Fat Guy

There are a few issues. A restaurant that contributes nothing to cuisine in terms of creativity or evolution has a serious disadvantage when vying for that last star. The restaurant you're describing sounds more like a luxe three-star American restaurant along the lines of Patroon when Geoffrey Zakarian was in the kitchen. Another issue is the "ol'" part of "good ol' American fare." Restaurants serving oysters and chops could have gotten four stars in days of yore, when The Four Seasons was the pinnacle of American dining (we could probably dig through the Times archive and find four-star reviews of The Four Seasons and other American restaurants from days of yore), but today the top echelon of the American culinary genre is defined by New American cuisine such as what is served at Charlie Trotter's or French Laundry (or Per Se). That being said, there are no rules for the star system other than the whim of the New York Times restaurant reviewer. So the current reviewer could certainly exercise his authority and give four stars to a grand luxe conservative old-style American restaurant. But it would not be in keeping with the way the system has thus far evolved and been deployed.

Ruby Tuesday's has it all over Per Se on the salad bar front, though.

Operating expenses are surely higher. I have no idea if Per Se will be profitable at all, or more or less profitable than French Laundry. I'm just saying that if you look at the huge gross numbers this place is going to do and you assume some reasonable percentage of profit it's not hard to see it paying back a $16 million startup investment. As for the mall, I'm sure I'm not the only person posting on this thread who has been to Asia. You know all those cities that have risen to global prominence, like Singapore and Hong Kong, and that threaten to leave America and Europe in the dust? Guess what you'll find in those cities? Malls. Lots and lots and lots of malls. If the Time Warner Center is to be derided for dragging luddite New Yorkers into the future by giving us our first truly modern Asian-style urban mall, so be it. There are always plenty of New Yorkers willing to speak out against progress, so it's no surprise to see a regurgitation of that bad old habit. No, we wouldn't be celebrating this as an historic moment in cuisine if all the chefs had opened restaurants around the city roughly within a year of each other. Guess why? Because without the Time Warner Center there wouldn't likely be a single one of these restaurants. Would Keller have opened here? Would Kunz have found investors? Would Masa have been enticed to come here from California? Would Charlie Trotter have felt the same kind of peer pressure? The alternative history doesn't work: the Time Warner Center is the cause and the developers are the visionaries, it's not just some building in which a bunch of restaurants randomly opened. It's extreme urban density and critical mass in action. Not to mention, the views. There was a time, in the '70s and '80s, when hotel restaurants in America were a joke. Today, three of the four four-star restaurants in New York are in hotels. Chefs, hotels, and other investors got it together to follow the European model of having many of the best restaurants be in hotels. New Yorkers got used to it. Just as Parisians walk through the Plaza Athenee's lobby to dine at ADPA, Americans walk through the Essex House to dine at ADNY. New Yorkers will get used to malls as well, and the city will be better for it.

Whenever the Bruni review appears, it will not be a verdict. The institution of New York Times restaurant reviewer has been so eroded, and Bruni has done so little to reverse course after his single promising first review, that he has no standing to pass judgment on Per Se. Rather, those who have dined at Per Se, and those who already know what everybody is saying about Per Se, will be passing judgment on him. Anything less than a four-star review for Per Se would be such a major credibility-destroying move for Bruni that he would never be able to recover. If he gives Per Se four stars, it won't be a verdict either: the market has already decided that Per Se is a four-star restaurant without any help from the Times. The Times dropped the ball on Time Warner. It was a golden opporunity to reclaim pole position and leadership in the restaurant reviewing community. Instead, a series of disastrous reviews, starting with the Asiate "go to Jean Georges" embarrassment, moving on to the "???" failure even to muster the confidence to award any star rating at all to Masa, and continuing through a bizarrely punitive and uncompelling review of V, have left the Times with nothing more than a bunch of eggs to unscramble, credibility to rescue, and an incoherent message about the past, present, and future of dining in New York.

Do we have any evidence that the restaurant is a loss leader? Here's what we do know: - French Laundry in Napa grosses $7.5 million per year - Per Se is doing 1.5 turns and therefore 100+ covers a night, more than French Laundry does - Per Se has extensive banquet facilities that French Laundry lacks - Per Se has a liquor license; French Laundry does not - Per Se will be baking for a Bouchon Bakery property and realizing revenue from that synergy No expert am I, but plenty of industry people have estimated informally to me that Per Se could easily do $2 million more in dining room sales than French Laundry on account of wine, liquor, and extra seating, as well as $3 million in banquet sales, plus $1 million from the bakery. The New York Magazine writer's thesis is extremely weak, and all this anti-mall propaganda is tiresome. This is perhaps the greatest collection of chefs ever to have restaurants together in a single venue. It's an historic moment in American cuisine, one that deserves more than a little bit of respect. There have been mistakes, there are things to criticize, and no restaurant is perfect, but condemnation of the project for reasons of sensationalism, politics, or anti-mall snobbery is shameful.

I'm not sure gas is the correct baseline for comparison. Presumably, most anybody who has a readily available gas supply already laid in will simply utilize it. There may be some idiosyncratic people out there who just hate gas for whatever reason, but I have yet to meet anybody with a fully functioning gas tap in the correct position in the kitchen who has ever said, eh, let's just seal it up and put in an electric cooktop. The typical electric cooktop owner just doesn't have gas as an immediate option, so chooses electric in order to avoid breaking walls and floors and running gas lines through the house, setting up a propane tank in the absence of municipal gas, running afoul of condo rules, etc. So really the comparison should be between different kinds of electric cooktops.

Just spent a weekend cooking quite a lot of food in an all-electric kitchen with halogen ceramic cooktops and found them to be quite usable. It had plenty of power, boiled water quickly and was totally sufficient for sauteeing in a 12" skillet even shy of the top setting. I'd certainly prefer these to any other kind of residential electric setup save perhaps for a good induction unit with appropriate cookware, and I think they perform better than a crummy gas range. They're incredibly easy to clean compared to any variant of gas or exposed electric element design, except for restaurant-style flattop and plancha configurations that are impractical for home use because they require so much preheating. The fact that people use the rangetop as extra counter space isn't what I'd consider a design flaw. Heck I use my gas range as extra counter space when necessary. And you sure can burn yourself on a gas range that has been off even for 10 minutes, if it has dense iron grates like mine. As for the dancing pot phenomenon, that sounds kind of cool, but I can see how it's a disadvantage. Then again I bet ceramic cooktops rarely set towels or potholders on fire the way gas ranges do with alarming frequency.

Not to be overlooked: the breakfasts. Doc can fill us in on the sources of the ingredients, but we had two wonderful breakfasts of local eggs, bacon, and a whole mess of other stuff. We also had Saturday lunch composed of locally purchased breads and cheeses, and at around midnight on Friday Doc fried up some pork-stuffed rice balls.

Picnics are overrated. I'm sure our meal was much more enjoyable for being eaten on the Sconzos' porch than it would have been at the racetrack. Even were I a fan of picnics in general, though, my feeling about the races is that it would be best to go sans food no matter what. The picnic areas of the racetrack are not actually in view of the track, so you're essentially watching the races on TV in the middle of a crowd. Unless you're very interested in the gaming aspect of racing, that's not much of an improvement over watching on ESPN. Whereas, if you go unburdened by a picnic, you can watch a few races from the rail, get out, and retreat to a more peaceful venue for the actual meal.

The ones I've seen are made by Unisource Packaging. You can find a list of Unisource distribution centers here: http://www.unisourcelink.com/locator/other...ace=otherunits3 They might be willing to sell you a few, though they probably usually work in large quantities. Although I think it would probably be easier to get one from a wine shop or winery. I'm sorry I've thrown so many of them in the garbage -- most wine I get in the mail comes in those containers -- otherwise I could give you like 20 of them. If you're just driving, you won't likely have a problem with just keeping your wine on the back seat in cardboard wine cases -- or if you have a minivan your storage area is also air conditioned by default, which is nice. The issue arises mostly when you stop the vehicle, get out, and leave the wine inside as the temperature rises to 125 degrees in the passenger compartment. If that's going to happen, you need insulation, and your best bet in my opinion is a big plastic cooler like the ones they sell at Costco, big enough to store the bottles standing up, with ice packs wedged between and among them for stability. This environment might get a little humid, thus possibly affecting the labels, but it will surely protect your wine under even the worst of circumstances.

The Docsconzes were incredible hosts. I'm glad turnout was limited, though, because it allowed the six of us to have about 20 pounds of meat all to ourselves. We'll post a few photos later on.

This sounds great. We'll be there.

eGullet users are pseudonymous rather than anonymous. There is one username per member, and it is easy to view all posts by a member. We also require real names and addresses upon registration; we simply keep those confidential for security and privacy purposes -- but as it says in our user agreement we will revoke the privilege of a pseudonym if a member uses it as a sword rather than a shield. There is ultimately no logical difference, in my opinion, between a consistently utilized pseudonym and a real name, assuming the user of that pseudonym is only using that one pseudonym and has no other public identity in the relevant field. Let me ask, however, that any further discussion of anonymity as a general issue be held in the Policy Discussion Forum, where there is already discussion of that issue in progress. This thread is for the more immediate issue of Da Sto and the Washington Post's coverage thereof. Thanks.

The debate between Gillian and several eGulleters is the story.

We've been working for awhile on media guidelines, because it's important for eGullet to make the effort to explain itself to the press. In this instance, however, if we had media guidelines in place it's hard to imagine anything I'd have wanted the Post to do differently. Of all the newspapers in the world that have covered eGullet -- and I think that number is somewhere around 100 at this point -- the Washington Post has lead the pack in terms of responsible, respectful use of our site. The editors and writers at the Post have always been sensitive to issues of accuracy, they have given back to eGullet by participating in Q&As here . . . indeed, in writing our media guidelines, in our drafting sessions, we have often said, "How would the Washington Post handle this?" Which is not to say the Post is a perfect paper. I disagree with much of what I read in the Post food section. But the reporter in question behaved conscientiously and wrote a good article. We can certainly disagree with it, but I see no basis for objections to the reporter's professionalism or ethics. eGullet is viewable by the public. What you write here can be read by anybody in the world who has an Internet connection and understands English. If you have anything to say that you don't want that set of people to read, don't say it. Although this is a conversation in the sense that it is interactive and people respond to one another, it is not the same as a spoken conversation: it is not private and it is in writing. We have some private forums for our members to discuss site-related issues, so I do think it would be unethical for someone to quote from those without permission, and of course very long quotes from anywhere on the site might exceed the bounds of fair use, but most of our forums are public and most newspapers are only quoting a few words. If you go on a TV show and have a "conversation" with the host of the show, you know you may be quoted the next day in any newspaper. If you write an article in any publicly readable medium -- a newspaper, a magazine, a Weblog -- someone may read you and quote you. Think of eGullet the same way -- it's like an interactive Weblog and journal of food ideas. It also happens to be fun and it's a community, but I assure you a very high percentage of the top magazine and newspaper food editors are reading eGullet and using it as a source. We're making news here, people. News will be covered by the news media. Get used to it.

Clearly there's a lot of room for personal preference here, but just speaking for myself this is what I would see as the ideal carrot cake: - Very traditional carrot cake with cream cheese frosting, nuts, and raisins -- no twists or variations - Very moist cake - Lots and lots of raisins and many nuts but with the raisins dominant - Neither cake nor frosting to be sickly sweet - Cake to be formed in layers so there's frosting throughout

Mallomars are not produced between April and September, because they are not stable enough to ship in unrefrigerated trucks in warm weather. The exact dates change each year, but every year soon after Labor Day the Mallomars return to supermarket shelves in the Northeast and beyond. Mallomar junkies freeze a supply in April in order to make it through the summer.

Lobel's has several new Wagyu steak products on its Web site now. These new offerings are from American Wagyu cattle, which means the information I posted above is no longer applicable to the Wagyu beef being sold by Lobel's -- both the source and the available cuts have changed. At some point I'll try to do another comparison, but for now I've got to say something about sirloin. Sirloin is a neglected cut of beef. By sirloin I mean real sirloin not a New York strip, which is sometimes mistakenly referred to as sirloin. As described by Lobel's, "The sirloin is a large steak, making it suitable for families and parties. A typical sirloin is usually cut two and one half to three and one half inches thick, with a small amount of wedge bone. Sirloins vary in shape and bone size and include the pin bone or hipbone, the flat bone and the round bone." It is unusual to find dry-aged sirloin anywhere -- even more unusual than finding dry-aged steak in general. Even places like Fairway, Citarella, and Stew Leonard's, where they dry-age their own beef, typically only offer porterhouse, t-bone, and strip steaks, and possibly rib steaks, in dry aged beef. Lobel's now offers, among other steaks, something called a "dry-aged Wagyu bone-in hip sirloin." It is an amazing piece of meat, and it presents an immediate logistical problem: no standard skillet could possibly contain the thing. Not having a grill in my apartment, I opted to start the steak, 2 minutes per side, under the broiler, and to finish it in the oven for a few more minutes. The steak is too big for a standard broiler pan, though, so you need to improvise with, for example, a half-sheet pan. Here's the steak before cooking, rubbed with salt, pepper, and olive oil. Here it is post-cooking: You can see the wedge bone, and there are sort of four zones of the steak: the massive one in the middle, the two smaller units to the left and right of the center section, and the one on the other side of the bone. These don't vary in taste the way the filet and strip sides of a porterhouse do, but I noticed some subtle differences. Tentatively, I'd say the best meat is from that little piece on the left -- although the marbling throughout this steak is amazing, that little piece is over the top. If I ever get another of these steaks, however, I will tie the whole thing so the little piece doesn't spring away and therefore cook faster than the rest. The steak exuded just enough juices such that, combined with some butter, it made a Peter Luger-style spoonable sauce/jus. After resting the meat for 10 minutes, I carved it up and served it on a deep platter with the sauce. To say it was the best sirloin I've ever had would be an understatement. It was so much better than the best sirloin I've ever had that it hardly even tasted like it came from the same species of animal as the other sirloins I've had. Sirloin is a terrifically flavorful steak, but it is normally tough compared to the standard steakhouse cuts. The dry-aging process and the use of very tender and heavily marbled Wagyu beef, however, combine to produce a sirloin that has all the great flavor of sirloin, plus the great flavor of dry-aged beef, but that is also as buttery-tender as a dry-aged New York strip.

The eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters Statement of Purpose The purpose of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters is to increase awareness and knowledge of the arts of cooking, eating and drinking, as well as the literature of food and drink. We carry out this purpose in many places and in many ways, but primarily through Internet food media. We seek to appeal to a diverse group covering professional and amateur cooks, producers, writers and consumers. The arts and crafts connected with food and drink take place in a wide variety of settings. We believe that: - Good food doesn’t have to be expensive or esoteric – just good. Good food and drink aren't exclusive to the rich and well-traveled; - People throughout the world and in all economic circumstances can be healthier, wealthier and happier by learning to eat well and cook well, and by thinking and speaking more clearly about their food and drink; - Professional cooks and passionate amateur cooks, professional producers and hobbyists of food and drink, professional food and beverage writers and passionate amateur writers each have something special to bring to the table. The conversation is richer and more interesting when the worlds of the professional and the amateur are brought together; - Food can both satisfy physical needs and engage the highest functions of intellect. It can be a commodity, a craft, an art. Though a source of bodily pleasure, food and drink are also worthy subjects for discussion, at practical, aesthetic and philosophical levels; - The media do much to shape our perceptions about food and drink. We are better off when the media covering food and drink are informed, honest and passionate about their subject. Like all arts, food writing is worth doing well. The Society's activities are determined by its Board, which is authorized to pursue any program of activity that is aligned with the Society's purpose. Our geographic scope is global. Activities of the Society include: - Encouraging the development of talented writers on food and drink, through competitions, awards, fellowships and internships; - Encouraging the development of quality food and beverage media, particularly Internet media, through direct publication and broadcast, printed new media collections, journalistic coverage of food media, competitions and awards; - Encouraging the development of talented chefs and producers of food and drink, through competitions, awards, scholarships and internships; - Developing and offering educational programs, including the eGullet Culinary Institute, an online learning program; and outreach programs about food and cooking to schools and underprivileged adults; - Operating the eGullet Forums, which we aim to make the Internet’s most compelling, exciting and technologically advanced interactive conversation about food, drink, and everything related to them.

I need it. Who's got it?

The eGullet community is the most amazing collection of people I've ever had the pleasure of being a part of. I am continually amazed at the diversity and thoughtfulness of our readers, members, and staff. When I think of the dynamic international organization that eGullet has become, I'm certainly impressed by our accomplishments, but I'm far more concerned about who we are. Our forums hosts have always helped set the tone of our community by encouraging members to contribute and by adding their own expertise to the dialog. Many new hosts have joined us over time as our staff has grown to 50-plus. Today I'm proud to announce that several new forum hosts will be joining our staff, and I know eGullet will be richer for their voices. Elie Nassar (“Foodman”) will be joining the Texas forum hosting team, and will also host the Middle East forum. Elie was born and raised in Lebanon. More specifically, he spent his childhood and youth between Beirut, where he went to school and where his family worked, and Rahbi, his hometown in northern Lebanon, where he spent vacations, holidays, weekends and any chance he got. It was in both of these places, his mother’s kitchen in their Beirut apartment and his grandmother’s kitchen at the family house in Rahbi, where the love of good food was ingrained in him. He left Lebanon for Houston to finish his education. He graduated with a business MIS degree from the University of Houston and is now a Systems Analyst living in Houston, TX with his wife and son. He is a cook and an amateur food writer. Currently Elie prepares food almost every day for his family but is stretching his horizons beyond Lebanon. Italian, French, Chinese, Mexican and of course Southern dishes now make regular appearances on the family table. Elie joined eGullet in July 2002 and has been addicted to the site ever since. He presented a class on Lebanese cooking as part of the eGullet Culinary Institute. Melissa Goodman (“Gifted Gourmet”), will be co-hosting the US Southeast forum. Melissa was raised in a home where cooking in any form was minimal. As a result of living in this culinarily deprived atmosphere, and having briefly run a small catering company, she developed a lifelong passion for all things culinary, and spent long years attempting to channel Brillat-Savarin, with some degree of success. Melissa earned several degrees in educational curriculum development, and pursued those areas as an educator for more than twenty years. Upon retiring, she returned to her lifelong loves: gastronomic adventures, food writing and restaurant reviewing, travel both at home and abroad, visiting art museums (having what must surely be the largest collection of Arcimboldo food prints and accessories), and classical music. Thoroughly convinced that learning can take place apart from the classroom setting, Melissa spends time enlightening and enriching the food education of the members of eGullet, as humorously as legally permitted. She currently lives with her husband in Atlanta, Georgia. Alberto Chinali (“albiston”) will be co-hosting the Italy forum. Alberto was born in Germany from an Italian family and spent a good part of his life moving from one end of Italy to the other, with a few years spent between the US, Belgium and the UK. Growing up on home cooking from Mantua and Rome, and having lived a long time in Naples, he loves regional cooking from all over Italy and would like one day, possibly before he retires, to be able to say he finally knows Italian cuisine. Nonetheless, the years abroad gave him a strong curiosity for other cuisines, and he hopes one day to have enough money to make a grand tour gastronomique of the world. Like every good Italian, Alberto has a soft spot for wine. Strange as it may sound, this was sparked off by the discovery of Belgian Abbey Beers. While studying for his PhD he managed to earn his only official food-related title, completing the AIS (Italian Sommelier Assoc.) courses to become a Sommelier. But he never had a chance to employ his skills on anyone except his guests. Having recently discovered a passion for baking, he started a little blog, Il Forno ( http://ilforno.typepad.com/il_forno ), to keep track of his experiences. Now back in Germany, with his wife Daniela and their little son Saami, he works as a biochemist for a local university, but not too secretly hopes to quit this job and find a way to turn his food and wine passion into his professional future. Chris Anderson will be our new New England forum co-host. Chris is a freelance writer specializing in food, technology, personal finance and slice-of-life people profiles. A Maine native (a claim disputed by some whose families are generations deep in the state), Chris grew up in the mountains near the New Hampshire border, where the best practice was to accept the pizza made there as a separate food from, well, pizza. Prior to self-employment, Chris served (in the mid 1990s) as managing editor of Gourmet News, a b2b newspaper for the specialty food trade, and spearheaded the editorial start-up of a business newspaper for the security industry. Chris finds equal pleasure in properly prepared foods, from fried clams and pulled pork, to foie gras and crème brulee. He lives just outside of Portland, Maine, with his wife and two children, and enjoys torturing himself through his complete devotion to the Boston Red Sox. John Talbott will join us as co-host for the France forum. John has been eating in France since 1953 and now lives there 1/3rd time. He's convinced he was born to French parents and was switched at birth. He began cooking when his father went off in WWII, was the culinator at a college humor magazine and taught his wife Colette to cook. He is often asked if he is related to the St-Julienais folks at Château Talbot but admits to getting a family discount only at Robert Talbott vineyards in California. When not at "home" in Paris, he teaches at the University of Maryland. He has written over 200 books, articles and other drivel, not one of which deals with food. And the multi-talented Lucy Vanel (“bleudauvergne”), upon returning from her August vacation, will join John as France forum co-host. We'll add her bio and welcome her again later this month. In addition, three of our current forum hosts are becoming site managers. The site managers are the head administrators of eGullet, each responsible for working with a group of forum hosts to ensure the smooth function of the forums as well as managing many of the site's central functions. Many site managers also host forums. Janet A. Zimmerman (“JAZ”), who currently hosts our cocktails forum; Kristin Yamaguchi (“torakris”), our current Japan forum host; and Brooks Hamaker (“Mayhaw Man”), our Louisiana host and Beer forum co-host, are our newest site managers. We look forward to reaping the benefits of their level heads and selfless devotion to the eGullet community. Bios of all eGullet staffers are, as always, available on our Meet the eGullet Team page.

It seems to be a mayo-based sauce, but I don't know the exact composition. Perhaps the next person to go by The Shack will see what can be learned.

Vermont is interesting for many reasons, one of which is that it has an outsize impact on the dairy culture. It's not the nation's top dairy producing state -- I don't even think it's in the top 10 -- yet in the public consciousness it is probably the state most strongly identified with dairy, with the possible exception of Wisconsin. Ben & Jerry's, the graphic artistry of Woody Jackson, Cabot, and the UVM dairy program, among others, all have very large footprints.

It would be difficult to imagine a much more favorable review of ADNY, especially given the historical context. I recently had a second meal at ADNY/Delouvrier and was very pleased with the restaurant's progress: the dishes were tightly wound and authoritative, and there was a palpable, positive vibe among the waitstaff. They'll be shutting down for the annual August vacation -- I believe the middle 2 weeks of August? -- and I expect the buzz will really get going when they and the well-to-do target audience get re-situated in the city and they start moving towards the fall produce, and then game and truffle seasons.

They have them at Fairway, as noted on the NYC shopping thread in April. They've got the beef ones and the bison ones, as well as a few other products like salami.