Stelvin Closures

[SBonner]

I'm curious if anyone has seen any unique icons or symbols used on wine lists to indicate to a customer that the bottle has a stelvin closure. I would appreciate any feed back. Thank you in advance.

Cheers,

Stephen

Vancouver

[jayt90]

It's usually a surprise. Not always that pleasant, when they are too tight to remove easily.

Fortunately, more white wines are screw capped, and that increases the certainty of a good wine, easily handled at the table.

[KatieLoeb]

I've seen the term "cork-free" bandied about here in Philly.

Not always that pleasant, when they are too tight to remove easily.

Turn the ENTIRE foil and cap until loosened. Then just turn the bottom portion of the foil. When the seal breaks the cap is taken up about a half turn. Gently flip the now freely turning cap with your thumb until removed. Voila!

[Snowy is dead]

we seem to have less trouble with the "oh god, a screw cap!" than we did a few years back, so we have put less emphasis on what has one and what doesn't. Fewer people associate it with cheaper wine these days, though some do cry when their favorite california producer goes with the cap.

[Daniel Rogov]

In my role as wine critic, I will taste every wine that comes my way, no matter what the closure and will write about that wine in an unbiased manner. When it comes to my personal pleasure, however, I have repeated nightmares of dining at the Louis XV in Monte Carlo, of ordering a bottle of Chateau Cheval Blanc and having the sommelier approach my table ceremoniously and then with no ceremony whatever unscrewng the bottle. At that point I will, for the first and last time in my life commit homicide, that to be quickly followed by suicide.

In the name of being a bit provocative, I do exaggerate..........but believe me, only a little.

Edited March 23, 2006 by Daniel Rogov (log)

[jayt90]

In my role as wine critic, I will taste every wine that comes my way, no matter what the closure and will write about that wine in an unbiased manner.  When it comes to my personal pleasure, however, I have repeated nightmares of dining at the Louis XV in Monte Carlo, of ordering a bottle of Chateau Cheval Blanc and having the sommelier approach my table ceremoniously and then with no ceremony whatever unscrewng the bottle.  At that point I will, for the first and last time in my life commit homicide, that to be quickly followed by suicide.

In the name of being a bit provocative, I do exaggerate..........but believe me, only a little.

←

That would be a silly performance to pay for, but if the the wine was sound, as hoped for, does it matter? Does it really matter at all in that upper echelon? Most of us are buying and enjoying mid-range value wines, and if a screw cap or Stelvin avoids problems and keeps costs down, why should we quibble about ceremony?

[Daniel Rogov]

JayT.....

I am well aware of the statistics of corked wine and I well know that the world of wine, closures did not begin with and wll not end with cork. In my own life, however, and in my indeed admitedly romantic image of what wine is about, I have to agree with the French poet who said "every time I uncork a bottle I stand in awe because it is not merely a bottle of wine that I am opening. I am opening 5,000 years of human history and civilization". It has little to do with ceremony. It has a great deal to do with romance.

[jayt90]

I've seen the term "cork-free" bandied about here in Philly.

Not always that pleasant, when they are too tight to remove easily.

Turn the ENTIRE foil and cap until loosened. Then just turn the bottom portion of the foil. When the seal breaks the cap is taken up about a half turn. Gently flip the now freely turning cap with your thumb until removed. Voila!

←

OK, now I get it, Katie!

I've never had a problem with screw cap wines, and I actually look for them in $20 whites.

But I am really annoyed when I find plastic corks under the foil. They are usually very tight and hard to remove. And I haven't seen any way to predict which bottle will have one, but fortunately there are very few.

[SBonner]

I'm thinking this thread went off track I was looking for specific examples on wine lists where there was an icon or symbol to indicate to the customer that the wine was stelvin.

Cheers,

Stephen Bonner

Vancouver

Edited March 24, 2006 by SBonner (log)

[jamiemaw]

In my role as wine critic, I will taste every wine that comes my way, no matter what the closure and will write about that wine in an unbiased manner.  When it comes to my personal pleasure, however, I have repeated nightmares of dining at the Louis XV in Monte Carlo, of ordering a bottle of Chateau Cheval Blanc and having the sommelier approach my table ceremoniously and then with no ceremony whatever unscrewng the bottle.  At that point I will, for the first and last time in my life commit homicide, that to be quickly followed by suicide.

In the name of being a bit provocative, I do exaggerate..........but believe me, only a little.

←

I share your pain, Daniel. On the other hand I no longer lay the buggy whip on the carriage horses, preferring life's new twists.

At a seminar recently, I asked a group of night-time whinies (business nabobs by day) what they would think if they knew in advance that one-in-twenty decisions they made tomorrow would be dead wrong.

"A good day?" replied one.

In closing, I can only add that it's time to dispense with both the effete and wine that smells like them.

[Daniel Rogov]

Jamie, Hi....

Looking at the various uses to which the term "effete" is put, I'll agree that I would not want to be classed with those who are ineffectual, sterile or lacking in moral character. When it comes to "over-refined", however, I do have a problem, for refinement is overdone only when it becomes an obsession or is imposed on others. If defining myself as and hoping to be refined puts me in the category of being effete, well I'll accept that charge with pleasure.

The day I stop being refined, I'll go to Las Vegas where one can see copies of the Mona Lisa, of David's Michelange, of the Tour Eiffel and of the canals of Venice far more easily than one can see the real thing. Without trying to be at all presumtious, may I warmly suggest reading Umberto Eco's little essay "Travels in Hyper-Reality".

And by the way, if I had enough of both time and money, I would indeed prefer crossing the Atlantic first class on the Queen Mary II to flying any class on a Jumbo Jet. But when it comes to horses and buggies, I'm willing to admit that I prefer Lambhorghinis.

[KatieLoeb]

I was looking for specific examples on wine lists where there was an icon or symbol to indicate to the customer that the wine was stelvin

Like what? A cork with a red circle and slash through it?? That could make for some very unattractive menu icons, I'd think.

All I've ever seen is the peripheral reference to "cork-free", if anything. I don't think the world at large is ready for drawing attention to screw-caps yet. I think we're still looking for attractive semantic references.

[SBonner]

I was looking for specific examples on wine lists where there was an icon or symbol to indicate to the customer that the wine was stelvin

Like what? A cork with a red circle and slash through it?? That could make for some very unattractive menu icons, I'd think.

All I've ever seen is the peripheral reference to "cork-free", if anything. I don't think the world at large is ready for drawing attention to screw-caps yet. I think we're still looking for attractive semantic references.

←

Katie,

Good point on the menu design. In Hong Kong I saw a wine bar that had a small screw symbol on the list to indicate Stelvin. In London, a small Stelvin logo was used, just curious if there are any other ideas out there. The idea of "cork-free" to the average consumer would just create more confusion and even more discusssion by the server or sommelier (not bad thing if you are not too busy to chat at length about wine and closures). In Australia, where Stelvin is common, I do not think that drawing attention to Stelvin is an issue. Funny how in N.A. we are pre-occupied with such issues The reason for my post is for some creative input. I'm working on a large wine bar project and at least 15% of the wine list is Stelvin.

Cheers,

Stephen

Vancouver

Edited March 25, 2006 by SBonner (log)

[Rebel Rose]

Stephen, are there other symbols that have already been chosen for the list? Maybe a little context would help get the creative juices flowing . . .

[Rebel Rose]

There's also a discussion on various types of closures and our personal preferences for them here:

Looking for Closure: Screwcaps vs. Corks

[KatieLoeb]

I was looking for specific examples on wine lists where there was an icon or symbol to indicate to the customer that the wine was stelvin

Like what? A cork with a red circle and slash through it?? That could make for some very unattractive menu icons, I'd think.

All I've ever seen is the peripheral reference to "cork-free", if anything. I don't think the world at large is ready for drawing attention to screw-caps yet. I think we're still looking for attractive semantic references.

←

Katie,

Good point on the menu design. In Hong Kong I saw a wine bar that had a small screw symbol on the list to indicate Stelvin. In London, a small Stelvin logo was used, just curious if there are any other ideas out there. The idea of "cork-free" to the average consumer would just create more confusion and even more discusssion by the server or sommelier (not bad thing if you are not too busy to chat at length about wine and closures). In Australia, where Stelvin is common, I do not think that drawing attention to Stelvin is an issue. Funny how in N.A. we are pre-occupied with such issues The reason for my post is for some creative input. I'm working on a large wine bar project and at least 15% of the wine list is Stelvin.

Cheers,

Stephen

Vancouver

←

Stephen:

I didn't mean to be a smartass, I just think it could be difficult to have iconography for all of the various closures you might have. A little screw for stelvins, and I don't know what for synthetic corks, a little rocket for sparkling wines under pressure and a little regulation cork or nothing for standard issue corks. I dunno. Seems like a lot of work and cluttering up of the wine list with silly little symbols to draw attention to something you may not wish to draw attention to. :shrug: I think having well trained staff that could answer questions about the various closures should they even come up at tableside is a better expenditure of energy than finding the right little wingding for the various closures.

[dinwiddie]

Stephen,

I haven't seen any icons on the wine lists here in DC. However, I would be supprised if I did. Folks who are knowledgable about wine know all about closures and the move away from cork. Anyone who ordered a wine that had a stelvin closure and was suprised is probably ordering from the list based on price and not knowledge. However, I have had a sommelier tell me that a wine that I had inquired about had a "screwtop but don't let that bother you, it doesn't mean it isn't a great wine." It was interesting however, that a restaurant that had a sommelier felt the need to say something to me about the closure, as if I would be offended by a screwtop.

Edited March 26, 2006 by dinwiddie (log)

[Rebel Rose]

I have had a sommelier tell me that a wine that I had inquired about had a "screwtop but don't let that bother you, it doesn't mean it isn't a great wine."

He definitely needs to work on his delivery . . .

Brian Talley told us a charming story about when they switched to screwcaps, and part of their glass order from their bottle vendor were traditional bottles sent in error. With no time to correct the delivery before the scheduled bottling date, they ended up doing some of both. Somehow one restaurant received a case that was half Stelvin and half cork closures. The waitstaff used the Stelvins for by-the-glass pours, and traditional cork closures for bottle-to-table orders. Eventually they got down to 2 bottles, one Stelvin, one cork. A table ordered the Talley pinot, and the cork closure bottles was promptly displayed and served. They liked it so much they ordered a second bottle, which threw the waitstaff into a considerable dither, as they didn't want to upset the client. A brave waiter volunteered to present the bottle with a flourish, towel, etc. Naturally the table asked about the change, and the waiter blithely (or desperately) replied, "All the better to serve you quickly, sir."

[KatieLoeb]

I have had a sommelier tell me that a wine that I had inquired about had a "screwtop but don't let that bother you, it doesn't mean it isn't a great wine."

He definitely needs to work on his delivery . . .

Brian Talley told us a charming story about when they switched to screwcaps, and part of their glass order from their bottle vendor were traditional bottles sent in error. With no time to correct the delivery before the scheduled bottling date, they ended up doing some of both. Somehow one restaurant received a case that was half Stelvin and half cork closures. The waitstaff used the Stelvins for by-the-glass pours, and traditional cork closures for bottle-to-table orders. Eventually they got down to 2 bottles, one Stelvin, one cork. A table ordered the Talley pinot, and the cork closure bottles was promptly displayed and served. They liked it so much they ordered a second bottle, which threw the waitstaff into a considerable dither, as they didn't want to upset the client. A brave waiter volunteered to present the bottle with a flourish, towel, etc. Naturally the table asked about the change, and the waiter blithely (or desperately) replied, "All the better to serve you quickly, sir."

←

Great story, Mary! Actually, this is kind of what I was talking about upthread. If the staff is well trained enough to explain the closures (or bullshit extremely effectively like that guy ) it seems to be a better expenditure of energy than using little symbols. Let's face it - Stelvins and synthetic corks aren't going anywhere so we might as well get used to it and educate the staff AND the public about it as we go along. The need for little symbols will go away completely by the time folks get used to the new fangled alternatives.