milla

don't put words in my mouth. i NEVER said anything about street food. that is for another thread, one in which I will respectfully disagree with you again if you argue that mediocre ingredient turned into amazing dish magical crap. I thought we were trying to discuss steaks in California as everyone else had been doing until we got the NY is better BS over and over again. I now realize that perhaps we were indeed arguing about nothing. I don't think you really have grasped my point from the beginning, though Bux did right away. I do not think that, in general we have agreed with each other on this thread We are not in NY. We don't have Luger's. Not everyone can shop on the Upper East Side for their beef. This is Cali. Jocko's probably doesn't buy high prime carcasses, what with them being in the heart of small family beef ranches in California, why should they? So does that mean I have given up attempting to finding a good steak or having to invest in a furnace to cook one at home that meets the Lobel's seal of approval? Sounds like it is tough to have any kind of fun with that attitude. Sorry, I don't buy it nor I would guess do alot of people on eGullet-California. I choose to have fun, explore, learn and discuss. And if I have just an ok or mediocre meal, so what? It is part of the learning experience. I mean seriously, fly to NY and eat your steak if that is all you will allow pass your muster, but that is kind of silly. I am going to eat at Jocko's and I will post my experience but other than that I really have no desire to "argue about nothing" anymore either. Cheers

My emphasis above. Do you really think that’s true? I’ll wager you haven’t had a great chicken or just don’t appreciate the different between a good hen and a great one. There’s no way you can roast a an average chicken and have it taste like a great chicken. The best you can do is add extraneous flavor like garlic or herbs. There are posts on the France forum that will attest to the fact that members have had a simple roast chicken in France that made them wonder if they’d ever eaten a real chicken before. Another point about France is that some of the country's best restaurants are in the middle of nowhere. Michel Bras is not even in the middle of two destinations. You have to make a side trip from the road to nowhere. ← agreed on all of the above, well said, and thanks. Tomatoes, oil, salt, balsamic, etc. is not a "moronic" procedure but requires a sense of balance, knowledge and skill acquired through time, diligence and care. A "moron" or a skilled cook with a sense of respect given those same ingredients? Whose dish would you choose to eat? Such as steak. A steakhouse in the middle of nowhere IS a good thing. Jocko's is located in the Santa Maria Valley, literally next door to its beef supplier. Apparently they fire up red oak fires (only at dinner, not at lunch!) and cook the meat slowly. They even prepare whole sweetbreads roasted over the slow fire. It is so different from East Coast, I can't wait to try it.What else do you want for a California steakhouse? You can't take average anything and make it spectacular. It is impossible. Bras? Now there is a steakhouse! Cote du Boeuf d"Aubrac "pur race" anyone? You betchya...

The website at Hiramatsu has just been updated to include the new carte. You can find it here. Hiramatsu

I am quite confident that TK went into NY knowing that ultimately it was ADNY that he would be going up against if there was actually a "battle for NY best". It would not suprise me if he has been there more than once and dining in both Yountville and Per Se I do not think it is going out on a limb that one can say that TK learned alot of lessons watching the Ducasse drama unfold in the press when he (Ducasse) first opened. TK surely understands that when ADNY opened that the bar was raised not only in NY but for the entire States also...

agreed and well said.

Actually you did say something to that effect, as in "anyone with a pulse". I also quote earlier from you "Besides, anyone who believes they can make a steak at home to rival what the top steakhouses are putting out either has a 1500*F+ broiler, prime+ steaks, and a lot of skill - or they are wrong." I am just confused... Great food is ALWAYS quality of ingredients and equal amounts of knowledge and, most importantly, respect for said ingredient whether it is a steakhouse in Cali or some "luxe" Ducasse outpost...but I am getting off my point almost as bad as the topic of this thread that you started... The French Laundry has nothing to do with this thread unless you want to talk about the "calotte" which, ironically, might be the best steak in Cali. Some might say one can drive from in a real big circle in France and not find a restaurant with better food than FL. But that is also beside the point. The point is this thread was about where can you get a good steak in California. And your last posts have suggested you can't and that they all suck here (you gave up finding a good steak) because we don't "have meat like lobel's, steakhouses like luger's", etc. Go to friggin' NY then or at least start another thread. I feel uncomfortable saying anything negative about any restaurant if i have never visited , whether it is "in the sticks or middle of nowhere" and I have to drive there. All i am asking is try it before slamming it... I look forward to telling you the goodbadandugly about it when I get back but one thing is for sure, I will have a great time (and a great drive with my friends) regardless of whether it is as good as Luger's or FL for that matter. cheers

i got that impression from earlier in the thread. this ain't NY, and though one can get the meat at Lobel's, one still has to cook it correctly. that NY steak requires some serious special heat sourcing. besides, i trust my chef/friend who speaks highly of Jocko's and its sense of place, read it is not across the Williamsburg bridge. give it a try before you give up. eat there and then lets discuss... ← It's really not a good sign that the best steak in CA is supposed to be in the middle of nowhere between SF and LA but next next time I'm driving down the coast I'll check it out. It really takes little more than a pulse and a chunk of meat from Lobels to turn out a steak better than any I've had in the SF bay area. ← respectfully disagree. i think it is a great sign. and i hear it is packed. some of the most satisfying places to eat modest or ambitious, can be in the middle of nowhere. in fact, i prefer it that way. and it is also amusing that one would think it only requires a pulse and a "chunk of meat" to make a great steak. it denigrates professionals that actually do make great steak. not to mention the meat with an attitude like that i still stand behind the opinion of the person who has tons of experience and knowledge who has actually been there to someone who denigrates and has not... you might be right but you will never know until you go. eat there and then lets hear your opinion...

i got that impression from you earlier in the thread. this ain't NY, and though one can get the meat at Lobel's, one still has to cook it correctly. and i wouldn't trust many people with that... that NY steak requires some serious special heat . besides, i trust my chef/friend who speaks highly of Jocko's and appreciates where it is at, read not a short drive/subway across the Williamsburg bridge. he is a NYer, knows lobel's, luger's (my personal favorite), likes wolfgang's blah, blah, and yet adores Jocko's for what it is... i am giving it a try on his recommendation. maybe you should give it a try before you give up. eat there and then lets discuss...

"Meat" road trip early next week. Some tri-tip sandwich joint/grocery in hollister for lunch and then to Jocko's in Nipomo to see what all the fuss is about...

Fugu is the spring time... Dining at Urasawa first week of November with friends. quite excited...

Santa Cruz Diner Bouchon Bakery Hog Island Oyster Company ( 2 sacks of 50ea. pieces for the two fo us)

FG, Did you get a post dessert at your meal? It was the first time i ever had that when I was there and I thought it was a great idea. Pre-desserts are no longer thoughtful. Thank you for the report.

Really nice, I have a couple of the models that are on eBay and they work great. i did not buy them on eBay though. they are cool...

No special equipment required. However, I have neither used nor seen a special “lab water bath” as you stated, it may provide the ultimate control in regards to temperature. We have been highly successful with a conventional range and an electronic thermometer. We even used a food saver at Trio until we could afford a commercial machine to vacuum the bags. We feel that induction heat sources are the most accurate and economical type for the sous vide cooking we do. They provide very consistent, low maintenance temperature control. Depending on what you are cooking, and the desired effect, determines the temperature range you must keep the ingredients in. For proteins we are within 2 degrees of the determined temperature. It is amazing the difference between 136-138-140 degree lamb when cooking in this manner. The fact that the entire piece of protein is the target temperature leaves little room for error. In other words if you are sautéing and finishing a piece of meat in the oven and you mis-time it a few minutes early the middle will be rare…but graduating out from the center you will find medium-rare, medium, medium well and well. So the rare in the middle becomes less obvious. If you mis-temp during sous-vide by a few degrees you will be left with the entire piece either chewy rare or protein coagulated medium-well. ← Chef, there was this cool sous-vide thread earlier on eGullet that had a link to an ebay page with medical waterbaths available at a great price. the thread is here: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...st=60&p=741029& i have had great success with the medical baths over the past year (they are very reliable overnight for 24+hour slow cooking) with gentle heat sources and narrow temp ranges that the med industry requires. I think they are worth a look/see. We also have used the on-range technique you described above the with smaller packages/digital thermometer to much satisfaction also. hope that is informative in some way and good luck in January.

Moby, thank you for the thoughtful and well written post. It was great to hear that you had a wonderful time. i agree with you that the size of the menu is somewhat disappointing but then again a table of 4 can cover almost the entire carte! i too, look forward to a return visit but shall wait for a menu change. i thought it was an accurate comment that they are playing things a touch close to the vest right now. we shall see when game and truffle swing in to high gear. thanks again for sharing. i am also interested in hearing about the demo.

where is he going?

Doc, with each an every new post it is becoming clear what an extraordinary trip that you had. thanks again for sharing such a marvellous experience. this last posting has just made me change my itinarary for the spring time...

Santa Cruz... Oswald, Avanti, Soif, Tacos Morenos Watsonville... De La Comena, La Pajaro Food Center, The ceviche truck...

Can't be said better. The best recommendation for "Vacio" by Juan Roca is the sanitation procedures described in the book. I continue to hear stories about City Helath Depts. picking up on the increase of this technique and it is just a matter of time before it will affect all of us in the profession.

I apologize, i did not mean to imply the shrimp was frozen at Can Fabes but was referring to the States. We are indeed lucky here in California to on occasion have fresh spot prawns at the market. Alot of the Salmon fisherman pull up spots in their nets while netting salmon and sell it on the side, especially out of Monterey, Moss Landing and Santa Cruz. I would expect nothing than the freshest, not frozen shrimp at Can Fabes, and considering that country's resources, not as big as an issue as here in the States. Sorry for the confusion.

Glad to hear you had a great experience. Would love to hear the details when you have a chance. it amazes me that the restaurant continues to float below everyone's radar screen considering the quality that goes on.

off subject...almost all amaebi is frozen in this country. you got to have a good connection to find it fresh, akin to a Santa Barbara spot prawn. shiro ebi, the great sushi/sashimi raw shrimp, is very seasonal and only running for 4-6 weeks at the beginning of the summer. it is expensive and doesn't freeze/travel well. Doc, was there a fairly assertive acid or salt element to the shrimp dish that might have taken a touch of the rawness out, like a ceviche?

Nervous nellie I am not...I completely agree with Nathanm with regard to larger commercial food service/packing concerns about sous-vide/cryovac for long term storage. It has been around for a long time, and well researched. They have been controlled by various governments to protect the safety of citizens i.e. supermarket freezers, larger scale institutions, etc. My concern was the home cook or restaurant chef buying a food saver and preparing food that suggests "putting a leg of lamb out on the sidewalk for a couple of hours on a hot day" with predictable results.

A great chef friend of mine whose opinion I respect and credentials rock solid swears that Jocko's is the best piece of steak in California by a wide margin. I have heard rumors about the place for a LONG time. I am driving down in November for a meal to check it out...

So do I. A good part of the Roca Vacio book is about sanitation and inhibiting the bacteria. There are strident rules for preventing bacterial growth in the book that must be followed or anyone who is cooking sous-vide below the danger area is asking for trouble. Not to get hysterical about it, but one must be careful. City health depts. in both NYC and Chicago are being pro-active in clamping down on sous-vide in restaurants with proteins now that it has become a trend (unless they can prove that correct cooling down and sanitation). One cannot just seal and cook at a low temperature without thinking through the prcedure but also garner an understanding of the bacterial nature of these products. That is the single most important aspect of the Vacio book. I have some restaurant friends who are doing rack of lambs at 120F for 3-4 hours and that is asking for trouble if some sort of sanitation and draconian cooling methods are not employed. As a friend of mine, a biology professor at Stanford told me, "if you wanted to grow alot of some really harmful bacteria, seal it in a bag with no oxygen and keep it in a low temp water bath for a long time."