Fat Guy

Becco's "sinfonia di pasta" is $16.95 at lunchtime. That may be a little more -- maybe $2 more? -- than the cost of an antipasto and a pasta entree at a rock-bottom budget Italian restaurant, but at Becco you get a totally superior product: the antipasto is extensive and includes not only fresh mozzarella, high-quality marinated mushrooms and various other cold vegetable items, but also several kinds of cold seafood. For your pasta, you get three house-made fresh pastas, all of which are always several steps up the quality ladder from what you get at cheap Italian restaurants. In addition, the wine list at Becco is cheaper than at even the cheapest restaurants yet better than at restaurants costing three times as much. I often wind up spending less on a meal for four at Becco -- even at dinner when the sinfonia goes up to $21.95 -- than at purportedly cheaper restaurants because when you follow a real-world check-building model you can dine quite well on a restricted budget at Becco: an elaborate appetizer, three pastas, good wine, nice extras like their breadsticks and focaccia with bean puree (no charge), etc. So, yes, I consider it a good-value budget restaurant. I recommend it all the time to people on budgets who want to go out in the theater district and they mostly are very happy with what they get for their money at Becco.

I have little sympathy for those who self-censor. They have only themselves to blame for any sort of integrity problem. People should say what they think. Anything else is an excuse. Oh no, a restaurateur is going to respond to my posts online and attempt to "micromanage" the discussion. I better just roll over and play dead, and only ever say nice things about that person's restaurant. If any member of the eGullet Society is thinking that way, please, think again: you're doing a disservice to yourself, the community, the public and, yes, even the restaurant business.

Are your niece and her husband people like us who care about food and cooking, or are they normal people like most of the world's population? If they're part of the majority, just get whatever is on the registry and shut up about it. You're not going to get anywhere with an alternate strategy, and you'll just become one of the annoying people who felt he was too good to buy what they put on the registry. By registering, they've already told you what they want, so if you're planning to go against that you need to have a serious case to make. Remember also that if you don't get those knives someone else will. If they're legitimate food lovers or food lovers in the making, however, you should talk the issue through with them. Just come right out with it: I noticed you put this knife set on your registry. I'd be happy to buy it for you. However, I don't necessarily think it's a good choice. I don't wish to be the annoying relative who tries to impose an unwanted gift on you, so please don't feel any pressure here, but I'd be equally happy to buy you a first-rate knife starter setup from a professional cutlery source, and offer you some advice on how to use it. Your choice. Something like that.

One factual point that I think should be made clear: The infamous review under discussion describes "a special pre-opening dinner for the tight-knit group of obsessive foodies, waiters, chefs, magazine executives and restaurant critics who make up the local eGullet contingent." The two special dinners at Rare -- the opening soon dinner and the black box dinner were not eGullet Society events. They were events arranged by Edible British Columbia, a private business specializing in "Personalized Culinary Itineraries and Travel Planning." As with any other special culinary event of merit, we upon request added each event as a listing on the eG Calendar. Several eGullet Society members attended those events, however they were not eGullet Society events. I'd also suggest that those of us who participate in this "endlessly amusing soap opera disguised as a serious on-line forum for local culinary discussions" are always happy to read and discuss the occasional "not amusing rant disguised as a serious newspaper restaurant review."

I think it's more comfortable to think that the copying was necessitated by a lack of creative ability, but the evidence doesn't support that position. The chef in question appears to be talented and creative. Look at the elaborate tasting menu being offered right now. I haven't cross-referenced it against the menus at every other avant-garde restaurant in the world, but prima facie there appears to be plenty of creativity and skill there. The restaurant's accolades were earned at least partly (and probably mostly or even completely) on merit. That's a large part of why this plagiarism episode is so tragic: because it didn't have to happen.

I don't think we have to agree to disagree. I think I have to explain myself better. I'm not saying it's easier to create the dish than it is to copy it. I'm saying that, especially with dishes involving so much technical proficiency, it's easier or certainly just as easy to follow the process with enough variation to avoid outright plagiarism than it is to copy exactly in the manner of a plagiarist. Nor am I saying the variant dish will be as good. It will, however, be different. At this point, though, if I haven't made my point clearly enough I'll just drop it.

I agree with that, however what I said was "If you have the technical skill to copy the food served at Alinea and WD-50, it's probably harder to create the exact replicas than it is to do something different enough to call your own."

It's a serious newspaper. But serious newspapers give their columnists and critics a lot of freedom. Look at someone like Maureen Dowd in the New York Times. To get back to the topic at hand, I think it's a real shame if someone feels he or she isn't free to speak ill of a bad dish or a bad meal. But the consequences of saying what you believe are . . . what exactly? People will disagree with you? You won't get invited to some other member's birthday party? I think those who hold back do a disservice to others and have only themselves to blame. Maybe it's easier to go with the herd, but that's only if your priorities are superficial. If your priorities involve self-respect and integrity, you'll say what you believe.

Try copying one of those dishes at home and you'll see. Sure, it's easier to copy great literature than it is to write great literature, but that's because great literature can be copied with a photocopy machine or by retyping it into a word processor. There is no equivalent of a photocopy machine or word processor for cooking. Likewise, the Jimi Hendrix example is backward: the hardest thing would be to play exactly like Jimi Hendrix, and for anyone who had the skill to play exactly like Jimi Hendrix it would be easier just to play than to mimic him exactly. It wouldn't likely come out better than Jimi Hendrix, but it would be easy to be different. Not to mention, giving credit takes no effort, but that's a different issue. If you think about how cooking works for a moment, you'll see that it's more difficult to copy a technically demanding dish from a restaurant exactly than it is to produce something different. If a dish has three technically demanding elements it's easier to reproduce one of them and serve it with garnishes you already know how to make, on whatever serviceware you have around or can get from your local supplier, than it is to reproduce all three elements of the original dish exactly and serve them on identical serviceware from halfway around the world in a picture-perfect copy of the original. It doesn't take a creative genius to make prawn noodles with lobster instead of prawns and to serve them with, say, a piece of lobster. A chef who introduced minor variations such as these might not be terribly creative, but he wouldn't be a plagiarist. If you look at the photos on the first page here, what you see is the work not of someone who needed to copy, but rather of someone who wanted to.

I doubt the cheese is fake. To me fake cheese would be cheese not made from milk. I bet the cheese used at the Olive Garden is made from milk. It's certainly bad cheese, but not likely fake.

Looks like what the cooking supply catalogs call a "perforated French bread pan."

When you consider the value proposition, although it costs a few dollars more than the rock-bottom of the budget Italian restaurant pool, Becco has got to be the best deal going.

I think it is important to note that all awards and accolades were received or decided well before his trip to the US. This is not a statement of defence, but a statement of fact. Speculate from it what you will. ← Deco, you're clearly well-versed in the local scene down under and in the facts here. Do you think you could draw us up a timeline? I'd be interested to know when Interlude opened, what awards and reviews it received and when, when Wickens traveled to the US to observe and dine, etc. Also, on the topic in the Australia forum, you called out several other restaurants in Australia that you felt were copying dishes from Fat Duck and other places. I think it would be interesting to repeat that list here. Is this type of conduct endemic to Australia? Is it global?

As mentioned above, those who plagiarize rarely need to. If you have the technical skill to copy the food served at Alinea and WD-50, it's probably harder to create the exact replicas than it is to do something different enough to call your own.

Does anybody know the location of this year's Passover store?

Two more newspaper stories appeared today regarding this issue. The first, from the Sydney Morning Herald, titled "A grain of truth and a pinch of salt," appears to be a fairly extensive piece -- the online version runs four pages. I think it's the best piece done to date on the issue, and it contains some welcome questioning of the "you can't copyright a recipe" conventional wisdom -- though I think the larger point to be made is that this isn't copying of a recipe (the idea) but rather copying of a finished dish, the preparation, plating and even naming (the execution of the idea) so I'm not sure the recipe copyright issue is even relevant. Unfortunately, Wickens continues to cling to the claim that "I didn't try to claim the credit for them" (for the replicated dishes, that is). The repetition of this statement is, at least for me, the reason it's hard to let the Wickens matter rest. The Morning Herald, in my opinion correctly, observes, "Wickens's defence appears to express regret primarily for being caught." I think it's also worth pointing out that the statements, repeatedly made, that Wickens never tried to take credit for the dishes is absurd. It would be like an author saying, "I copied that other author's words, but never claimed they were mine." Well, you put your name on the book, you put your name on the menu, and these aren't dishes like Caesar salad that are part of common culinary knowledge and culture. Serving them and not attributing them equals claiming they're yours. The second, which is now I believe the third story in the Age about this, is titled "Is copying a fancy dish flattery?" I think this statment, based on interviews with two chefs, is a good summary: "But there is a difference, Grossi and Claringbold say, between inspired creation and mimicry. One is a perfectly acceptable way for a chef to build their own style, the other morally questionable."

We get some Australian fish here in New York, so I've had the chance to taste a couple of examples (John Dory and Barramundi) repeatedly, and I've had some in Canada (ling) and some in Singapore (several species). Based on that limited exposure I'd say any recipe that calls for sole would work quite well with John Dory and for the meatier ones like Atlantic cod I'd suggest Barramundi (for so-called black cod, ling should work nicely as a substitute). I wouldn't stress about it too much. In real restaurant kitchens, even at the high end, they make some pretty broad fish substitutions. Most recipes can tolerate changes among white-fleshed fish. You run into trouble primarily when you switch between major categories, like you try to substitute tuna for cod -- that's not going to work particularly well in most cases!

Prices vary by region. You can enter your Zip code on olivegarden.com and it will give you local prices. I compared these items, randomly selected, between New York, NY and Raleigh, NC: New York: Hot Artichoke-Spinach Dip A blend of artichokes, spinach and cream cheese. Served with Tuscan bread. 8.95 Raleigh: Hot Artichoke-Spinach Dip A blend of artichokes, spinach and cream cheese. Served with Tuscan bread. 6.25 New York: Three Meat Ravioli Ravioli filled with beef, Italian sausage and chicken topped with sage-butter and basil-marinara sauces, drizzled with fresh pesto. 16.25 Raleigh: Three Meat Ravioli Ravioli filled with beef, Italian sausage and chicken topped with sage-butter and basil-marinara sauces, drizzled with fresh pesto. 11.25 New York: Shrimp and Crab Ravioli Shrimp and crab-filled ravioli in a creamy seafood sauce, topped with shrimp and sun-dried tomatoes. 17.50 Raleigh: Shrimp and Crab Ravioli Shrimp and crab-filled ravioli in a creamy seafood sauce, topped with shrimp and sun-dried tomatoes. 12.95

There are family-oriented tourist attractions all over New York City. There absolutely are plenty of kids at the Tenement Museum. There are kids at the South Street Seaport, shopping in the Village, visiting Chinatown and Little Italy, walking on the Brooklyn Bridge, taking the Staten Island Ferry....

Yeah, tourists never eat at Nobu. They never shop in SoHo. They never go to the Tenement Museum. I never see any tourists at the restaurants and attractions downtown. Likewise, I never see any New Yorkers in Midtown.

You could make exactly the same statement about restaurant locations with respect to every New York Time four-star and Michelin three-star restaurant in New York City. They're all also in locations heavily trafficked by tourists: the Time Warner Center, Central Park South, Columbus Circle, the Equitable Center, near Bloomingdale's, etc. The statement is not necessarily accurate, however, with respect to the chains. Looking at your list of examples, TGI Friday's is a good place to start. Not only does TGI Friday's operate ten restaurants in Manhattan, it also originated here. It's as New York as you can get: the first Friday's was at 63rd and First. In addition to its Times Square location, the Olive Garden has a location at 22nd and Sixth. Red Lobster has a location in Elmhurst. Applebee's is in Battery Park, Rego Park, Flatbush, Riverdale and sevearal other locations.

Every foodie wants to believe that, but it's just not true. I've met plenty of folks who, even after being spoon fed the superior alternatives, just haven't cared enough to depart from their previous routines. To most people, the quality of what they eat simply is not important. I repeat, they assign it zero or close to zero importance. Deal with it.

Yeah but they're here for the tourists. I don't know any proper NYer who patronizes any of them. ← As a "proper New Yorker" -- my mother was born at Mount Sinai hospital, I was born at Mount Sinai hospital, my son was born at Mount Sinai hospital -- I can say with the voice of authority and experience that there are millions of "proper New Yorkers" who have no taste or discernment whatsoever when it comes to food. While New York is home to a large portion of the cream of the crop of the gourmet community, the population as a whole is nearly as food-ignorant as the population anywhere else. Not all New Yorkers are foodies. Not even a small percentage are. That's why we have so many bad restaurants -- not just chains, either: there are bad restaurants of all kinds here. Marian Burros wrote about the chains in the New York Times in June 2003 in an article "Chains Bring Strip Mall Flavor, Or Lack of It, To Manhattan." The article, well researched, does not support the theory that only tourists dine at the chains. A particularly telling expert quote:

Raji, the chains thrive in New York City as well. McDonald's, Olive Garden, Outback, Domino's . . . lots of them are here and doing very well.

Here's the deal with the salad and breadsticks: both have to be ordered dry. With the salad, ask for oil and vinegar on the side. With the breadsticks, ask them not to spread any of that artificial-tasting crap topping on them (this not only gets you better breadsticks but also forces them to be baked to order). It's a weak meal, to be sure, but if you happen to be in strip-mall purgatory and it's the only option because it's Sunday and Chick-Fil-A is closed, you can survive on salad and breadsticks at Olive Garden.