Best place in Bay Area for walking to top food

[Zingano]

Hi,

My husband and I are moving to the Bay Area in the spring, and looking for somewhere to live where we can walk to a wide variety of good restaurants and food shops. We also need to live near a park to walk our dogs. My husband will be working in Menlo Park and quite likes the idea of a train commute giving him time for uninterrupted work at each end of the day. I'll be working for a London company - i.e. from home :-)

At the moment we prefer the idea of living in the city and we've found a house we like on Broderick St in the Haight - but I'm concerned that the only eating nearby seems to be burger joints and pizza places.

Where would be a foodie's dream home be?

[eje]

Hi,

My husband and I are moving to the Bay Area in the spring, and looking for somewhere to live where we can walk to a wide variety of good restaurants and food shops. We also need to live near a park to walk our dogs. My husband will be working in Menlo Park and quite likes the idea of a train commute giving him time for uninterrupted work at each end of the day. I'll be working for a London company - i.e. from home :-)

At the moment we prefer the idea of living in the city and we've found a house we like on Broderick St in the Haight - but I'm concerned that the only eating nearby seems to be burger joints and pizza places.

Where would be a foodie's dream home be?

←

Have you been to the Haight?

I just ask, as it might not be everyone's cup of tea. If you enjoy, uh, San Francisco color, and drama, it can be fun.

There are, actually, quite a few good restaurants in the Haight, and the N Judah is not far to get you to downtown or out to the Asian restaurants and stores of the Sunset (and eventually Ocean Beach). Busses can take you to the Richmond, and the Clement Corridor, also rich in restaurants.

There were plans to put in a Whole Foods at Stanyon and Haight; but, apparently, the Haight Ashbury Improvement Association killed the deal. There are quite a few smaller natural foods stores in the neighborhood, a Safeway at Church and Market near the lower Haight, and Andronico's at 11th and Lincoln. All are within MUNI/walking distance.

I will also point out, that the commute to Menlo Park will include a 30-45 minute N Judah ride before your husband gets to the train (Cal Train) proper to commute to Menlo Park. I would guess at least an hour and a half each way for the commute, plus however long it takes to get from the train to work in Menlo Park.

Transit 511 can be really useful for getting ball park estimates for commutes in the Bay Area.

[Carolyn Tillie]

Okay, time to plug my neighborhood...

If you draw cross-hairs through all of San Francisco, I live dead center - on the corner of Webster & Geary, across the street from Japantown. For the past year, I have been somewhat documenting my exploration of this area in this thread. Being geographically in the center of the city, we are on a major busline (the 38) which cuts through the city and leads to all the other bus lines, but also has the distinct advantage that a cab-ride to almost any point in the city is only about $10 because you don't have to go from one side to the other.

Specifically to answer some of your queries, I not only have great Japanese food walking distance, but the very accessible Fillmore district for fabulous restaurants and shops. I can walk to a Safeway, four very good jazz clubs, more restaurants than I can count, and two dog parks that I know of. There are optometrists, cleaners, pet stores, spas, a movie theatre, furniture stores, wine shops, clothing stores, second-hand boutiques, and antique stores that I frequent.

Restaurant-wise, the only cuisine that I feel I am missing within walking distance is good Indian and good Middle Eastern. There is both an Indian and Middle Eastern restaurant on Fillmore (actually, across the street from one another), but neither of which come with decent reviews. There are two Ethiopian, four Korean, three Thai, eight to ten Italian (everything from the simple pizza joint to amazing artisinal pasta), one Peruvian, three to four Chinese (nothing exceptional, but sufficient when there are cravings), six or eight "American", a good sports bar (with a great Kobe burger), two or three taquerias, a creperie, two Michelin-star restaurants (Quince and Bushi-Tei, as if anyone cares about that), and obviously more Japanese than I can count

What can I say? I love where I live!

[MaxH]

My husband and I are moving to the Bay Area in the spring, and looking for somewhere to live where we can walk to a wide variety of good restaurants and food shops. We also need to live near a park to walk our dogs. My husband will be working in Menlo Park ... Where would be a foodie's dream home be?

Hard to answer for the whole Bay Area, indeed I don't know if anyone has the comprehensive perspective to answer the question objectively. (I don't, despite 45 years in the region, most of them frequenting restaurants.) Having said that though, several older small downtowns and SF neighborhoods have strong pedestrian-friendly restaurant concentrations. One unusually dense example (though not widely known outside the immediate area) is downtown Mountain View, two towns south of Menlo Park, on the CalTrain commuter line.* This is a small business district established a little more than 100 years ago, about four blocks long, embracing currently 87 restaurants and coffee and tea houses. This density compares to (for instance) Vienna's 1st district or parts of Hong Kong. The downtown MV Caltrain station is also right at the restaurant zone. Conveniently, a local family that eats out undertook to track the restaurants independently online, Here. That directory is updated often. I mentioned some of the restaurants (and the directory) on this forum before.

Edited to append: On side streets off the same district are at least three parks (the city has a practice of buying up lots occasionally and converting them to local parks), and a Farmers' Market on Sundays.

Good luck -- Max

* Once when I worked around a lot of European expats in the region, one of them, from Germany, spoke of the convenience of the CalTrain for himself and friends to go beer drinking, up and down the SF peninsula in all the little downtowns served by this train line. "Some of them have very good beer, and the trains even have convenient restrooms!" Since then, these downtowns have become known informally as the "train towns" and builders have accommodated the interest, among younger people especially, in living near the line and commuting on it, European-style. There's even a special freebie newspaper in newsracks (called what -- Whistle Stop?) organized around this trend.

Edited November 13, 2006 by MaxH (log)

[kitwilliams]

Anyone mentioned North Berkeley yet? Chez Panisse. Cheese Board. The French Hotel. Gregoire. Fat Apples. Cafe Fanny, Acme and Kermit Lynch not too far. The original Peet's. The new Epicurious Garden. Saul's Deli. Not too far to Berkeley Bowl. Black Oak Books (great used as well as new cookbook selection). And since you want to be within walking distance, The Walk Shop has the most fashionable yet comfortable/sensible shoes around.

As if that isn't enough, Berkeley has great express buses into SF. Not to mention BART.

Here's a link to an article in the Berkeley Daily Planet, all about the "gourmet ghetto".

North Berkeley

[Zingano]

Thanks for these excellent replies.

I do know the Haight, though only as a visitor, and I do wonder if the shops there are quite my cup of tea these days. The train commute does sound too long too, which would rule out this area, unless the drive was much shorter than 1.5 hours.

I've just bought the Zagat map and the Michelin guide and searched for concentrations of restaurants. Two areas that sprang out were Cow Hollow / Marina (I've walked through Marina, which was pleasant but perhaps rather gentrified. I don't know CH) and Hayes Valley (which I don't know either, and think is just south of you, Carolyn?) And there's downtown of course, where I am staying now, but it doesn't seem very dog friendly at all.

Thanks again everyone. I look forward to exploring your suggestions further.

[s_sevilla]

try the Rockridge district of Berkeley/Oakland Border......very very good concentration of top notch eateries, of all price points, Bart within Walking distance, parks in berkeley, and a really nice park not too far away in Montclair/piedmont, a doggie park in the Marina a short drive away....not to mention proximity to Berkeley Bowl

[robyn]

Hi,

My husband and I are moving to the Bay Area in the spring, and looking for somewhere to live where we can walk to a wide variety of good restaurants and food shops. We also need to live near a park to walk our dogs. My husband will be working in Menlo Park and quite likes the idea of a train commute giving him time for uninterrupted work at each end of the day. I'll be working for a London company - i.e. from home :-)

At the moment we prefer the idea of living in the city and we've found a house we like on Broderick St in the Haight - but I'm concerned that the only eating nearby seems to be burger joints and pizza places.

Where would be a foodie's dream home be?

←

Pardon my French - but I think you have to be nuts looking for places where you can walk to restaurants when you're talking about spending 3 hours commuting to work every day.

We've been both in San Francisco proper and the Palo Alto/Menlo Park area within the last year - and there are plenty of good places to eat in both. If I were in your shoes - I'd live where the commuting time is the shortest - assuming I could afford a place to live (just about all the real estate I looked at in that area was ridiculously expensive from a Floridian's point of view). Robyn

[PamelaF]

I agree with Robyn here, the commute time between San Francisco and Menlo Park is significant. You should look at the more dense areas in the suburbs (such as central Palo Alto) to provide a neighborhood feel with urban amenities. You will find streets with walkable shopping, restaurants and cafes (and probably also dog parks).

You will not find the same diversity as you would San Francisco, but that is what weekends are for.

Best,

[eje]

Thanks for these excellent replies.

I do know the Haight, though only as a visitor, and I do wonder if the shops there are quite my cup of tea these days. The train commute does sound too long too, which would rule out this area, unless the drive was much shorter than 1.5 hours.

[...]

←

I don't want to discourage you about the Haight, I just have no idea how much experience you have in the neighborhood, where exactly on Broderick your potential place might be, or what sort of neighborhood you want to live in. I know I probably wouldn't want to live within 2 blocks of the Upper Haight, just to avoid the drama, or on the blocks between the Upper Haight and the Cole Valley N Judah MUNI stop. I don't think I'm over sensitive. Just to be honest, there is a lot of drug trafficking, homelessness, and general craziness, especially in the upper haight. But, once you get a couple blocks away, you find quiet residential streets.

Unless you live within walking distance of one of the three CalTrain stops in San Francisco, you're going to be facing an SF MUNI commute to get to one of the stations. The only neighborhoods convenient to the CalTrain are what they are now calling "South Park" near the new Ball Park, and Potrero Hill.

Just to take the MUNI from where I used to live in Dolores Heights to the CalTrain took approximately 45 minutes. CalTrain took an half an hour to South San Francisco, then I had to take another shuttle from the CalTrain stop to the office. I'm sure where I live now in Bernal Heights, it would take me over an hour to get to CalTrain.

Probably take me longer to get to the CalTrain station than it would to drive to Menlo Park!

They do have some sort of "Baby Bullet" express service in operation now. I haven't taken it, so I'm not sure how much time it saves.

[VenerableBede]

Just to throw my two cents in here. . .if you don't mind a 1.5-2 hour commute each way, then by all means, hayes valley, noe valley or marina in san francisco all would be reasonable (i live in inner sunset which probably won't have the concentration and quality of restaurants you are looking for). another suggestion would be the richmond neighborhood in san francisco (not richmond the city though), but that's even further away from caltrain and bart.

however, i would strongly suggest looking at places in the peninsula like palo alto- the downtown area contains alot of restaurants of varying cuisines and is also much closer to menlo park.

[robyn]

Thanks for these excellent replies.

I do know the Haight, though only as a visitor, and I do wonder if the shops there are quite my cup of tea these days. The train commute does sound too long too, which would rule out this area, unless the drive was much shorter than 1.5 hours.

I've just bought the Zagat map and the Michelin guide and searched for concentrations of restaurants. Two areas that sprang out were Cow Hollow / Marina (I've walked through Marina, which was pleasant but perhaps rather gentrified. I don't know CH) and Hayes Valley (which I don't know either, and think is just south of you, Carolyn?) And there's downtown of course, where I am staying now, but it doesn't seem very dog friendly at all.

Thanks again everyone. I look forward to exploring your suggestions further.

←

I believe that if you live in San Francisco - and are commuting to Menlo Park - you will be "reverse commuting" (most people will be going in the opposite direction at rush hour). At least that was my perception when we were staying in Palo Alto last fall and driving around the area (although we stayed in the general area - and didn't go into the city - on an earlier trip - we stayed in the city). Someone more familiar with the area can correct me if I'm wrong. Nevertheless - in terms of driving - I think you're probably talking about a drive that's longer than an hour. Again - someone who's more familiar with the area can correct me if I'm wrong.

Your information says that you're from the Ukraine. If I were moving almost half-way around the world - I'd just try to get a short term rental (maybe 6 months) near where I was working - make the move - and then investigate on my own. Read. Talk with people I met. Learn about commuting distances - what I liked - didn't like - etc. Which will be very personal to you. You didn't mention whether or not you have or plan to have children. That would be a very big consideration in terms of where to live in the Bay Area. In terms of dogs - well I don't like dogs - sorry - so I have never looked at any place from a dog-lover's point of view.

The one thing I can tell you is there are lots of good restaurants throughout the Bay Area. I actually liked some we went to in the San Jose/Palo Alto area more than some we dined at in San Francisco.

For what it's worth - one of the areas mentioned near a CalTrain stop - South Park - if I am remembering it correctly - is kind of a wasteland. I went there to go to a furniture store (Limn) - but it wasn't exactly my idea of an urban paradise. We walked around for about 20 minutes after visiting Limn (which is a great destination contemporary furniture store) - and did wind up eating a nice lunch. But the area was kind of underpopulated in terms of "city things" - and I don't think I'd want to walk around there at night. Again - someone more familiar with the general area can correct me if my geography is wrong. Robyn

[eje]

[...]

For what it's worth - one of the areas mentioned near a CalTrain stop - South Park - if I am remembering it correctly - is kind of a wasteland....But the area was kind of underpopulated in terms of "city things" - and I don't think I'd want to walk around there at night.  Again - someone more familiar with the general area can correct me if my geography is wrong.  Robyn

←

I absolutely agree with you on the neighborhood. Despite the city's best efforts to build up a community around the ball park and the Mission Bay developments, it still feels pretty much like a wasteland to me, especially at night.

But, it, and Potrero (near 22nd), are the only San Francisco neighborhoods close enough to be a 15 minutes walk to CalTrain.

(Yes, there is also the Paul Avenue stop in Bayview Hunter's Point.)

[pim]

I believe that if you live in San Francisco - and are commuting to Menlo Park - you will be "reverse commuting" (most people will be going in the opposite direction at rush hour).  At least that was my perception when we were staying in Palo Alto last fall and driving around the area (although we stayed in the general area - and didn't go into the city - on an earlier trip - we stayed in the city).  Someone more familiar with the area can correct me if I'm wrong. 

←

Yes you are. Wrong, that is. Have you heard that SF is a bedroom community for Silicon Valley?

I did that commute, SF-Silicon valley for years up until earlier last year. I lived in Pacific Heights, far further north than where Carolyn lives. And let me tell you getting to Caltrain -on the rare days I took the train to work- wasn't easy. I either had to drive across town and leave my car at a carpark near the station, or it would mean 45+ minutes bus ride to the train station. That meant something like 2 hours door-door.

If your husband is planning on commuting by train to work I suggest the area near Caltrain on 4th and King. There are plenty of new lofts, if that's your style. You can walk to the farmers market at the Ferry Plaza, and a few other restaurants nearby. The street cars are pretty easy from there as well.

Another community I'd recommend is south Mission of Noe Valley, the area around the 24th st. station where your husband can catch the train in the mornings. There are plenty of good food places in the Mission and Noe Valley. The area is also pretty easy for car commute as well.

Commute from the East Bay to the Valley, with or without a car, is pure hell. I don't recommend it to anyone.

[cstuart]

I live close to Church and Market and have to say it's a great area food wise.

There are tons of options in the immediate, walking distance/short cab ride area(zuni, destino, chow, home, tartine, orbit room, etc), 16th/Valencia is a short walk(and you don't want to live any closer than that), Hayes Valley is a short cab/muni ride, Noe Valley is a short muni ride, and anywhere downtown is a short muni ride. BiRite is close for shopping, as is Harvest, but I never go there so don't really know how good it is, but it looks pretty nice.

The actual area around Church and Market can be a little crazy but Duboce Triangle is nicer and calmer. Also, above Dolores Park towards Noe Valley is really nice and has great views. And the weather here is the best in the city. It's amazing sometimes how it can be totally sunny here while most of the city is covered in fog or clouds.

[MaxH]

Robyn and Bede and Pim have it right: soul-draining commutes separate otherwise great food neighborhoods from Peninsula jobs. Bay Area cities never adopted the comprehensive, regional approach to public transit done in many comparable modern population centers. (Bay Area mass transit is a patchwork of systems some of which work well. For instance, contradicting its name, the "Bay Area" Rapid Transit District embraces only part of the Bay Area, whose individual towns even picked and chose elements of BART during planning; some towns refused it completely.) Where transit works, people don't notice; but regionally there are vast "holes" where (Burt Nye's famous line, rural Maine accent) You Cahn't Get Theah From Heah. From the Oakland-Berkeley-Albany area to the mid-peninsula or South Bay you drive, with lots of company. These commutes were wretched 25 years ago, they're grotesque now. (Experience speaking.)

Otherwise, North Berkeley and the Rockridge are among the best pedestrian food-enthusiast spots in the Bay Area. (North Berkeley's is the most famous: the Gourmet Ghetto and its history have many past postings on eGullet and elsewhere.) All such Bay Area food zones I know about have one thing in common: they are in districts built up in pre-automobile days, with pedestrian life in mind. Unlike post-1950 suburbs, though there's a recent reversal of this [1].

Other charming traditional pedestrian business districts are found all over the Bay Area. Besides some mentioned already, those with restaurant concentrations and small-town feel include downtown Burlingame (Broadway), downtown San Mateo (3rd Avenue), and the California Avenue neighborhood of Palo Alto with its modest but unique, very popular group of restaurants. All of these have convenient CalTrain stops. (Though none I believe approaches the restaurant count of downtown Mountain View mentioned upthread.) Downtown Redwood City is also on CalTrain. I don't know it much, but a few years ago it put a promotional billboard on Highway 101: "Downtown Redwood City: Palo Alto without the attitude." Its slogan from an earlier era was revived in modern times on a neon sign, visible from the train:

Climate Best, by Government Test!

[1] Remarkably the pendulum of city planning has swung back to the older wisdom of this "village" approach. You can witness this in the recent construction of complete self-contained villages merging residences, workplaces, businesses, and, mirabile dictu, even transit -- cars are optional, some residents don't need them. A radical reversal from "bedroom communities" of the Shopping Mall Era. Examples of the new style are at Santana Row in San José and, even more markedly, the San Mateo complex (name?) on former Bay Meadows racetrack land off E. Hillsdale near Hwy 101.

[robyn]

I believe that if you live in San Francisco - and are commuting to Menlo Park - you will be "reverse commuting" (most people will be going in the opposite direction at rush hour).  At least that was my perception when we were staying in Palo Alto last fall and driving around the area (although we stayed in the general area - and didn't go into the city - on an earlier trip - we stayed in the city).  Someone more familiar with the area can correct me if I'm wrong. 

←

Yes you are. Wrong, that is. Have you heard that SF is a bedroom community for Silicon Valley?

I did that commute, SF-Silicon valley for years up until earlier last year. I lived in Pacific Heights, far further north than where Carolyn lives. And let me tell you getting to Caltrain -on the rare days I took the train to work- wasn't easy. I either had to drive across town and leave my car at a carpark near the station, or it would mean 45+ minutes bus ride to the train station. That meant something like 2 hours door-door.

If your husband is planning on commuting by train to work I suggest the area near Caltrain on 4th and King. There are plenty of new lofts, if that's your style. You can walk to the farmers market at the Ferry Plaza, and a few other restaurants nearby. The street cars are pretty easy from there as well.

Another community I'd recommend is south Mission of Noe Valley, the area around the 24th st. station where your husband can catch the train in the mornings. There are plenty of good food places in the Mission and Noe Valley. The area is also pretty easy for car commute as well.

Commute from the East Bay to the Valley, with or without a car, is pure hell. I don't recommend it to anyone.

←

Think you might have gotten me mixed up with the original poster - but thanks for the information about the commuting.

I'll note that we were tourists in the Palo Alto area - and pretty much stayed off the roads during rush hour (no reason to kill ourselves to get an early start just to wind up stuck in traffic). Traffic wasn't bad at all (by California standards) during non-rush hours.

As for Max' mention of Santana Row in San Jose - we really liked it the day we went there (nice farmer's market - beautiful meal - great weather - what could be bad?). I'm a pretty suburban person (I don't need drunks, drug addicts or homeless people to make my day) so the fact that it is "new kind of phony urban" didn't bother me at all. I think it has apartments/condos - but I'd hate to see what they cost (the price of real estate in the San Jose area was really quite staggering - perhaps the rentals are a relative bargain).

FWIW - I think one factor in this selection process has to be weather. One day we left Palo Alto. It was a gorgeous September day - bright and sunny and 80. Drove maybe 35 minutes to the coast and it was 55 and cloudy and damp. Robyn

[VenerableBede]

FWIW - I think one factor in this selection process has to be weather.  One day we left Palo Alto.  It was a gorgeous September day - bright and sunny and 80.  Drove maybe 35 minutes to the coast and it was 55 and cloudy and damp.  Robyn

←

ahhh yes, the microclimates in the bay area. . .temps can change by as much as 20 degrees if you go less than 20 miles. i live in san francisco, and during the heat wave it was 70 degress at my house in inner sunset, drove to SFO and it shot up to over 90 degrees on the way to the airport.

[MaxH]

As for Max' mention of Santana Row in San Jose - we really liked it the day we went there (nice farmer's market - beautiful meal - great weather - what could be bad?).  ... the fact that it is "new kind of phony urban" didn't bother me at all.

Thing is, Santana Row stands out as sort of incongruous, because it's a self-contained village assembled recently in the middle of an area that was already built up. But it has siblings elsewhere that show off more obviously the benefits of this new multi-use or "village" type of new construction. Above I mentioned a parallel (2003) development in San Mateo where open fields used to be. That complex accompanied buildings for some large employers and CalTrain. Literally some residents walk to work.

I think [santana Row] has apartments/condos - but I'd hate to see what they cost (the price of real estate in the San Jose area was really quite staggering ...)

That's true of most parts of the Bay Area where people want to live. (It goes along with steady numbers of people arriving from out of town to fill good jobs, complaining that the region is crowded, expensive, has too much traffic, etc. etc. Occasionally, they will reflect that these are all different facets of one and the same situation. But the irony of, for instance, a new arrival with out-of-area license plates complaining about traffic congestion is usually grasped only from a distance.)

[eje]

[...]

Other charming traditional pedestrian business districts are found all over the Bay Area.

[...]

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To me this is the take away message.

I've lived in 3 neighborhoods in the bay area and have friends who have lived in several others. Frankly, it's almost hard to find a neighborhood that is not "foodie friendly".

OK, you might have to adjust your goals of walking to Michelin starred restaurants, if you decide to live in Sebastapol or Petaluma. But, probably, you will find things that are even more interesting! Your neighbor's garden or that enormous Persimmon tree in yours.

In San Francisco, the Mission, Noe, Castro juncture cstuart recommends is particularly magical. If we were younger, my wife and I would probably still be living there.

[MaxH]

Frankly, it's almost hard to find a neighborhood that is not "foodie friendly." ... you might have to adjust your goals ... if you decide to live in Sebastapol or Petaluma.

I resonate with the spirit of these comments.

There is some real range of neighborhoods in the region though, beyond the abstract ideal of walking to famous restaurants, and even if we also omit what you might call the other extreme: neighborhoods whose violent crime rates exceed those of fair-sized countries elsewhere in the world. Excluding those extremes still leaves most of the neighborhoods in the Bay Area, a broad look at which would underline eje's "almost" above. Some rapid development in late 20th century produced even relatively affluent suburbs that are dramatically pedestrian-unfriendly and whose consumer businesses consisted mainly of corporate chains planned into strip malls.* I could give eje tours of neighborhoods putting his "almost" into stark relief. Nor do I mean Sebastopol and Petaluma, both of which have particularly charming livable unpretentious old neighborhoods -- Petaluma's downtown is worth checking out if you don't know it, and Sebastopol of all places is a gem of a North Bay town that has had excellent restaurants. (Despite being a little cold and misty sometimes, not to dwell on the handicap of being pronounced "wrong."** Still, the error is not disrespectful, unlike with "vuh-LAY-yo.)

*One major city expanded, a few decades ago, almost desperately and -- my apologies to anyone who must look this up, but it's an utterly perfect metaphor, from physics -- "adiabatically" as a friend called it at the time. This town was described in the Wall Street Journal during its rapid growth as the worst-planned city in the US, a point reiterated locally in the recent election. Another town became literally a textbook negative case study in city planning (according to a co-worker whose niece studied it in college), consisting originally (if I remember) of a few uncoordinated housing and commercial developments many decades ago, whose developers sold them and departed, without provision for infrastructure such as city services, schools, etc., and which has been the butt of jokes in the region for 100 years. Both of these examples, by the way, have improved their livability considerably since those days, though adiabaticity remains visible.

** If I remember my ah-beh-veh-gheh-deh-yeh-yoh-zheh, the famous original on the Crimean peninsula is pronounced something like (in US phoneticization) syev-uh-STO-pol.