Dave R

@ElsieD sounds like we use similar methods. I use my ZO for batches that use 20 ounces or less of flour, then bake in the oven. For larger batches I use an old Bosch Universal. With that I only mix about three minutes and then use stretch and fold to develop the gluten. I live in a more rural area and there are no bakeries near by. The local store doesn't offer much either, but they do have a pretty good selection of Bob's Red Mill products, so we're lucky in that respect. Dave

@JoNorvelleWalkeryour comment makes me wonder about baking schedules for the home bakers here. Do most of you also buy commercially made breads? Just curious. I eat a lot of bread. I bake (including griddle bakes of pita and tortillas) three or four times a week. I'm retired so I've got that going for me. And when I worked, I worked mostly from home so I always could take time to work with dough. But with the exception of tortillas at a Mexican restaurant, the last time I ate commercially produced bread was when I was in the hospital in 2006. I've mentioned before that I switched over to pan baking for bread at the end of last year, so I don't post a lot of pictures. Once you've seen one you've seen them all! I did finally get my part whole wheat Pullman loaf to where I wanted it a week or so ago so I'll post that. And I am working on a 40% rye Pullman loaf. Makes me want to buy pre sliced Swiss cheese just because they fit so perfectly with the slice of bread! Dave

@Ann_T Above all else, protect your health! Now to the fun stuff. I certainly understand experimenting with a craft you love. If you think the Challenger is something you'd like to work with, then why not? I'm more of a nuts and bolts kind of baker and have used or owned just about every kind of mixer you can think of. I've never baked in the oven vessel style, but have seen plenty of beautiful loaves done that way. As a side note, for pizza I started using a pair of these gloves about a year ago. Well worth it, especially if handling 500° F iron. As an alternative to the Challenger I've read on line that some are using a baking stone/steel with a restaurant pan over the loaves as a steam generator. Stainless works well and is obviously much lighter. Sizes of stone/steel and pan would vary based on what your home oven could handle. If you get the Challenger I'd love to see some pictures of it in action. Dave

@Ann_THow are you baking most of your bread now? I had thought you were using a CSO and I gather the Challenger is more for a conventional oven using a cover for part of the bake. Edit: I remember someone at The Fresh Loaf using this glass baker as an alternative. Dave

@Ann_T A perfect birthday gift! A beautifully done loaf. Dave

Probably referring to King Arthur Flour. Dave

that's a really nice looking loaf! Dave

Yesterday's rye bake. Just sliced this AM. @ElsieD Mine is not really a light rye, but I'll post anyway in case you're interested. Starters are the term I use for a poolish pre-ferment. They can be made early in the morning and be ready for use about 9 or 10 hours later, depending on room temperature. I often mix it during the day, refrigerate it overnight and take it out first thing in the morning. It's usually ready to use after lunch Note: I am baking at 7,800 ft. above sea level. Time an temp may need adjustment for your area. Use mixer on low speed for 3 min. Add salt and caraway seeds for the last minute of mixing. Ferment covered on board, turning (stretch and fold) once every 30 minutes for 60 minutes. Ferment in bulk in ‘fridge, turning twice at 2 or 3 hour intervals. Leave 12 to 14 hours. Take out of fridge, cover and allow to come to room temp for one to two hours, depending on room temp. Form into two loaves for pan and let rise 30 to 45 minutes depending on room temp. Have oven at 450° F . Spray loaves with water. Score loaves and place in oven. Bake for 20 minutes then lower oven temperature to 425° F, At 50 minutes remove the loaves from the pans and bake on the oven rack for another 10 minutes. At that point remove from the oven. Internal temperature should be about 194˚ F. Dave

@Ann_T Beautiful bread as always. And I'd also mention that your pictures are really nicely done! I got a bargain on a new Lodge griddle and I've been making pita this morning to try it out. I have a very large round griddle that I usually use to make three at a time on. I'm not used to this griddle yet so I stuck with two. I usually make a batch of small ones (6") that fit in a toaster and we freeze and reheat them for lunches. I use a yeasted starter (poolish) of whole wheat flour. It's small, only about 10% of the total flour, but it adds flavor and helps with extensibility when rolling them out. Pictures are sideways but you get the idea. Dave

@Anna N That looks great! Pizza is an under rated breakfast food. Dave

Thank you @ElsieD! To convert to grams just multiply by 28.35. Dave

@PatrickTAlways glad to share. Let me know when you're ready. Dave

@PatrickTThank you! I think some of that is because my wife is a good photographer. I mentioned a while back that I have four basic weekly loaves and just add variations to them. This is the only one I haven't posted before. I call it Multi Grain so I can distinguish it from the others. This one is just cool enough to cut for lunch. Like all if my loaves, I give it an overnight cold ferment. Unlike my other loaves it doesn't use a pre-ferment but has a soaker instead. The soaker can vary by what's available, but my usual ingredients are wheat germ, rolled oats and corn grits. Dave

@PatrickTI look forward to seeing your Japanese Milk Bread. Another thing that I've seen on forums lately that I've never done. I'm still fooling around with my Pullman pan, trying to perfect it. I also look forward to seeing your loaf done in the pan. Hopefully you can pass along some tips. Dave

@PatrickTreally nice looking loaf! I've never baked in any sort of vessel other than a bread pan, but it looks like it works very well for you. Money well spent at Goodwill. Dave

@ElsieDThat is just picture perfect bread! I'm with @PatrickT. That's my kind of bread too! Interesting that you may have had an issue with the cinnamon. I've learned and forgotten that lesson a few times in my life. I found a little information that you can expand on if you want to research it for your own information. I looked up cinnamic aldehyde. Just a brief quote "in frozen bread applications yeast activity was impeded by 80%". I know there's lots more information out there. If you want to try the cinnamon again, just remember to add more yeast. I wish I had a carved in stone rate of increase to give you but it can vary with different recipes and probably also with types of cinnamon, and even how old the cinnamon is. You may notice older cinnamon having lost some of its odor and flavor, and I would think that's the cinnamic aldehyde degrading. Dave

@ElsieD Most spices that are in the "tree bark" family will retard yeast. I'm mostly familiar with cinnamon and nutmeg doing it. I've seen recipes with almost triple the yeast amount when these are actually mixed into the dough. I've seen some chemical explanation of why but when I try to read them my eyes sort of glaze over! I think it's in the realm of oxygen and fermentation. Perhaps someone smarter than I can chime in on that. The rice flour acts as a binder. You could easily substitute AP flour or just leave it out all together. I've seen recipes on King Arthur's site where they use their product Instant ClearJel which is just modified food starch. Dave

In addition to my regular weekly baking, I've been playing around with cinnamon and sugar these days. These cinnamon rolls are made with my standard bun/roll recipe that I posted on page 97, with the addition of 2T of powdered milk and divided into 12 pieces. Baked in a muffin tin. Filling is pretty standard. About 1/4 C (2 oz) of half and half brown and granulated sugar, 1 1/2t (0.10 oz) cinnamon and 2t (0.20 oz) rice flour. I don't like to mix cinnamon into the dough itself because of the negative effect it has on yeast, and I don't like the flavor of the over yeasting it requires. I've tried osmotolerant yeast but it doesn't seem to work any better for me. Just a light honey cinnamon glaze, they would have been better with butter but we're at the end of a shopping cycle. Still pretty tasty hot out of the oven. Had a few left for a picture.

@Ann_TYou certainly have you're technique down. Very nice baguettes! I first became aware of Charles Van Over's "The Best Bread Ever" when I read Maggie Glezer. She's actually the author that got me into using a food processor. I got my copy of his book used from ThriftBooks and I don't think it had ever been opened either, so you're not alone! Dave

@Ann_T That's a very good tutorial on preferments. It's better than I could explain things. Dave

@Ann_T sorry, senior moment, I was so busy looking at the pictures I didn't see the Biga ingredients list at the top. On to other bread. My experiment with a cinnamon loaf using egg wash instead of butter or milk as a binder was close but no cigar. A slight separation in the top corners. I went back to look at Ciril Hitz's picture in "Baking Artisan Bread". and it sort of looked like he had some separation at the corners too. Could be the covered Pullman pan. Maybe just wishful thinking on my part. He also uses quite a bit more filling. Oh well, back to the drawing board! Dave

@Ann_T Thanks for that link. A good illustration of dough made in a food processor. I've had a Breville 16-Cup for several years and it's good for low hydration doughs but the higher hydration smaller batch doughs don't work that well for me. I've got a Zo from the mid 1990s that I use for smaller patch doughs (up to about 20 ounces of flour). I've never baked in it but I like it because cleanup is so easy. For my weekly bread doughs (About 4 lbs of dough) I use an older Bosch Universal that I got used from a cooking school around 2000. It's still going strong! I know the term Biga is used for many different types of starter and was wondering what the hydration of yours is. It looks a lot like my Poolish (what I grew up calling and still call a starter) which is regularly 50/50. Dave

@Kim Shook, nice robust looking loaves with a great crumb! Thanks for the recipe link. I usually finish my pan loaves out of the pan on the oven rack. In my case about 10 minutes, but that's in a regular home oven. I would have gladly eaten the "well done" edges! Dave

I posted earlier that I picked up a USA 9" Pullman pan. I've been working on adjusting my recipe to get the best square profile that I can, and I'm about done with that with 11 oz of bread flour and 6 ounces of whole wheat. Just an ounce addition of bread flour from my starting point (about 65%/35%). I'll post a couple of pictures below. My goal has been to make a partial whole wheat version of the bread Ciril Hitz shows in "Baking Artisan Bread". Sort of a square/round cinnamon swirl combination. I could use some suggestions or help when it comes to filling the bread. Despite decades of baking bread, I'm very limited in my sweets knowledge. The last time I made anything even close to this was cinnamon rolls with a brioche dough, and that was over 20 years ago! The filling is taken from an older King Arthur recipe (I put in the ounces) and is 1/4 cup (50g) granulated sugar 1.75 oz, 1 1/2 teaspoons cinnamon 0.10 oz, and 2 teaspoons ap flour 0.20 oz as a stabilizer. I got the stabilizer idea from KA's Blog post "5 ways to reduce the gap in cinnamon swirl bread". In that post it's suggested that using an egg wash on the flattened dough before adding the cinnamon mix to help the roll stick together and not form gaps when baking. I remember using butter for the brioche rolls but not egg. I'd appreciate any suggestions for getting a nice looking, non separated loaf. I may just be overthinking this, but thought I'd take advantage of the collective knowledge here. Thanks! Dave

@Ann_T beautifully done loaves. Sounds like we are on similar baking schedules. I'm usually done pre-shaping around 4 AM. Glad I don't have to go to work! Dave