Vetri's Osteria

[Vadouvan]

Ok It's been open long enough.

After extensive mathematics and 15 meals.....

Time for the Laban Prediction Index.

0 Bells 1 Million To 1

1 Bell 50,000 To 1

2 Bells 75 To 1

3 Bells Most Likely Ding ,ding,ding,ding (lights flashing)

4 Bells 5 to 1

Edited March 17, 2007 by Vadouvan (log)

[dagordon]

I feel obliged to say that we've been back to Osteria a couple of times since my first extremely glowing post, and, while it's been very good, it has not been at the same mind-blowing level as our first meal there.

For example, tonight we had the manila clams, which were good, but the broth that the clams were in could have been so much more flavorful.

We also had the bucatini with testa ragu. The texture of this pasta was just incredible; like the candele, it has a chewy, noodle-like quality that can only be achieved with hand-made pasta. But the dish was, overall, shockingly tasteless. One could tell that there was some butter and oil and cheese in the dish, but none of these elements (let alone the testa) registered particularly strongly on the palate. It's possible that some salt would have substantially improved things, though unfortunately I didn't have my jacket which contains my travel box of Maldon with me and I didn't think to ask for salt. But that the dish was enjoyable to eat is a testament to the quality of the pasta itself.

Again, the quality of the food is still very good; unfortunately, though, it seems like there was some kind of magic going on right after they opened that, for now, has been lost.

Edited March 23, 2007 by dagordon (log)

[KatieLoeb]

though unfortunately I didn't have my jacket which contains my travel box of Maldon with me

The very fact that you have a travel box of Maldon, somehow does not surprise me in the least.

[guzzirider]

We also had the bucatini with testa ragu. The texture of this pasta was just incredible; like the candele, it has a chewy, noodle-like quality that can only be achieved with hand-made pasta. But the dish was, overall, shockingly tasteless. One could tell that there was some butter and oil and cheese in the dish, but none of these elements (let alone the testa) registered particularly strongly on the palate. It's possible that some salt would have substantially improved things, though unfortunately I didn't have my jacket which contains my travel box of Maldon with me and I didn't think to ask for salt. But that the dish was enjoyable to eat is a testament to the quality of the pasta itself.

Hmmm... Cherie and I had the bucatini when we were in a couple weeks ago, and it was really good that night... actually, it was a toss-up for me for favorite dish, between that and the Pizza Lombarda. The one we had definitely wasn't lacking in flavor... in fact, I was doing my best to soak up whatever sauce I could with bread afterwords...

You are definitely right about the texture - it makes me want to start making my own pasta at home, because anything I buy at the store is crap in comparison...

__Jason

[mandabear]

i guess his belongs on another post but the pasta i make at home is no where near as good as vetri's

[Andrew Fenton]

Is the bucatini actually hand-made? Traditionally, it's not a fresh pasta, but a dried one. (I don't even know how you would make it by hand.) I could certainly be wrong, but it seems much more likely that it's a top-quality dried imported pasta.

[dagordon]

Is the bucatini actually hand-made?  Traditionally, it's not a fresh pasta, but a dried one.  (I don't even know how you would make it by hand.)  I could certainly be wrong, but it seems much more likely that it's a top-quality dried imported pasta.

←

If that stuff is imported dried pasta, I'll treat whoever can tell me what brand it is and where to get it to a Pizza Lombarda and a glass of wine. It's has a completely different texture from any dried pasta I've ever had.

[Vadouvan]

You are definitely right about the texture - it makes me want to start making my own pasta at home, because anything I buy at the store is crap in comparison...

__Jason

s the bucatini actually hand-made? Traditionally, it's not a fresh pasta, but a dried one. (I don't even know how you would make it by hand.) I could certainly be wrong, but it seems much more likely that it's a top-quality dried imported pasta.

If that stuff is imported dried pasta, I'll treat whoever can tell me what brand it is and where to get it to a Pizza Lombarda and a glass of wine. It's has a completely different texture from any dried pasta I've ever had.

First of all david you owe me a pizza, i'll pass on the wine unless it's a Moscato D'asti post pizza.

First of all..

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&sa=N...F-8&um=1&tab=wi

Bucatini is nearly impossible to make by hand.

Osteria has a several thousand dollar machine that makes "extruded" pasta.

You cant make extruded pasta by hand with any degree ofconsistent sucess.

They also made the Candele in house with the same extrusion method.

To further complicate your hopeless situation of trying to make this pasta at home.

Osteria alos imports it's pasta and pizza flour from Italy and that is key to the flavor and texture.

Translation: Dont even go there, you cant do it.

Period.

So now you see why the food there can be considered a bargain for the work that goes into it.

I agree with gordon a pinch of salt and perhaps mace does the trick.

Unless you have 8 grand to spend.....

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...sa%3DG...forget it.

Alternately, buy rustichela d'abruzzo pasta

http://www.rustichella.it/English/home_eng.html

great stuff.

[Andrew Fenton]

Unless you have 8 grand to spend.....

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...sa%3DG...forget it.

Well, my birthday is coming up...

Vadouvan, do you have an idea how many restaurants in the US make their own paste secche? That's pretty hard-core!

[guzzirider]

I don't pretend to think that I'll ever make pasta of Vetri's quality at home. My point is that it's somewhat turned me off to store bought pasta. If I can manage to make something at home that is somehow a happy medium between store-bought crap, and Vetri's amazing stuff, I'd be thrilled. Hell, if it was just a half a notch above store-bought, I'd consider it job well done.

Besides, it's just another excuse for me to futz around in the kitchen...

__Jason

[HD73]

You are definitely right about the texture - it makes me want to start making my own pasta at home, because anything I buy at the store is crap in comparison...

__Jason

s the bucatini actually hand-made? Traditionally, it's not a fresh pasta, but a dried one. (I don't even know how you would make it by hand.) I could certainly be wrong, but it seems much more likely that it's a top-quality dried imported pasta.

If that stuff is imported dried pasta, I'll treat whoever can tell me what brand it is and where to get it to a Pizza Lombarda and a glass of wine. It's has a completely different texture from any dried pasta I've ever had.

First of all david you owe me a pizza, i'll pass on the wine unless it's a Moscato D'asti post pizza.

First of all..

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&sa=N...F-8&um=1&tab=wi

Bucatini is nearly impossible to make by hand.

Osteria has a several thousand dollar machine that makes "extruded" pasta.

You cant make extruded pasta by hand with any degree ofconsistent sucess.

They also made the Candele in house with the same extrusion method.

To further complicate your hopeless situation of trying to make this pasta at home.

Osteria alos imports it's pasta and pizza flour from Italy and that is key to the flavor and texture.

Translation: Dont even go there, you cant do it.

Period.

So now you see why the food there can be considered a bargain for the work that goes into it.

I agree with gordon a pinch of salt and perhaps mace does the trick.

Unless you have 8 grand to spend.....

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...sa%3DG...forget it.

Alternately, buy rustichela d'abruzzo pasta

http://www.rustichella.it/English/home_eng.html

great stuff.

←

I think he's getting at least some of that flour through DiBruno's, based on a conversation I overheard behind the counter right when Osteria was about to open. No idea what brand or type, but they were discussing "Vetri's flour order for the new place."

[dagordon]

First of all david you owe me a pizza, i'll pass on the wine unless it's a Moscato D'asti post pizza.

First of all..

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&sa=N...F-8&um=1&tab=wi

Bucatini is nearly impossible to make by hand.

Osteria has a several thousand dollar machine that makes "extruded" pasta.

You cant make extruded pasta by hand with any degree ofconsistent sucess.

They also made the Candele in house with the same extrusion method.

To further complicate your hopeless situation of trying to make this pasta at home.

Osteria alos imports it's pasta and pizza flour from Italy and that is key to the flavor and texture.

Translation: Dont even go there, you cant do it.

Period.

So now you see why the food there can be considered a bargain for the work that goes into it.

I agree with gordon a pinch of salt and perhaps mace does the trick.

Unless you have 8 grand to spend.....

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...sa%3DG...forget it.

Aw, come on, that's what I meant. I knew from you, V, that that's how they made the candele, and I figured they did the same thing with the bucatini.

I suppose "fresh pasta" or "home made" would have been more appropriate. I was contrasting it with dried pasta.

And I was NOT suggesting that I could replicate this at home.

Alternately, buy rustichela d'abruzzo pasta

http://www.rustichella.it/English/home_eng.html

great stuff.

←

We actually have a bunch of their bucatini (Di Bruno's sells it), we made some for dinner on Tuesday. It is great dried pasta. But, like guzzirider said, once you've had Osteria's...

Edited March 23, 2007 by dagordon (log)

[Andrew Fenton]

I don't pretend to think that I'll ever make pasta of Vetri's quality at home. My point is that it's somewhat turned me off to store bought pasta. If I can manage to make something at home that is somehow a happy medium between store-bought crap, and Vetri's amazing stuff, I'd be thrilled. Hell, if it was just a half a notch above store-bought, I'd consider it job well done.

You might be surprised. There are plenty of good-quality dry pastas out there. If you pick one of those, and know a few basic techniques, you can cook great pasta at home.

One thing to bear in mind is that, to Italians, the fresh/dried pasta divide isn't one that's based on quality, it's based on region. Fresh pasta, to them, isn't better, it's northern. Fresh, homemade pasta can be fantastic, but you only use it for certain kinds of recipes; for others, you want dry pasta.

Besides, it's just another excuse for me to futz around in the kitchen...

Which of course is reason in itself!

[dagordon]

Vadouvan, do you have an idea how many restaurants in the US make their own paste secche?  That's pretty hard-core!

←

Whoa... wait, was V saying that that Osteria actually makes their own dried pasta with that machine? That would be hard-core... but I didn't think that's what he was saying. V?

[Andrew Fenton]

Maybe we have a terminology issue here... I'm using "fresh pasta" to mean "soft pasta, usually made with egg" like tortellini. "Dry pasta" is pretty much just flour and water, like farfalle or bucatini. Obviously it's not dry when it's coming out of the machine, but it dries really quickly. Presumably Osteria could dry, package and sell their bucatini...

[dagordon]

I agree with gordon a pinch of salt and perhaps mace does the trick.

Geez... I said the dish was lacking flavor, but I don't think that assaulting the staff would have been appropriate...

[Capaneus]

Maybe we have a terminology issue here...  I'm using "fresh pasta" to mean "soft pasta, usually made with egg" like tortellini.  "Dry pasta" is pretty much just flour and water, like farfalle or bucatini.  Obviously it's not dry when it's coming out of the machine, but it dries really quickly.  Presumably Osteria could dry, package and sell their bucatini...

←

Yeah, I think the rest of us were thinking "House-made pasta", as opposed to "outside-supplier-purchased pasta". The "fresh" part just seems to me to follow naturaly from the fact that the restaurant makes its own.

[Andrew Fenton]

Maybe we have a terminology issue here...  I'm using "fresh pasta" to mean "soft pasta, usually made with egg" like tortellini.  "Dry pasta" is pretty much just flour and water, like farfalle or bucatini.  Obviously it's not dry when it's coming out of the machine, but it dries really quickly.  Presumably Osteria could dry, package and sell their bucatini...

←

Yeah, I think the rest of us were thinking "House-made pasta", as opposed to "outside-supplier-purchased pasta". The "fresh" part just seems to me to follow naturaly from the fact that the restaurant makes its own.

←

Fair enough: I was thinking in terms of the Italian distinction between pasta fresca and pasta secca...

[shacke]

I don't pretend to think that I'll ever make pasta of Vetri's quality at home. My point is that it's somewhat turned me off to store bought pasta. If I can manage to make something at home that is somehow a happy medium between store-bought crap, and Vetri's amazing stuff, I'd be thrilled. Hell, if it was just a half a notch above store-bought, I'd consider it job well done.

Besides, it's just another excuse for me to futz around in the kitchen...

__Jason

←

Making fresh pasta at home is not hard particularly if you stick to fettucine, papaerdelle, orechiette - easy to do with a rolling pin, pizza cutter and a thumb. Tubes are tough to do manually. you can but it will take you forever - you will be an Italian granma when you are through. The hard part is what to do with the pasta when you are through. I find that fresh pasta is less forgiving than dried and doesnt stand well alone. A bowl of fresh pasta with oil and salt is dwarfed in satisfaction by it's dried cousin.

I suspect the flour they use may be Tipo 00 , a lower protein flour that is a staple in Italy. It's hard to get in the US - I used to get it at Caviar Assouline but can't anymore. That explains the need to special order it. IIRC, cake flour and regular all purpose blended together gives you a bastardized substitute.

Edited March 24, 2007 by shacke (log)

[matthewj]

V. do they have a Parmigiana machine, (a dry pasta extruder?)They are great. Dry pasta can be as good as it's counter part. I believe that sometimes dry is sometimes times better than the laminated pastas. Depending on the sauce and dish you want to confer.

Tipo 00, and 0, can be bought online, plus Franc vin has a great 00.

but for dry pasta, many times it is only semoilna and water.

[Vadouvan]

To answer everyone's questions......

Osteria does not use OO flour, they use a special Semolina they buy directly from an Italian Importer, I just ordered 4 bags today.

They dont buy flour from Dibruno.

As Fenton said, American obsess about the word "fresh".

Most fresh pasta has to be dried somewhat before cooking.

Osteria makes and extrudes it Candele and then dries it before it's cooked.

No human being had the physical capacity to make "extruded pasta"

It has to be made by Machine.

The reason most people cannot replicate restaurant quality pasta at home is because they cook pasta and put sauce on top of it.

The correct way is too cook pasta and finish it in the sauce,

[matthewj]

V I will send you some flour that we use. we have an extruder here, as well as a a machine to help with the laminated pastas

[lfabio2007]

Osteria alos imports it's pasta and pizza flour from Italy and that is key to the flavor and texture.

Translation: Dont even go there, you cant do it.

Period.

←

If I may, things are a bit more complicated and a bit simpler than that: egg pasta - traditional in Emilia and Romagna primarily - is made with 00 flour. Yes, a lot of people like to cut it with durum wheat semolina to make the texture more predictable and make the cooking easier to handle, but traditionally this is not the way things should be done. This should be mixed by hand and rolled *with a wooden rolling pin on a wood surface* to give the surface the proper texture to grab to sauce.

Extruded pasta, which is traditionally 'dry' and made with durum wheat (actually, in Italy, legislation requires it), no eggs, is part of a different tradition which, for historical reasons, started farther south in Italy (Abruzzi and Molise are still the primary sources for the best pasta of this style), and it needs a machine with *bronze* extrusion inserts to be made properly. These are available in home-kitchen sizes, though, even in the States. So .. it may be difficult, but I wouldn't call it impossible to replicate - we do both at home, though I wouldn't dare say that our results on the final dishes are as good as Marc Vetri's.

As far as ready made pastas, we've had good luck with Montebello, available at Whole Foods, and with Molisana (which SHOULD be available here in the states, but I've been unable to find it).

As to their pizzas - which by the way are thin-crust, therefore *roman* style, not the thicker kind that you'd find in Naples - they're possibly the best I've had stateside, but they're still not perfect: a touch too bready and with a hint of sweetness that tells me that someone's been helping the yeast along with honey or sugar. I know, I am being *extremely* difficult, heck, even in Italy I'd call these very good and difficult to surpass, but given that Mr. Vetri in most other ways can be favourably compared to his best competitors in Milan, Turin or Rome, the distinction has to be made. Besides, this is another of my pet peeves about most baked goods here. It's a shortcut, I understand why it's done, but please, the better places can surely do without (one of the places that doesn't is the bakery - headed by a vietnamese gentleman who has lived in France for a long time, apparently - that Mr. Ansill goes to for the bread at Pif).

Incidentally, we've been to Osteria several times and we love it, but I will not call it a bargain. Full review to follow the next time we go back there. So many restaurants, so few spare calories.

Edited March 28, 2007 by lfabio2007 (log)

[matthewj]

are you saying that the yeast does not need sugar?

[matthewj]

Do you want the dough to rely on natural, cold fermentation,... really I am intrigued.