therese
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So, a story.
This was about a year ago. I was the organizer for a local conference, and the speakers were all colleagues. At the end of the conference I invited everybody to dinner (along with spouses) as a thank you. [An aside: The whole issue of whether this sort of meal can be considered a thank you or an obligation is a sticky one, I think, and I'm careful to let the speakers know that they're under no obligation to attend. This is the third year we've done it now, though, and not only do the speakers come, but they ask me in advance whether we'll be having the dinner and where so that their wives will know what to wear. So they don't seem to mind in this instance.]
I'd picked the restaurant well in advance, and know the chef and had asked for a particular table (tables, really). Total guests 20-odd, so I asked the chef if he'd prefer to do a set menu, but he was fine with just ordering normally (which I also prefer). So, there we all were, happy after a successful conference and looking over the menu while we sipped before dinner drinks. I ordered wine (perfectly nice wine, too---the manager and wine director at this place had a very nice list and I chose a white and a red) which arrived while we were placing our orders, and then I noticed a waiter carry another bottle of wine towards the other end of the table.
Turned out that one of the speakers had taken it upon himself to order additional wine, more expensive (though not incredibly so) and just a bottle for his end of the table. Despite my being at the other end of the table I managed to keep this bottle from being opened, and made it very clear that I was the alpha dog at the table and would be making those decisions, thank you very much.
The speaker in question is a colleague that I've known for a long time: he's much older than me, but I'm clearly senior in rank and was also clearly the host for the dinner. He'd somehow assumed that the rules (such as they are) that seem to govern sales rep dinners (he attends a lot of sales rep sponsored dinners and meetings) had nothing whatsoever to do with the present evening. That I'm female might have led him to try and exploit the situation a bit as well.
Anyway, lovely dinner. This year's was also lovely. Unfortunately he was unable to attend, as I didn't invite him to speak.
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Okay, having started this thread I need to go ahead and contribute.
I end up eating out for work pretty frequently, in lots of different contexts.
Right now I'm recruiting for a position in my division, so have been out to five different places in an many weeks with candidates we've invited to interview. I get to pick the restaurant and I get to pick the other guests at dinner from among my colleagues: fortunately I've got some very pleasant co-workers and so know that they'll be good dinner companions no matter what.
I've been invited to look at a job in another city later this month, and so I'll officially be wined and dined four times over the course of that visit. These meals are really interviews, of course---I'm interviewing them while they interview me, so everybody's generally very pleasant, and I already know some of them in any case.
I also do lots of work dinners when traveling to meetings in the U.S. and abroad. These are a combination of work and pleasure, and generally everybody picks up his/her own tab, or the entire tab is picked up by the meeting organizer. Sometimes this is in the person of a vendor or commercial meeting sponsor, but more frequently it's the head of the organizing committee or whatever (who later submits the bill for reimbursement---I'm often this person). Sometimes the meal's arranged ahead of time and catered. More about that later.
The sort of dinner that I rarely attend is the sort that NYC Mike describes with such eloquence:
Expense account dining on the sales rep seems to bring out the absolute worst in people. The food is usually fantastic, the best available in some cases. It is the company that rots, its the guy who chews with his mouth open with food flying everywhere, the one who tells inappropriate jokes and expects the whole table to laugh out loud all night, the ones who buy the 2nd and 3rd bottle of +$100 wine or the one who orders a to-go meal for someone not at the table.I've have, very occasionally, had to endure meals like this. I'm not sure if it's the expense account itself, or just the fact that a certain sort of person really really wants somebody else to buy him/her dinner and so is more likely to get in on these sorts of evenings. The point of these dinners doesn't seem to be actual work or even a collegial meal among professionals who are all in the same place at the same time for a meeting, but extortion.
And even more unfortunately for me, NYC Mike's not been the one arranging these diners when I'm along, and the food's consequently not usually fantastic, but mostly sort of mediocre (albeit expensive). So like Mike I've gotten pretty wary about these sorts of outings, carefully (if politely) vetting the venue and guest list before accepting the invitation. I've actually left this sort of meal early, pleading a headache or an early morning the next day, something that might seem unbelievably rude were it not for the fact that there's nothing the least bit polite about the evening in the first place.
I do know some very pleasant reps with whom I'm happy to dine when traveling, but prefer the sorts of restaurants that aren't designed for expense accounts, and insist on talking about work for at least some of the meal. Not hard, of course, because it's what we've got in common.
I've been trying to watch how much I chew with my mouth open, too.
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Vent here. Pet peeves, particularly bad meals, etc.
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How about this question, yah know how they say don't order filet well done because they give you crappy cuts and don't order fish on Monday cause it's leftover from the weekend or something??? So the regularity in which consumers receive awful meals when they are being hosted/treated by someone else--think that's a similar factor???? Think it's on purpose??? Or just random. Both probably huh.
I think it's because the people doing the hosting pick some pretty crappy restaurants.
Oh no, they would notice, they would comment if you didn't eat your food, this is not an interview, this is business. I mean you don't have to 'clean your plate' but I mean we get several appetizers & pass & share, then the entrees arrive, mine late of course blahblahblahSince Pan was actually being interviewed they likely wouldn't have noticed if he hadn't really put much of a dent in his salmon.
And if you're dining with colleagues who know you well enough to comment on whether or not you're eating then they know you well enough for you to tell them that you had a big lunch or have been watching your diet or whatever.
And boy, do I ever hate that "get several appetizers and pass and share" idea. Servers always seem to suggest that option for work dinners and I pretty much always look them straight in the eye and tell them that hell will freeze over before I seriously consider that option. Well, I don't put it in those terms, but they get the idea.
Of course if somebody else is hosting the meal then I just smile patiently. I rarely eat very much of that course, as it's generally various sorts of battered and deep fried bleah, and I've never had anybody comment on my not eating enough.
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I generally don't leave the table when a course is in front of me...
That beeper comes in handy. One of the things about work dinners is that it's not unexpected that you might be contacted by work. And of course you'd never be so gauche as to have your phone or beeper set to an audible ring, and you'd also never be so gauche as to answer the call or page in hearing range of anybody else.
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I recently got a salmon dish at a business dinner (part of an interview for a job). It was a bit fishy. If I had been with friends, I probably would have sent it back. In that context, I ate the whole thing and did not make any kind of negative comment about the meal. If the fish had been really bad instead of a bit fishy and kind of borderline, I'm not sure what I would have done.
You can always just move it around a bit on your plate and eat the side dishes and bread to keep hunger at bay. If anybody notices (and they're unlikely to, as they're interviewing you rather than paying attention to your plate) you can say that you had a big or late lunch (assuming you're not eating with the same people). And if others are ordering dessert that will be another opportunity to get ingest some more calories.
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We had dinner at South City Kitchen. I should have come to eGullet before going here, I bet not many of you eat here! This meal was not good at all but surprising enough the place was packed tight with people waiting to be seated.
Yep. South City Kitchen's been around for years, and is part of a restaurant group that's historically been pretty good (including Food Studio and La Tavola) but has been a bit uneven of late. That said, South City Kitchen's my least favorite of the group. Except that I've not been there in at least five years so maybe I just shouldn't talk about it.
Anyway, a lot of the people packing the restaurant were likely from out of town (yes, Mike, I mean you) because visitors to Atlanta always ask for southern food and southern food (to the extent that such a thing can be defined) just isn't really suited to upmarket dining and there aren't many places that serve it so South City can get away to serving bad food to visitors. When Atlantans want southern food they mostly eat at home, or head out to Mary Mac's or the Colonnade.
For upmarket southern I recommend Watershed and, on Sunday night, Restaurant Eugene for the Sunday supper prix fixe.
Thank god for eGullet, after the SCK disaster I got our next and best meal recomendation here. Mary Mac's Tea Room! Now that is grandma's cooking at its best. The fried green tomatoes and newbie on the house potlikker were great. Chicken fried steak with biscuts, gravy, grits and cream corn for me and the smothered pork chops with baked apples, veggies and cornbread for the Mrs. It was the best of each we had ever had. Peach cobbler for dessert was a perfect end to a perfect meal. Mary Mac's is a must see for anyone going to Atlanta.Okay, my grandmother's rolling over in her grave at the idea that restaurant food could ever be as good as home cooking aside, Mary Mac's is pretty good. I'll point out that your meal of chicken fried steak etc. was rather higher than ideal on the carbs, but at least you got the pot likker.
Next time ask here first. Lots of excellent food here in the ATL.
Oh, and don't worry about having missed the Atlanta version of Au Pied de Cochon: it's nothing to do with the Montreal restaurant, but rather belongs to one of the big brasserie chains in Paris. It's located in the Intercontinental and the food on our one visit (admittedly soon after it had opened) sort of sucked. We've not been back, as subsequent reports from friends and acquaintances have not been glowing.
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I've actually been in situations where I had to deal with something that wasn't going quite right, sometimes when I was paying (but didn't want to disturb my guests in any way), sometimes when I wasn't (and certainly didn't want my hosts to realize that things weren't just perfect).
What I do is leave the table under some pretense (cell phone or beeper going off is a good one, potty break second best) and hunt down the server or manager. I explain the problem and explain what remedy needs to be made (cutting down on hemming and hawing all around). I point out that I want the change made without any fuss or explanation to the others at the table, just a smile and a murmer if necessary.
When I return to the table the situation's generally been addressed.
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Headed to Little Rock for work for a few days where I'll be wined and dined, and am wondering what my prospects are. Other are picking the restaurants, but was interested in hearing where you'd take out of town business visitors if you were doing the entertaining.
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...Or maybe it's a jelly donut. I get them mixed up.
Anyway, headed to Berlin in May for short week of combined work and leisure. I'm staying a couple of nights at the Maritim proArte on Friedrichstrasse at Dorotheenstrasse (so a bit to the east of the Tiergarten) and three nights someplace else (probably on the east side of town).
At least one of my dinners is already booked for work, but I'm hoping to have a few out with friends (who are German, but not from Berlin, and other Europeans). Possibly opera one evening (except that I don't know yet which opera house---will check into this), maybe some clubs.
This is my second trip to Berlin and since I loved it the first time around have very high hopes for this trip as well. I'm looking for recommendations for:
1. Restaurants: everyday German and upmarket German. Not particularly interested in ethnic as I eat a lot of different sorts at home.
2. Hotels: I get the impression that the east is better than the west for general cultural stuff, but would be interested in places close to restaurant-dense areas as well. The Intercontinental is offering a good rate on the web, but it seems like it might be just a bit too big and glitzy.
3. Clubs: Places that one doesn't feel out of place over the age of 30. Ballroom dance/waltz actually cool if anybody knows of a place (went to a tea dance, the old-fashioned sort, one Sunday afternoon at the Meistersaal last time). Jazz/blues also good.
Thanks in advance for your help.
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A few years ago, I heard doctors talking about what to give a child recovering from an intestinal illness; they called it the BRAT diet. Bananas, Rice, Applesauce, and Toast. Apparently those four foods are bland and easy to digest. Since I've never been pregnant, I can't help with ideas from personal experience, but maybe one or more of the selections from the BRAT list will work for you. Unfortunately, I have a feeling it will be a trial and error thing. And we all know what the error part means. Just keep looking forward to those cravings!
The point of the BRAT diet is that it's mildy constipating (or is supposed to be) in addition to being very bland. So I wouldn't necessarily pursue it in this instance.
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So far, it's a diet of vitamins, soda crackers and ginger tea......
Plain baked potatoes got me through a lot of meals. Tofu's a good source of protein, and can be used in both sweet and savory preps (or virtually no prep whatsoever, which is great because you are so tired you're likely to fall asleep at the stove).
Note that vitamins can upset your stomach a lot, so make a point of taking them with food (after the meal, in fact).
Don't worry about a bit of weight loss at this point---the baby's not really using appreciable calories and you'll have plenty of time to put on your fat stores and grow an enormous baby later in the pregnancy.
While pregnant with my second child (a daughter) I gained almost no weight the first half of the pregnancy, and was still wearing regular clothes (and small clothes at that) through my fifth month. But by the end of the pregnancy I'd gained the usual 35 lbs and produced a 9 lb 6 oz infant.
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Now you have really piqued my interest!! What is the name of the honey based liqueur? Thanks!
There's a fermented beverage made from honey called chouchen, from Bretagne.
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Vietnamese restaurants in the U.S. offer a lot of "cook it yourself" dishes, either hot pot style or grill/griddle.
Korean BBQ restaurants cook the food at the table, though there's generally some assistance from the server.
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many thanks for everyone's feedback thus far. my companion has a conference at the opryland hotel - which is why we're staying there. i will definitely break away though to try restaurants off site.
Of course your companion has a conference at the hotel---it's the only reaon any sane person ever stays there. My last visit was for a chess tournament for my son, and you really haven't lived until you've been in a hotel with one bajillion geeky little chess kids, or one bajillion hematologists, or one bajillion quilt makers or, well, you get the picture.
It could be worse, though. You could be visiting during Christmas, when it's mobbed by day trippers to see the decorated atria.
Bring alcohol.
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Sounds like a great trip. The restaurants seemed fun and interesting. It's too bad you didn't have time to visit the outer boroughs once. I still think that's where the best NYC ethnic restos are located - especially Italian and Thai.
Outer boroughs the plan for my next visit. Just too much stuff to fit into one week, frankly.
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I'm young at heart.
And a bit perverse: there was something about the ambience that pretty much demanded that I order something low brow, and not even I could bring myself to order a green apple martini (even if it would go great with the color of my eyes). -
Saturday
Our flight home wasn't until 2:00, and I knew that if we could get an early start I'd be able to make a second run at dim sum in Chinatown. My husband wasn't thrilled at the idea of an early start, though, so we just got sandwiches from a place around the corner to eat at the airport. Airport way too warm, but not too bad if you sat really still and thought about England.
Summary
So, all in all a pleasant week. I can be a bit obsessive about planning vacations (and everything else, but that's a story for another day), particularly meals. My husband finds it a bit overwhelming, though, and so this time I didn't do much ahead of time apart from arranging dinners with friends (who picked the restaurants). As the week wore on, though, it became increasingly clear that being obsessive about planning meals is not necessarily a bad thing, and my husband was glad that I was willing to make last minute queries about possible restaurants, and glad that eG participants were so happy to help out.
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Friday
A pan-Asian dining day, starting with Japanese sweets purchased the day before.
Lunch was dim sum in Chinatown at Sweet-n-Tart, a pleasant place that makes the food to order rather than using carts for service.
A brief stop at Teariffic for bubble tea with Pan, and then out to dinner at Aburiya Kinnosuke, a very good and not hellishly expensive Japanese restaurant in midtown.
Brazilian jazz afterwards at Iridium. This place serves food, and I was a bit concerned that we'd be pressured to buy some, but it wasn't an issue. There's a $10 minimum per person, so I ordered one of the house cocktails (for $9.50), as it seemed unlikely that I'd be able to get a sidecar. The cocktail I did order was called something like "Long Island Iced Tea on the Beach," which turns out to mean "Hawaiian Punch with Distilled Spirits."
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Thursday
By Thursday we realized that we'd not visited a single museum, and my husband decided that he wanted to visit the Natural History museum. We walked there through the park, and ate lunch at Barney Greengrass on the strength of a recommendation from our friend at Aburiya Kinnosuke the night before. Loved it.
On the way there I bought some Japanese sweets from a to go counter in front of a restaurant: dorayaki with anko and sliced chestnuts (these were not labeled, just wrapped in plastic, so may have been made there) and daifuku.
Thursday night dinner at Blue Hill at Stone Barns with FabulousFoodBabe and her husband, Captain America. Train ride there and back offset by great meal and very nice visit to the kitchen afterwards.
We did not, for once, go out after dinner.
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Wednesday
Husband was spending the day visiting a colleague at Cornell, so I went shopping after an egg salad sandwich at Starbucks. Better than you'd think, and appropriate sustenance for shopping.
Yet another musical booked for the evening, Avenue Q. So once again we needed a reasonable pre-theater option, and on the basis of Sneakeater's endorsement (after all, he'd been right about Blaue Gans) we chose Tintol. Excellent in every respect.
After the show we ended up at Aburiya Kinnosuke for a drink (an "umeboshi sour" for me) with a friend who'd just finished a meal with a group. We walked him to GCT to catch the last train to Westchester, and headed home.
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Tuesday
After a hearty breakfast of marzipan cherries (for me) and croissant (for husband) we took a long hard look at our day and got back into bed.
Actually, no, we didn't. I got ready from my lunch date with FabulousFoodBabe and he worked on a lecture he'd been invited to give the next day at Cornell.
Lunch was at Tocqueville. Very "ladies who lunch," unless you count the part at the end where the waiter suggested that we follow our lunch with tequila shooters.
We'd booked dinner at Per Se for Tuesday with FabulousFoodBabe, but her husband couldn't make it so we cancelled. We went to Blaue Gans instead, a very different sort of experience and a nice contrast with Tocqueville.
Drinks afterwards at Pegu Club. Sat at the bar. Husband had a Pegu Club cocktail and I had, um, well, I don't recall. I'll think about this and try to recreate it. I do recall telling my husband that I'd left my credit card behind the last time I'd been at Pegu Club, and he was not surprised, given the rate at which I was consuming cocktails.
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Monday
Plans for our evening already set (the musical Chicago---my husband really likes musicals and I like him well enough to humor him in this respesct), we decided to stroll around Greenwich Village. Still chilly but nice enough to want to eat outside. We picked a place with a nice outdoor patio with an awning and were served predictably pedestrian food.
We stopped by Pasticceria Bruno on Bleeker St. for coffee and baci di dama. Pleasant, and we chose our breakfast for the next day, a croissant (or I suppose I should say a cornetto) for husband and marzipan for me. Marzipan's not most people idea of breakfast food, I know, but it looked lovely and I'd already eaten too many sweets.
Dinner at Aquavit was the first to live up to our expectations. Great meal in every respect, and Chicago was also great, with my husband having gotten particularly nice tickets dead center, about five rows back.
After the show we very improbably ended up at a party for a movie premier. Fortunately the drinks were watered down and so the decision to stay out late did not seem like a really terrible one the next AM.
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Sunday
Sunday we'd booked tickets for the matinee of a musical based on Herman Hesse's novel "Siddhartha." We liked it, but apparently the reviewers did not share our opinion, and it closed that day.
Lunch that day was at Maison. I cannot recommend this restaurant, unless perhaps you're pining to listen in on the conversations of visiting and ex-pat French. And then you might just want to stick to alcoholic beverages.
Dinner was at a Japanese restaurant near our hotel (actually in the same building as the Waldorf Astoria) where I'd eaten once before and very much enjoyed it. I'm sorry to say that Inagiku did not live up to its previous record. I do think we'd likely have had a better experience if we'd ordered a la carte, or chosen a higher price point omakase.
Back to our hotel in time to watch the Sopranos.
Entertaining for business
in Food Traditions & Culture
Posted
This year's dinner was in another restaurant. Same circumstances, largely the same crowd, but the restaurant is a much larger one that does a lot of group dinners, enough to actually have a catering manager and various separate rooms that can be used for groups. I'd originally contacted the chef (because I know him) and he'd given me the name of the catering manager because it was a large party.
After a few phone calls in which I explained that I wanted to be seated in the main dining room (Sunday night, so plenty of availability) and order off the regular menu, not a set menu, she faxed me a quote. The quote specified a set menu of various shared appetizers (<shudder>) followed by a choice of any one of the three most boring things on the menu followed by similarly boring desserts. Given that I'd chosen this restaurant specifically because the chef offers particularly inventive food I once again made it very clear that I didn't want to pre-pay for the dinner or limit my guests' choices in any way, and that I'd be happy to pay (well, our employer would be happy to pay) for whatever they chose. The only reason I was talking to her at all was that the party was so large that I didn't want to just show up.
So, weird as it all sounded to her we just all came and had dinner. And it was great.
I'm going to have to come up with something really amazing for next year.