mongo_jones

if it wasn't for the layer of snow in the backyard here in boulder i'd try to grow me some winter squash. i would like to have my own herb-garden--even if in a box--and welcome any tips on how to start one. keep in mind i live in colorado.

Mongo, how did it turn out? it was good but i think i have learned why the one recipe involves two lemons and the other 40 cloves of garlic. it was neither very garlicky nor very lemony--though this changed after i squeezed the cooked lemon all over it. the garlic didn't all soften or brown either--perhaps the lemon got in the way? i've saved some of the par-cooked cloves to experiment with further. the stroke of genius though was rubbing the outside of the bird with balsamic vinegar (both before it went in and twice thereafter). the resulting color as well as a hint of balsamicky goodness on the finished bifd was very nice. i think my next roast bird will combine the balsamic (or other varieties) rub with rosemary and slivers of garlic tucked under the skin. i may leave the cavity alone. we ate last night's bird with mashed potatoes, roasted brussels sprouts and sauteed mushrooms. what are other peoples' recommendations/faves for roast chicken accompaniments?

chris cognac's a police detective? NEVER disagreeing with him or asking him for pork related recipes.

thanks! even better, now that you're in bangalore can you find out what the locals call it? then again given the ban in the u.s possibly the indian wholesalers won't be able to get it at all.

people, i am doing something dangerous. inspired by this thread and unable to choose between two of my usual favorites--40 garlic-clove chicken and chicken with 2 lemons--i have split the difference. i currently have in the oven a chicken stuffed with 20 cloves of garlic and one lemon. oh yes, the chicken has been rubbed inside and out first with a mix of olive oil and balsamic vinegar and then with sea salt and black pepper. i will accept nominations on further atrocities i can commit against this bird in about 15 minutes when i turn it over. hit me! mongo

isn't star anise used as a scenting agent in biryanis and certain marinades in hyderabadi and other muslim cuisines? edited to add: it is certainly sold by the tonne in my local indian store (which seems to cater largely to south indians)--maybe i should ask the store manager what she uses it for. the last time when i tried to see if they had triphal i ended up in a long-distance conversation with the owner (another south indian) and our attempts to identify on the phone what this ingredient that neither of our home-cuisines cooks with might be was something to record.

well, hopefully for the sake of foodies he won't start sporting jimmy johnson style hairdos. your take on it is different from bux's however--you suggest this may be more of a segue to a less physically involving future rather than creative restlessness. i don't have any moral or personal qualms about any of this though--i'm just interested in how all this works, and the kinds of stories that circulate around it. though as i think about it the more he diversifies the greater the chance that there will one day be a thomas keller food brand that i will be able to justify sampling. hopefully he won't have been pucked over by then.

bux, the key word in my second point above was "only". i was wondering if the implication of your musing was that expansion was the only release for restlessness.

1. i think you're onto something here bux. i think it is important to some of those who subscribe to a particular ideology of the artisan-chef to resist what they see as a move to being a businessman, a franchiser. but keller is already a business-man, as are most artisan-chefs. as such this is a logical progression, not some qualitative change in philosophy. 2. posing the question in the form of "where does one go from here?" is interesting, however. can restlessness only be answered in the form of expansion? why not in the form of shifting style or genre? i'm more persuaded by looking at it the first way than the second. these are academic questions for me though since i can't afford to eat at the french laundry; and personally from what i've read (and seen on "a cook's tour") of both if i had to choose i'd pick a day eating street-food in thailand over a day at the french laundry (though of course in an ideal world i'd be able to do both).

should we start brain-storming catch-phrases for keller?

it should be noted that the matters of ritual and ritual control that gautam is describing are/were largely restricted to upper-caste (if not class) brahmins in bengal. this is not to say that lower caste hindu bengalis would/do not have patriarchal rituals of their own but it is important not to elide high-caste brahmin with hindu, or bengali for that matter. of course, down in the lower recesses (in terms of caste) of bengali society (or for that matter all indian) entirely different situations apply--sometimes, as in the case of tribal societies (which were under far less pressure in the 18th and 19th centuries than they are now) these are matriarchal. i haven't read chiritra devi banerjee's book so i'm not sure to what extent its reach is dominated by a particular caste experience and history. anyone?

gautam, if i didn't know better i'd call you coy. everyone who reads this forum will be thrilled beyond belief if you will share more of your deep knowledge of bengali food and its history/geography with us. for those of us in the diaspora especially (both in india and outside) knowledge of the cultural vectors that produce us becomes a little more blurred each year--for all i know it is the same story in calcutta. anyway, to cut a long story short: please let fly with as much as you have the energy for. i'm still waiting for more information on where to find the 500 pages you made reference to earlier. mongo.

pan, a ghoti is a west-bengali (usually from calcutta), a bangal an east-bengali. as far as i know these are appellations that only/largely apply to hindus (gautam will know a whole lot more). as gautam indicates there may be generational issues around the use of these terms--friends from bangladesh are occasionally shocked to hear calcutta bengalis use the term "ghoti" to describe themselves; there, i gather, it still has a pejorative connotation. however, in my family, for instance, (not the most polite people on the planet) which is mixed (very proper calcutta brahmins on my mother's side, and badly behaved kayastha east-bengalis from mymensingh on my father's side) these terms are not charged in the manner they are for gautam. after partition, with the influx of east-bengali hindus into calcutta, they've served as cultural differentiators--east-bengalis speak a different dialect (though this too is generationally marked), cook differently and support different football teams. i am from a generation that has been fortunate (or forgetful) to have not had to worry about other implications, consequences of these terms. (this is the case also with another word gautam made reference to: the word "bong", which is a, usually mocking, term used by north-indians to describe bengalis.) as such, and again because i come from a legendarily o-bhodro (loose translation: impolite, indecorous) family, i feel comfortable using them. i apologize to gautam or anyone else here who may feel uncomfortable around them. as for george bernard shaw, his ghoti meant fish. which is a very bengali word. regards, mongo

gautam, how about posting more old-school ghoti brahman recipes? mongo

we need to get an outreach program going then

jackfruit takes about as kindly to hacking as the pentagon edited to add: plus people who know how to use botis don't have any problems with them. i wonder how suvir and crew dismantle their jackfruit. you should see what is used to grate fresh coconut out of the shell--i think there might be a picture on my food-trip page somewhere.

Good guess. But it's easier in the crockpot. Trust me perfect mushoor dal with no mess takes 30-35 fuss-free minutes on the stove-top--why would i want to take 6-7 hours instead in a slow-cooker? it seems to make more sense to make things that usually take a lot of time and attention that way. then again i've never cooked with a slow cooker. edit to add: i can see making urad and channa dal in a slow-cooker--maybe i'll even try it someday--but dals in general are so easy to cook, in a pressure cooker or on the stove. mushoor dal needs to be washed thoroughly and boiled with not too much turmeric and with a tiny bit of oil to prevent it from spilling over when it comes to a boil--if that doesn't work all you need to do is just keep an eye on it at the moment when it begins to rise, remove from the heat, stir, lower the heat and put it back on--from that point on it will behave itself. or just use a pot high enough so that the dal doesn't spill over the top. i guess i'm approaching this from the perspective of time--maybe i should consider it from the perspective of flavor? do things cooked in a crockpot taste qualitatively different?

always vote early and often

hey erin, make sure you tell us where you end up going and how it goes. if you tell us your final choices before you go we might also be able to recommend dishes if we know the place well. mongo

Same here. However, I just discovered how useful it is for lentils. I tried cooking lentils in the pressure cooker like my mother does but each time it's a big mess all over the stove. I make lentils in the crockpot and I don't have to worry about any mess and it's cooked to perfection. First you have to bring it to a boil on the stove then dump it in the crockpot and let it simmer (I set it on 'high' for 3-4hours?). I'm sure any kind of dhal should work but cooking time may vary. Experiment. dal in a crockpot? doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. what dal are you having mess related issues with? let me guess--you're cooking mushoor dal in the pressure cooker? much easier on the stove-top. crockpot recipes i'd like would be for things like khichdi, red meat curries etc., rajma and so on.

i'd never heard of okra/bhindi being slimy till i came to the u.s--what's wrong with you people? don't you know how to cook?

i am in a hole and i am ashamed but i still vote yes

skchai, you'd be surprised how many home-cooks in india use condensed milk to make quite delicious kheer, gajar halwa and the like...

i am partial to ma hazan's still life with chicken and 2 lemons

slow cookers rushina--i'd never heard of them till i came to the u.s; now even though i have one i don't know what to do with it. just like most americans can't fathom using its reverse, a pressure cooker.