed" to fine dining philosophically. My wife and I are just comfortable with what we enjoy. I guess we are the "NASCAR" or "WWF" crowd of the foodie world!

1) Stella, Jenny, or Lorraine do not qualify as "one grand brasserie"? What about Flandrin? 2) Jean is over $100/person, where does it place in the scheme of "regional or product-driven restaurants open in August," a tall order I know. I am without a steakhouse, not to say that this is essential, but everyone's favorite Severo is closed in August and Boeuf Couronne is really far from the Raphael (or anything), I hardly think it is worth a special trip. Remember, we will only be there for nine days. We can always come back, but that is this trip (I own my own business and getting away is a big affair...).

his is a lot of fun, so don't mind the "over-planning." Here is the list incorporating peoples' suggestions: Brasserie Stella 133 avenue Victor Hugo 75016 56905600 Bistrot du Dôme 1 rue Delambre 75014 43353200 L'Auberge Aveyronnaise 40 rue Gabriel Lame 75012 43401224 Garnier 111 rue Saint Lazare 75008 43875040 Brasserie Lorraine 2-4 place des Ternes 75008 56212200 Les Fables de la Fontaine 131 rue Saint-Dominique 75007 44183755 Brasserie ma Bourgogne 19 Place des Vosges 75004 42784464 Chez Jenny 39 boulevard du Temple 75003 44543900 A Casaluna 4 rue Beaujolais 75001 42600511 I am using the suggestions made in this thread and also the most recent Pudlo. Gault, Lebay and Michelin are in the mail. We will be staying at the Raphael, so I have heavily favored restaurants in proximity. I am particularly eager to get rid of any restaurants that are touristic so have at it.

I went to Parc for the second time, with my wife, tonight, and we hated it. For one, it is extraordinarily noisy, easiest the noisiest restaurant I have been to in Philly. I had the steak au poivre. While the meat was fine and cooked the way I ordered it (and quick), the preparation was easily the worst I have ever tasted. My wife's bouillabaisse was also terribly salty and really not at all appetizing, though its seafood looked okay. I cannot recall what I had the last time I went there but I did not like that either (that was shortly after its opening). Its bar is quite a scene, which I guess might be a good thing for some people. So I am sorry, but I just do not like it.

This is very helpful: can you be more specific about the sub-par brasseries on my list besides Lipp? What has the Flo-ification of the brasseries done to their character or quality?

I think I love the idea of a brasserie, but given that I have not been in one in my recollection, feel free to set me straight. Can you suggest better brasseries? Or brasseries where I will be better treated? I find hard to believe that in such a cosmopolitan city as Paris I would be treated badly because I speak French with an accent...I remember thinking I had been mistreated by Parisians when I was in my twenties, but I think I was way too sensitive.

Thanks for the detailed reply: what is Desnoyer? Taking out those restos closed during the dates we will be in Paris (August 9-18), I have: Chez Georges 273 bd Pereire Sud 75017 45743100 Afaria 15 rue Desnouettes 48561536 Bistrot du Dôme 1 rue Delambre 75014 43353200 L'Auberge Aveyronnaise 40 rue Gabriel-Lame 43401224 Brasserie Lipp, 151 bd St-Germain, 75006 45485391 Le Balzar 49 rue des Ecoles, 75005 43541367 Bofinger 5-7 rue de la Bastille, 75004 42728782 Brasserie ma Bourgogne 19 Place des Vosges, 75004 42784464 A Casaluna 4-6 rue de Beaujolais 42600511 Again, my wife and I would prefer product-driven and regional restos. Neither of us I am pretty sure wants to dine in one of the super-expensive restaurants dedicated to haute cuisine, not just because of cost (though who does eat at Tour d'Argent with a menu at 300 euros/person?), but because whether in our native Philly or Europe, we just don't enjoy them. I composed this list from a variety of sources, though the only real authoritative guide I have consulted until now is Pudlo. Michelin is coming (supposedly).

My wife and I will travel to Paris August 8-18. I don't know Paris well and I have not been there in a long time. We have not figured out where to stay but have targeted the Raphael or the Lancaster. Neither of us favors haute cuisine such as that served at Taillevent and furthermore we want to spend much less than 75 euros/person (neither of us drinks much). We prefer rustic product-driven restaurants (like Severo, which is closed in August), also regional food, which is very difficult to get in the USA. So I ask, what are people's recs for places specializing in French regional cuisine. An old review in the Guardian recommended Ma Bourgogne for instance, Pudlo does not give it even one plate (or whatever those little things are). I have read about Au Boeuf Curonne, Garnier, and Bistro du Dome (all product driven restaurants). What about regional (feel free to add thoughts about steakhouses/seafood places)?

I still don't know what "concerns" you refer to, perhaps you have me confused with someone else? Mano, still ad hominem and not ad "food-em".

Hmmm, Mano, I detect something vaguely ad hominem in your posts, and I am not sure why you would reveal frustration in so benign a discussion. But I am glad you are tracking my involvement in other fora, I did not know my posts were so interesting...

And yet, none of these is a high-end seafood place, except perhaps Little Fish. I long for a restaurant like the beautiful Combaro my wife and tried in Madrid, and the pulpo a la galago we had there and in lots of other resturants, that we enjoyed so much!

Going to a high-end seafood place in Philly is not easy, as others have remarked.

Disheartened by our Devon experience last week, I took my wife to Oceanaire. We sat at he bar, which was a less glum experience than exile to their tables. I had 12 perfectly shucked oysters. I never knew there were degrees of excellence in shucking until my dismal Devon visit. Unfortunately, everything else was lousy, food, service. What is wrong with me?

My wife and I went two weeks ago, we were freezing and just could not get comfortable. I have to admit, all my other remarks have to be taken in light of this, we might have had a different impression had we been warm enough. We complained at least three times about this to the bartenders (we ate at the upstairs bar), without result. We thought our steak undercooked. That said, it was a fine piece of meat and it was prepared (“Cajun style”) exactly how I requested it, and the preparation was tasty. The service was warm but clumsy. And the bar was a scene, and not the good kind. I have to admit, my curiosity was piqued by the spectacular seafood offerings (which I did not try).

I used to love Devon. Its service was excellent, the food was very good, and it seemed to fill a niche for a seafood restaurant that Oceanaire does not with its location, disappointing service and even more disappointing food (experienced on several visits and across multple dishes). Last night I went with my wife after a failed attempt to get into Parc without a reservation. I thought the food was mediocre, service was abysmal (though friendly) and atmosphere had taken a dive. The music was very Old City and not at all Rittenhouse Square. The crowd was wearing sweatpants and beepers. Did I have a bad night or get a bad seat, or was I in a bad mood? Did I overate Devon all these years (say, back to 2000)?

Fond memories of our sojourn to Madrid.....can anyone list the "traditional" tapas? Also, when is the best time to arrive at a tapas place? Finally, what is the general opinion of then traditional restaurants Casa Lucio, Lhardy, El Lando, Jockey, and Horcher?

I think you stole my seat at Txirimiri! Isn't that place crazy? I am so sorry we did not have more time to try all their dishes, what you had looked great. We had the ox steak for two which was so tasty, I know the meat was not the best quality but the preparation was perhaps the best I have ever tasted. What a lovely city! I wish I could have stayed longer (and so does my wife). Next time O'Pazo and I have got to figure out what the traditional tapas are, so I can start with them and work my way through. And why was Spanish beer always more chilled than American beer?

Well, we are back in the US and recovering from jet lag. We absolutely loved Madrid and its food. Even if we ate at "second tier" places we were very happy. I actually posted lists of proposed restaurants in advance of this thread and I had few or no replies. The only dust-up occurred after the fact. By saying I "ate somewhere," I am not saying that I endorse that place or recommend it. I just ate there. I am not a partisan of any place I tried except Combarro, which was so beautiful and elegant I cannot wait to return there. In any event, we loved the tapas "lifestyle," the late hours of the formal restaurants less so. The Ritz had the finest service of any hotel I have ever stayed in, the room we stayed in was old and delapidated in some ways, so one has to judge for one's self. A fabulous trip, I know my wife can't wait to go to Barcelona. When I post requests for advice, hopefully people will answer before we go!

Vis a vis my not knowing what this or that fish tastes like, what I meant is simple: I know well what sole or turbot taste like. I know what octupus tastes like, But Combarro was held out to be something better than just fresh seafood, so I guess I was looking for the flashes of greatness that would mark Combarro as above just a seafood restaurant. I thought the octopus was there, but the Galician pie and turbot were merely good. The turbot I thought was a particularly abbreviated presentation. Same for Valenciana, Cervantes, tonight Xentes (sic?), Donostiarra, Txirimiri. Everything we had was good and in every way superior to comparable plates in our native Philadelphia. I was just looking for greatness, which might have been too much to ask. So far as trusting this board more than the concierge, that is a rather black-or-hite way of seeing it, but I spent a lot of time reviewing remarks on this board (Verna I think you made some flattering remarks about a restaurant very similar to Donesteria, Txistu). I am not sure how are choice of restaurants was odd. We followed our taste: we do not like grand cuisine in general. We had only 8 days and both of us became sick for 3 days with colds. We had an excellent impression of Madrid. We stayed in the Ritz and enjoyed it. We bought shirts at Burgos and shoes at Carmina. We will return...if we are permitted to!

Well, at least I got Combarro right! I hope you will give me more than eight days before I am expelled from Spain and forbidden from appreciating its riches! That is really harsh if you are serious...

Wherever I got "my list," also contained Imanol and Ansorena. My concierge just ended up steering me to the asador we chose. So far as the other places, Valencia was touted on Chowhound by numerous posters and was immediately recognized by the young women we met this evening, for example. Of course, posters in this thread don;t think I can get good paella outside Valencia. Cervantes and Txirimiri were both recommended in the NYTimes and on Chowhound. Besides O'Pazo, are there are any other seafood restaurants you would endorse? Rafa? You seem to be rather harsh towards restaurants that a lot of people have enjoyed. Plus, we only have eight days so I am not sure our expectations (that we would eat in the very best restaurant every night) can be that inflated.