Neighborhood Places

[Nathan]

"My devil's-advocate question is: Suppose Perry St had been so fantastically successful that one could not walk in there without a reservation, and expect to be seated. Would that change your view of it?"

in context of whether it is functionally a neighborhood restaurant...absolutely it would.

LO is, without question, formally a neighborhood restaurant. However, it is not, at present, functionally a neighborhood restaurant.

We have disagreed, earlier in this thread, over whether PS is formally a neighborhood restaurant; however, as last night illustrates, it is, without question, functionally a neighborhood restaurant.

(Country, Ducasse et al are inapposite....they are much, much, much more formal restaurants than PS.)

as for the price difference between LO and PS...you would be surprised how small the difference is. PS is quite a bit cheaper than most people think (sure, the wine list is such that one could spend much more....)

[Nathan]

I should note that PS can be full at prime dinner times...for dining room tables.

it is the presence of the lounge that makes all the difference.

LO, by reasons of space, only has a 4-seat bar in comparison.

(Which leads to my one criticism of LO, they averr that they intend to attract a neighborhood crowd -- seating parties of 3 and 4 at the bar is not conducive to that purported intention.)

[docsconz]

I would posit that a determination of neighborhood vs. destination restaurant can only be made by someone from outside any given neighborhood.

[Sneakeater]

Appropos of nothing, I will note that every time I've been to Little Owl, they've accomodated me by creating a (very uncomfortable) fifth seat at the bar (off to the side, by the entrance to the kitchen).

I think it's because I look so needy when I show up at a restaurant.

[Sneakeater]

On Sunday, I ate at a new place on Smith St. in Brooklyn called Porchetta.

It somewhat reminded me of A Voce, so last night I stopped into that Madison Square establishment to have dinner at the bar, to do a comparison.

This helped clarify my thoughts a bit about this muddy topic, concerning "neighborhood" v. "destination" restaurants.

Because it has a chef people have heard of, Porchetta has gotten a lot of publicity. People outside the neighborhood definitely know about it. I could see its getting reviewed by the Times. I could see its getting a star. (If this were several months ago and Frank Bruni were still going crazy, I could almost imagine its getting two stars -- although there's no way in the world it deserves them.)

Despite all of that, however, Porchetta is a neighborhood place. It's a neighborhood place because of its limited ambitions, and because of the limitations its reasonable prices put on the food and services. If people come to Porchetta from all over New York and it becomes impossible to get a table anymore, Porchetta will be a very crowded neighborhood place that people from outside the neighborhood go to. But it'll still be a neighborhood place.

You have only to visit A Voce to see the difference. The ingredients at A Voce are much better. The sheer technical cooking at A Voce is incomprable to what is done at Porchetta. Not because Jason Neroni lacks ability, but because A Voce has much more staff and presumably much better equipment.

So A Voce is a destination. Even if people travel to Porchetta because of its very good food at very reasonable prices, it will be the prices more than the food they're travelling for (if you understand what I mean). A Times review won't change that.

This is by no means any kind of slam on Porchetta. For what it is, Porchetta is amazingly good. (Maybe not as amazing as Little Owl, but miracles like that don't come often.) I'm happy to have Porchetta within walking distance of my apartment, and I consider it a very very welcome addition to the area. There's no question I'll go back. Indeed, I don't think I can even be thought to be criticizing the place, when all I'm saying is that it succeeds about as fully as possible at being what it's clearly intended to be. But that's what it is.

Edited November 14, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[rich]

I always thought the definition of neighborhood place and destination place was:

A neighborhood place is near where I live, a destination place is near where someone else lives.

Edited November 14, 2006 by rich (log)