AdamLawrence

I don't see any particular reason to quibble with the basic thesis that British food culture atrophied and decayed (is that tautology? It's Friday afternoon and I'm too tired to think about it) because the masses were forced off the land into either urban slums or wage slavery on large farms with no real access to the land and its bounty because of enclosure. Steve's 'why did they stand for it' question is another matter entirely. What you're essentially asking is the basic question of British political history - why have we never cast off our ruling class? Now, if someone wants to fund me to write a thesis on this topic, I will gladly oblige - I've always fancied doing a D.Phil. Failing that I recommend you read Burke's _Reflections on the Revolution in France_ for an explanation of why the British ruling class has proved so enduring. But it can't be answered simply, and so I resign from this thread in favour of a couple of pints and a bottle of something red over dinner with my wife

Steve P: the 'democracy' at the time just wasn't. Even after the 1832 Reform Act only 2 per cent of the UK adult population had the vote (before 1832, the percentage is almost impossible to calculate because there was no common national franchise qualification). It's only after the 1884 (or was it 1885) Third Reform Act that Britain got anywhere near universal male suffrage. And women, of course, didn't have the vote until after the first world war. Britain had no real pretentions towards democracy at this time.

Actually I would normally order bottled water because I prefer fizzy water with a meal (as long as it's not bloody Badoit, bleurghhh). But you're right, a really good restaurant shouldn't show any negative reaction to an order like that. Adam

Tap water is not an uncommon request, especially in informal places. 'Une carafe d'eau, SVP' is the usual form. I might feel a bit odd about ordering tap water at a posh place though. Mainly because, well... if you're prepared to pay their prices for your dinner, why would you quibble about a bottle of Perrier or Evian? Tipping: I echo Fat Guy's comments - since only one person has said he'd usually tip, I don't see how you can say there's 'agreement' that tipping is usual. I have tipped quite generously in the past, but I wouldn't do it now unless I had a very special reason to.

Adam B wrote: "Struth mate, that's 'xactly the kind of Fish 'n' Chips I'm thinkin' 'bout. Blue cod (Blue eyed cod, Blue eye?) is a great fish, nice big juicy flakes of fish. I bet that was all you culd think about during your holiday, that and seals." Well, there was a whale or two as well. And some rain. Oddly I think the best food of the trip was some venison (they have an odd name for it in NZ that I've forgotten) in a vaguely Spanish influenced place in Queenstown. Adam

Adam B said: "I had never said "G'day mate" until moving to the UK, then I was forced to say it so that ignorant British types didn't mistake me for a South African or (God preserve) a New Zealander!" S'alright Adam, you'd have been spotted as soon as you started opining on fish and chips, or 'fush and chups', as you'd have said had you been a Kiwi. Actually I had the best fish and chips of my life in New Zealand. Blue cod and chips, chosen from what was effectively a wet fish counter, fried to order and eaten overlooking the seal colony a few miles north of Kaikoura. I was on honeymoon too. Yes, the ambience may possibly have coloured the memory ;-) Adam

Steve S - that would be kind. I don't have the P Wells book, and you're right; I should get it. cheers

Steves S&P - thanks for the info. I haven't really thought about where else we might eat as yet, as I've never been to Alsace and I'm more focused on the wine touring. Did find a nice-looking little hotel in Illhaeusern on the Logis de France web site though. Any more info on Cerf? Robert - must confess I know nothing at all L'Arnsbourg. I'll have to investigate. But we won't be going till summer anyway, so I'm afraid any information will be a while coming ;-) Thanks all Adam

Anyone been recently? Any particular thoughts? (might be headed that way shortly). cheers Adam

Fatus (I like that name) said: "But before then, what do you think all those people with the crowns and robes and titles were? A different kind of class consciousness, sure, I can buy that -- but no class consciousness prior to the 19th Century? Maybe this is just a question of semantics, but you'd have to define class consciousness in a counterintuitive way to support the proposition that it sprung up out of nowhere less than 200 years ago." I don't think it's a question of semantics at all. Class-consciousness can't - for me - relate to anything other than socio-economic circumstances. I think Jon T's point (and I agree with him, though on much less evidence, 'cause I read PPE) is that social bonds pre the C19th were about other things. Sure the folks with crowns and robes and titles existed but existence and consciousness are two very different things. My impression is that (except for groups such as craft guilds, and they were urban so not reflective of society as a whole, which was largely rural) British society pre the Industrial Revolution was more about local ties - peasants to lord, and vice versa. This isn't to say that the lords were all paternalistic caring sharing types who defended their tenants' interests against those of their own class (far from it), but certainly there was a situation where rural peasants identified more with their local 'betters' than with their apparent peers from the next estate/county/whatever. There remains a strong undercurrent of localise deference in this country, especially in rural areas. It's much less strong that it was, but it's still there. Adam

Steve P said: "Clearly the enclosure rules were instigated by industrialists who wanted to build factories." Nononononono. The enclosure movement - which basically peaked in the early years of the C19th - was driven by the landowning classes. It is analagous to the Highland Clearances in Scotland: landowners didn't want peasants on their land, because it didn't make enough money for them. My opinion is that this came to a head because the new industrial classes were making so much money that the aristocracy saw them as a threat and felt a need to keep up. But there is another crucial reason. All the talk about WWs 1 and 2 has obscured another period of strife in European history - the Napoleonic wars. At the end of the C18th and the start of the C19th (as the country was starting to industrialise) Britain was under threat from Napoleon's France. And enclosure was seen as a way to generate more food in time of war. War is a huge cause of social change.

White Shield: a truly classic drink. Best of all, it's one of the few beers that has (eventually) benefitted from all the shenanigans in the UK brewing industry. After journeying round several UK breweries, production of White Shield is back where it belongs, in Burton (it's now being brewed at the Bass Museum). I haven't had White Shield for a while, but strongly recommend it. Even before the recent explosion of bottle-conditioned beers, White Shield stood out as a fantastic drink.

Matthew, I think the problem with a flat-rate mark-up is that it makes cheap bottles unrealistically expensive. I think the ideal is some kind of mixed system - say twice wholesale plus a fiver (or whatever, I haven't done any calculations to see whether that would work). Of course, the ideal, in terms of transparency, would be for restaurants not to price food as a loss-leader, but that's a prisoner's dilemma. Adam

Italian pizza pasta joint, one has recently (last three weeks) opened up in Oxford. Called in last night for a quick pizza. Pretty good, all things considered. Open kitchen revealed wood oven. Good olives, OK bruschetta, horrible Valpolicella (much too warm), good pizza (nice prosciutto, good quality anchovies), excellent espresso (best for some time). I was pleasantly surprised. Nice room too. Waiter says they're owned by the same company as Ask, at which I've only eaten once and by which I wasn't impressed. Adam

300 per cent mark-up I could live with, although I would vastly prefer some sort of sliding scale that means you get a better deal on more expensive bottles. It's all very well to say a £3 bottle sells for £9. But if a £20 bottle sells for £60, that's rather more painful. And drinking decent claret or burgundy in a restaurant becomes completely impossible for anyone who isn't an investment banker. But it isn't a 300 per cent mark-up in so many places. If we go back to my experience at Midsummer House in Cambridge, a bottle which is available RETAIL for £12 cost me £57. Now, the resto will NOT have paid retail price. That bottle will probably have cost them no more than £8. That's a 700 per cent mark-up, and it's totally outrageous. Shouldn't this thread be on the wine board?

Tony - I have some Yarra Yering Dry Red No. 2 that I'll open on that day and think of you ;-) Adam

Cabrales - the burgundy tasting is tonight as it happens, starting at 1700 and running through to 2000. I believe it's sold out, but if you can get to Oxford this evening you could ring the merchant (Andrew Chapman Fine Wines, www.surf4wine.co.uk) and find out. I think it may no longer have the Chambertin though - I'm going to take it up with him if it's not there..... There are some Gevrey 1er crus though, so it won't be a wasted night. Adam

Simon You could try this one - I keep meaning to cook it but haven't yet, so I can't vouch for the recipe. Chocolate Mousse Cake: http://www.croque-en-bouche.co.uk/page11.html Adam

Tony - I hadn't seen the Gauntley's price, but it doesn't surprise me. And remember the restaurant won't have paid those prices - they'll get a wholesale rate. Wine pricing in restaurants is, in general, completely outrageous. End of story. I hear Ransome's Dock is rather more progressive in its pricing policy. And, as my review below points out, Croque-en-Bouche in Malvern is an oasis of good sense.

Saturday lunch at Midsummer House, touted as Cambridge’s best restaurant, and the recent recipient of a Michelin star. Nice building – a small Victorian house on the riverbank and Midsummer Common, from which it takes its name. Arriving, we were ushered straight to our table, set into a bay window overlooking the common. The sun (which disappeared twice to be replaced with snow and hail flurries during lunch) was shining straight in through the window – the wait staff noticed this during pudding and offered to lower the blinds. Should this have been done earlier? Three courses from the carte run £42 with some supplements. We opted for the better value to be found in the set lunch menu – £20 for three courses, fifteen quid for two. Two choices for both starter and main, cheese or pudding offered to follow. Only one pudding option was offered, which I thought a little spartan. The pleasant and attentive (and mainly French) front of house staff took our food and wine orders, and we were then greeted with the sight of the sommelier scuttling past the window through the snow. It turns out the access to the wine cellar is from outside. We felt guilty. Briefly. Amuse-bouche was a cucumber and lime sour, similar to the green tea and lime version offered at the Fat Duck. Not, I think, as good, though: proposed as a palate cleanser it had, for me at least, the opposite effect, the flavour of cucumber (of which I’m not fond) lingered throughout the meal. Starter was either a frothy soup of haricots blancs with crispy mushroom slices and a slick of truffle oil (my choice) or a pressed terrine of smoked salmon and fresh anchovy with avocado ice-cream (picked by my two companions). The soup was excellent, if orthodox (though the froth didn’t last), but the terrine was terrific, the salty anchovy cutting through the oiliness of the salmon, and the creamy avocado flavour contributing well. Mains were either a pot-roast chicken breast served on the bone with a veloute of foie gras, creamed pearl barley, glazed baby leeks and salsify (chosen by Lucy and Andrew) or roast fillet of cod with braised choucroute, pommes vapeur (which I think means steamed potatoes!), a potato rosti disc and a red wine sauce (my selection). The chicken was beautifully cooked but on the bland side, but the barley was excellent and the veloute quite delicious. The cod didn’t quite work; although the fish was superb, just cooked through yet with a blistered crust, and the heavily reduced sauce’s only flaw was its sparseness. The potato rosti, however, was too greasy, and the choucroute, to my taste, was intrusive in its vinegariness. Shame. With these two courses we drank Riesling Reserve 1995, domaine Trimbach, which was magnificent but, after last week’s great value wine extravaganza at Croque-en-Bouche in Malvern (see post below) outrageously expensive at £57. This reflected the wine list as a whole; lots of good bottles but at horrible mark-ups. Probably not out of the ordinary in a restaurant of this kind, but my eyes watered. Cheese was served with toasted Poilane, a currant bread, wheat biscuits and red wine jelly, and included Reblochon, Ragstone goat’s cheese and Bleu d’Auvergne, in good but not outstanding condition. The set menu didn’t provide access to the whole of the cheese cart, but rather saw them bring a plate of preselected cheeses. I thought this a bit prissy, but probably wouldn’t have worried if they’d explained it in advance. The sole pudding option was – for me – the highlight of the meal; a faultless pistachio souffle, served with pistachio ice-cream and crème anglaise. I had a glass of a sweet Bordeaux (not Sauternes but of that ilk - I think it may have been Barsac) with my souffle, and very good it was too. Espresso wasn’t up to scratch, especially at four quid a shot. This review probably reads more negatively than I had intended. We had a highly enjoyable meal, and the company was first-rate, but a total bill of £180 for a set lunch for three (including ‘optional’ 12.5 per cent service) was, I think, just too damned expensive. The carte looked, inevitably, more interesting, but would have seen the bill rise in excess of £80 per head. I think that’s too much.

My biggest hosting disasters relate to equipment failure. One time when we had guests on a Saturday evening I returned from work Friday to find that the gas company had been round in response to someone smelling gas from our pipes and cut the gas off pending repair. As we had a dual-fuel cooker (gas rings, electric oven) this wasn't a complete disaster, but creating a dinner menu that could be entirely cooked in the oven was fun. Ironically the next story is entirely the other way round. My parents visited us last summer, and I was cooking your classic English sunday lunch; roast beef, Yorkshire pudding et al. I noticed after a while that the joint wasn't showing any significant signs of cooking. After further investigation it was clear that the oven had packed up and wasn't getting any hotter than about 60 degC (the engineer called in later told us that the heating element had probably been corroded by the direct application of oven cleaner - now there's a cautionary tale!). I'm afraid that I was a broken man; fortunately my mother is made of stronger stuff and took over, cutting the rib of beef into steaks and pan-frying them, and sauteeing the potatoes (even she couldn't salvage the Yorkshire puds). Copious application of red wine deadened the pain. And finally, also involving my parents, we have the Great Birthday Dinner Disaster (actually a lunch, but it doesn't quite have the same consonance). Mum and Dad, my sister and her SO were visiting for my birthday a couple of years ago. The squeamish should probably stop here. Unfortunately, the day they arrived, our drains decided to block up. Foul effluent was backed up behind the blockage, rendering the back garden well and truly out of bounds. An early-morning call to Pronto-Rod saw them promising to be with us within the hour; at half-past one, just before I put the roast goose on the table, the rodder showed up. "I can't clear this with rods; it'll have to be the high-pressure water jet," says he. So, as we sit down to our goose, Mr Pronto-Rod is blasting away at the blockage. Thank God, the dining room doesn't look over the back garden. After this, the issues of finicky eaters seem less problematic every day. Though I didn't particular enjoy the dinner party where a combination of dislikes prevented me from serving pork, lamb, fish, beef and anything that wasn't 'good plain food'. Adam

Wow - either that guest was incredibly rude by nature, or your household must be phenomenally relaxed if she felt that sort of behaviour was acceptable. I find quite the opposite problem when we have guests. I am a pretty good cook who sometimes overreaches himself, but I don't have a great regard for my own cooking (I reckon I'm really, really pleased with about one dish in 20). And I find it very frustrating when I put food that I'm not totally happy with on the table and everyone raves about it. There's only one of our friends who I can rely on to be objective - and I don't think it's any coincidence that she's quite a serious cook. Last weekend we had friends down from Edinburgh for supper. Our vegetable box had included beetroot, which I don't like much, so I thought I'd make borscht and follow it with beef stroganoff. I got as far as pureeing the soup before the sickly beetroot aroma overcame me, and I just had to chuck it out. The replacement starter - a red onion and taleggio puff pastry tart - was fine, but I wasn't happy with the stroganoff at all. Yet - the usual reaction - fab, lovely, thanks etc etc. I think it's fine that guests should show some gratitude for one's efforts - but personally, I'd appreciate a bit more honesty. (But that doesn't go as far as making Bleurrrghggghhhh noises because they don't like the pheasant!)

(for non-Molesworthphiles) a chiz is a swiz or a swindle as any fule kno.

I don't really buy the supermarket buying power argument in this context. Clearly they do have great buying power, but that doesn't translate to cheaper grog, well, not usually. Take one example: Sainsburys have A Mano Primitivo (which is excellent - Primitivo is what the Italians call Zinfandel) for £6.99; I can get it from my local independent for six quid. Tony's Turckheim collective example goes counter to that, but to me this just shows that sometimes a supermarket will be cheaper, sometimes an independent will. Plus I have ideological and environmental objections to supermarkets and try to keep my use of them to a minimum (not always successfully).

Waitrose. By a country mile. Their 'Inner Cellar' selection is pretty good, and their normal wines are not bad either. But I have basically stopped buying wines from supermarkets, because I find a more interesting choice of stuff from independent wine merchants, and the prices are pretty much comparable. Sometimes the independents are cheaper. And by developing a relationship with a good independent you get recommendations, snippets of information and often invitations to tastings. Example: my local wine merchant is holding a tasting next week at which the centrepiece is a colheita (single-vintage tawny) port from 1863!!!!!!!! Sadly I can't go, but I am going to the Burgundy tasting the week after, which will feature a Chambertin vertical. I can't afford Chambertin, but it's interesting to try it. At Waitrose (and I stress they are the best) the guidance at the in-store tastings amounts to 'this is Australian' and 'this is from Chile'. Find a good independent. You won't regret it. Adam