Lacroix is gone, is Georges next... who takes over

[bigboss]

Working under the Chef is more of a quid pro quo transaction than a bestowment of knowledge as I would typically define mentorship. You give him your patience with his caprice, you interpret his musings into practical food or people management, you tolerate his criticisms both valid and not and question his compliments because that means he wants something from you. Don't get me wrong, I learned a great deal about how to manage (use) people from him, and I suspect that this understanding of human nature is not unique to the food industry. What you get in return is not necessarily a tangible nugget of truth or a set of recipes for success. You get an environment in which you as cook or manager are able to explore and learn as much as you push yourself to do (to his credit ultimately). You can be a shoemaker (the word of the day) or the next real-deal chef; it's up to the individual to decide that for him or her self. The best success stories as Vadouvan listed are the cooks who took it upon themselves to make themselves the professionals they aspired to be in spite of the Chef. Regardless, in the eye of the public the Chef is still the one making the magic in the kitchen. Is that a book title?

[bigboss]

What up BB workin a half day?

←

Nope, just a regular day for now... and murckury came to work w/ me too.

Congrats on your new job!

Edited June 13, 2006 by bigboss (log)

[shawng]

Yes the Chef is the one making the magic in the kitchen... How ever he goes about it and many have many different techniques of people managment to get what they want and JML had a very round about way of getting the best out of someone. Its nice that Tk gives credit to Jonathan Benno and Corey Lee but ultimately you can overcome some hardships and make a name for yourself with a certain amount of determination as you mentioned bb.

[shawng]

Thanks buddy I think it will be a good thing and if not somethin else is waiting down the line so win win I guess. You'll have to come to Friends and Family if I'm allowed to invite anyone that is. Not sure how that works.

Edited June 13, 2006 by shawng (log)

[shawng]

Don't worry matt I already told your old lady you guys are comin up too.

[shawng]

As for what needs to change In Philadelphia.  I believe Philadelphia can surpass most not if not all of the restaurant cities in the country.  But it will take work and a network of support through out the restaurant community. 

Start using Local products.  Not just Branch creek.  In New York's Green Market 50% or higher are farmers from PA.  Do you know why, because there is no market, or they are pushed out by staid competition.  Two the reading terminal is great, but if it is not open later than 5 at night, how can they compete for the local crowd against Whole Foods.  It also needs to be open on Sunday's. I mean come on, a major tourist day, and it is closed.  HuH?  Support the farmers market at the Square, it is expensive for them to be there.  How do you think the organic eggs landed on Lacroix's menu 4 years ago.

The liquor laws need to be adapted to a more restaurant friendly, and cost effective venue. 

People need to venture outside the center city realm  during the day.  Fishtown, and Northern liberties are great, but it is no Soho if no one goes for lunch. 

The chefs need a stronger network.  Too few chefs are competing for the same nut, and not working together.  You should see the chef network in Atlanta it is amazing. 

I think investors need to back their chefs up more, and not compete with Stephen Starr.  Just be better than him.  He got it right he told the public what they wanted and they bought it.   

It is key to bring this evolution to a head.  It can happen.

←

Yes key, but this is alot to ask of a city that isn't very welcoming to change. It would take alot of networking and working together amongst chefs along with supporting each other. but above all what would help is if the food journalist would get involved in the future of the philly restaurant scene. They sometimes don't understand how much pull they have. They are the ones who could turn this in the right direction...

[Matthew Petersen]

I recently joined the Lacroix team a month ago as the pastry chef. I am very excited to be a part of this restaurant, but everything I am reading on this thread is making me weary.

It is true that the kitchen has gone through some turnover as of late, but the people who are there, truly care about the work they are doing (from what I can see anyway) Chef will still be a part of what goes on at the restaurant, but to what extent I do not know. It would really be a shame to see such a beautiful restaurant, with the reputation it has, to be diminished because the chef whose name is on the door is no longer there. I am optimistic of the future, but I cannot ignore the obvious facts. Only time will tell. I will still give 110% everyday no matter who is at the helm, that's just me.

Also, it really is amazing to see the loyal following that Chef Lacroix has built in this city.

[shawng]

If you work with Fred then you'll be in a good position. Fred is excellent he knows more than you could imagine.

I think the question still remains who else could build this following in philly?

[Matthew Petersen]

It's true. That was one reason I wanted to be at Lacroix, not only to work with Chef, but Fred too. Now that Chef is "gone", I feel lucky to still have someone to learn and grow with. Chef is still coming in for brunch, he was in yesterday too. So he hasn't left completely.

[shawng]

Thats good to hear. He should still have a part or a say in things it is his name and his legacy.

Edited June 14, 2006 by shawng (log)

[MarketStEl]

OK. It's been bothering me for a few days. I'm familiar with a fish knife and a fish fork in a formal dining setting, but what is a fish spoon?

It was an embellishment Holly.

Just to highlight the balance of detail and pretense....

←

None have skewered pretense better than the Doyenne of Etiquette, Miss Manners herself, in the following letter that ran in her first collection of columns, "Miss Manners' Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior":

Dear Miss Manners:

What is the proper way to eat a potato chip?

Gentle Reader:

With a knife and fork. A fruit knife and an oyster fork, to be specific. Good heavens, Miss Manners understands the need to instruct people in the finer points of dining etiquette, but anyone who doesn't have the common sense to grab a handful of potato chips and stuff them in his mouth is beyond her help.

[bigboss]

Congratulations Mr. Peterson on your new position. Don't let this thread throw you for too big of a loop. Having the opportunity to work with Fred is entirely worth any b.s. you would have to deal with from the rest of the operation. Chef usually lets pastry run with a reasonable degree of autonomy and creative freedom. Just be mindful of the fact, as I mentioned previously, that the upper management may not be committed to fine dining in the long term and that you may find yourself working for Treetops Part Deux next year. Shawn, what's up with you throwing fastballs like Roger Clemens in the playoffs? Simmer down buddy.

[shawng]

Yes true bossman... You know how I get fired up about probably nothing.

Anyway Mr. Petersen bigboss put it all alittle more eliquently as he so often does.

[Matthew Petersen]

Congratulations Mr. Peterson on your new position.  Don't let this thread throw you for too big of a loop.  Having the opportunity to work with Fred is entirely worth any b.s. you would have to deal with from the rest of the operation.  Chef usually lets pastry run with a reasonable degree of autonomy and creative freedom.  Just be mindful of the fact, as I mentioned previously, that the upper management may not be committed to fine dining in the long term and that you may find yourself working for Treetops Part Deux next year.  Shawn, what's up with you throwing fastballs like Roger Clemens in the playoffs?  Simmer down buddy.

←

Thank you very much bigboss, it is a great opportunity for me. Fred is awesome, he is a wealth of knowledge. I had made it a point to Chef and Fred that I wanted to execute my vision with support and guidance from the rest of the team. They were all in favor. I only hope that it can remain that way in a stage like Lacroix.

[Matthew Petersen]

Yes true bossman... You know how I get fired up about probably nothing.

Anyway Mr. Petersen bigboss put it all alittle more eliquently as he so often does.

←

He certainly did.

[matthewj]

Freddy likes your Work. Stick with him. Learn. You have a good team.

[MarketStEl]

Well that'll be the bee keepers son was he home schooled. And this was the guy who used to correct my english  and grammar while showing me the proper way to make bearnaise.

←

Obviously not an english major and hense why I took up cooking I would tell Matt

←

I would no more expect great writing from you all than you would expect me to turn out a three-star / four-bell dining experience. I'll do what I do well, you do what you do well, and we'll both be happy.

As for what needs to change In Philadelphia.  I believe Philadelphia can surpass most not if not all of the restaurant cities in the country.  But it will take work and a network of support through out the restaurant community. 

Start using Local products.  Not just Branch creek.  In New York's Green Market 50% or higher are farmers from PA.  Do you know why, because there is no market, or they are pushed out by staid competition.  Two the reading terminal is great, but if it is not open later than 5 at night, how can they compete for the local crowd against Whole Foods.  It also needs to be open on Sunday's. I mean come on, a major tourist day, and it is closed.  HuH?  Support the farmers market at the Square, it is expensive for them to be there.  How do you think the organic eggs landed on Lacroix's menu 4 years ago.

The liquor laws need to be adapted to a more restaurant friendly, and cost effective venue. 

People need to venture outside the center city realm  during the day.  Fishtown, and Northern liberties are great, but it is no Soho if no one goes for lunch. 

The chefs need a stronger network.  Too few chefs are competing for the same nut, and not working together.  You should see the chef network in Atlanta it is amazing. 

I think investors need to back their chefs up more, and not compete with Stephen Starr.  Just be better than him.  He got it right he told the public what they wanted and they bought it.   

It is key to bring this evolution to a head.  It can happen.

←

Yes key, but this is alot to ask of a city that isn't very welcoming to change. It would take alot of networking and working together amongst chefs along with supporting each other. but above all what would help is if the food journalist would get involved in the future of the philly restaurant scene. They sometimes don't understand how much pull they have. They are the ones who could turn this in the right direction...

←

Care to elaborate on just how our food journalists might go about doing this?

I argued in my foodblog that writeups in publications like Philadelphia magazine helped the "Restaurant Renaissance" leave a permanent legacy by educating the audience, and today's Philly restaurant scene is the descendant and beneficiary of that. Obviously you believe we can (pardon my Emerilism) "kick it up a notch" and take the entire scene to a higher plane. What should I, the reader, be learning when reading about food and dining around here? What should I, the writer, tell my readers?

[Matthew Petersen]

Freddy likes your Work. Stick with him.  Learn. You have a good team.

←

Fred likes my work? There is a great crew in that pastry kitchen, I love the chocolate lab! I wonder what might become of "Lacroix chocolate's?"

[Rich Pawlak]

Well that'll be the bee keepers son was he home schooled. And this was the guy who used to correct my english  and grammar while showing me the proper way to make bearnaise.

←

Obviously not an english major and hense why I took up cooking I would tell Matt

←

I would no more expect great writing from you all than you would expect me to turn out a three-star / four-bell dining experience. I'll do what I do well, you do what you do well, and we'll both be happy.

As for what needs to change In Philadelphia.  I believe Philadelphia can surpass most not if not all of the restaurant cities in the country.  But it will take work and a network of support through out the restaurant community. 

Start using Local products.  Not just Branch creek.  In New York's Green Market 50% or higher are farmers from PA.  Do you know why, because there is no market, or they are pushed out by staid competition.  Two the reading terminal is great, but if it is not open later than 5 at night, how can they compete for the local crowd against Whole Foods.  It also needs to be open on Sunday's. I mean come on, a major tourist day, and it is closed.  HuH?   Support the farmers market at the Square, it is expensive for them to be there.  How do you think the organic eggs landed on Lacroix's menu 4 years ago.

The liquor laws need to be adapted to a more restaurant friendly, and cost effective venue. 

People need to venture outside the center city realm  during the day.  Fishtown, and Northern liberties are great, but it is no Soho if no one goes for lunch. 

The chefs need a stronger network.  Too few chefs are competing for the same nut, and not working together.  You should see the chef network in Atlanta it is amazing. 

I think investors need to back their chefs up more, and not compete with Stephen Starr.  Just be better than him.  He got it right he told the public what they wanted and they bought it.   

It is key to bring this evolution to a head.  It can happen.

←

Yes key, but this is alot to ask of a city that isn't very welcoming to change. It would take alot of networking and working together amongst chefs along with supporting each other. but above all what would help is if the food journalist would get involved in the future of the philly restaurant scene. They sometimes don't understand how much pull they have. They are the ones who could turn this in the right direction...

←

Care to elaborate on just how our food journalists might go about doing this?

I argued in my foodblog that writeups in publications like Philadelphia magazine helped the "Restaurant Renaissance" leave a permanent legacy by educating the audience, and today's Philly restaurant scene is the descendant and beneficiary of that. Obviously you believe we can (pardon my Emerilism) "kick it up a notch" and take the entire scene to a higher plane. What should I, the reader, be learning when reading about food and dining around here? What should I, the writer, tell my readers?

←

All "food journalists" can do is REPORT; they can't advance an agenda or further a movement; if there is something worth reporting, it does get reported. The true movers and shakers in that area are Rick Nichols and Michael Klein and Craig Laban at the Inky, Maria Gallagher at Philadelphia Magazine and April Lisante at The Daily News. It's actually unfair to call them "movers and shakers", but the fact is, they are the most read writers about food in our region.

[Holly Moore]

Not sure I agree with that statement. A columnist like Rick Nichols or a reviewer like Craig Laban offers opinions - he does not merely report facts. Opinions can can ethically reflect an agenda the colunist believes in or a movement the columnist supports.

While we have very good food journalists nowadays, I believe the last "Movers and Shakers" were Jim Quinn and Elaine Tait.

Edited June 15, 2006 by Holly Moore (log)

[Vadouvan]

Actually you *are* right Holly.

It certainly explains why people flock to restaurants after great reviews.

A column like Rick's certainly makes a compelling statement as to why you should go besides merely reporting the facts.

[Rich Pawlak]

Not sure I agree with that statement.  A columnist like Rick Nichols or a reviewer like Craig Laban offers opinions - he does not merely report facts.  Opinions can can ethically reflect an agenda the colunist believes in or a movement the columnist supports.

While we have very good food journalists nowadays, I believe the last "Movers and Shakers" were Jim Quinn and Elaine Tait.

←

You may be right about that, Holly. They were giants in comparison. I guess what I meant to say, is that current "food journalists" don't seem to have ANY agenda in their writing, supportive, hortatory or otherwise.

[matthewj]

A couple of thoughts.

i like the way this thread is going.

Market, did I see that you work at Widener University? if so What school? I graduated the Hospitality School.

All the writers have an agenda, that's why they write. no?

Well I know not so many have control over this, but a food section would be nice in the inky again. I hate that it is split up into the image section, and the food section. It is just stupid.

also I think the writer need to push themselves a little more to be ahead of the food curve. It seems like the writers pick up a topic, weeks after the other cities have been through with it.

For example: Allen Richman wrote that Vetri is the best Italian restaurant in the country. That is huge. He also wrote that Philadelphia would not even know it.

That pissed me off. Because he is right.

He talked about the roasted goat he used from Bethlehem. Or the product he uses from four story hill farm, in Northern PA. Why not do an article on that instead of why I love the cheesesteak, or why Genos need to take the sign down. Who cares that is not food news worthy. Maybe a good editorial for the paper, but not food.

Write that Pa has most of the high end products that every chef in New york wants.

Like 4 story, Elysian fields lamb, Jamison Farm Lamb. And then question why if these restaurants are so great, why aren't they using these local products?

Also support of events needs to be 100%. I always hated going to SOS in Philadelphia, But when I went to other cities events they were well run, and well covered. I remember the Starchefs event at the Ritz, it was small and not covered well. I went to another cities Star chefs, and it was mobbed.

Did you all know that Fred Ortega Has some of the best chocolates in the country.

Do an Article on Fred and how he became a chocolatier, not how ma Kettle makes great fudge.

Laban needs to re-review a lot more. And it should not be some small blurb. Restuarants live a die by his reviews. Venus and Cowboy, Out of the Blue, Tree Tops, Sprigs. He needs to review the restaurant that he smashed again so that they can at least make a effort to change.

Listen.. I am not a food writer. But I am an avid food reader. I like to know about everything. But please no more articles on Hamburgers. Pizza, Matzoh Ball soup, Christmas cookies, and of course cheesteaks. We know which is the best, who makes the best and we know how to make them. If we can't, just Google it.

We need solid writing. And solid article about interesting things is my bottom line.

I think you guys can do that.

[Holly Moore]

No grease stains for you.

My theory, but the best writing is self indulgent. A writer needs passion about a subject. Hopefully many subjects. If readers share the passion, they will enjoy the writing. If not they'll turn the page or click the "X"

There can be solid, interesting writing on any manner of food, be it ordering a cheesesteak with both whiz and provolone or announcing the early crop of apples from a Bucks County orchard. The writer picks the subject, the reader decides what is of interest.

[matthewj]

True. But the questiuon was posed how can the Journalist make a diffrence or a change, or make there writing more interesting, to readers such as myself. Those are some suggestions. I do not think that all the article on the cheese steaks and such are bad. But it seems that this is what most of the writing is directed toward. The ultimate average.