Sydney invading Melbourne?

[Shinboners]

It has been reported in today's Epicure that the Crown complex is in talks with Neil Perry about opening a Rockpool restaurant in Melbourne. They are also talking to Armando Percuoco from Buon Ricordo and Guillaume Brahimi of Guillaume at Bennelong.

It'll be interesting to see if any of this comes to fruition. From the viewpoint of Crown's business, it makes some sense. Get a few well known brand names and keep the tourists happy.

But from the viewpoint of Melbourne dining, I'm really struggling to see the point. At least with Longrain, they filled a gap in the market. But would a Melbourne version of Buon Ricordo do anything that the Grossi Florentino, Cafe di Stasio, Becco, Bottega, etc. couldn't do just as well? Likewise, I really can't see how Guillaume at Bennelong doing anything that can't already be had in this town.

Rockpool is an interesting case. I've been their once and the food they served was stunning - we don't have anything like it in our town. But, I doubt they could charge the same prices in Melbourne as they do in Sydney. I figure that if anything had to give, it would be the ingredients....so if they did that, we would probably end up with Rockpool-lite (or XO south if you wish).

[PCL]

It's an open market. Competition can only be good for Melbourne. Keep the old guard on their toes and then maybe we'll see what they're really made of. Melbourne cannot simply sit on her laurels and declare theoretical superiority.

Maurice Terzini went up there and was successful. Why not see it as an exchange programme?

[The Chefs Office]

It's about time you guys got some decent food down there.

8+P

edit: XO is very very south right now, went south around christmas.

edit: Crown already has some extremely good kitchen talent, Walter Wagner/Marcus Moore are some of the best professional chefs out there. Crown runs under their direction.

Edited February 7, 2006 by The Chefs Office (log)

[PCL]

Personally, I'm looking forward to the bun fight

[Shinboners]

It's an open market. Competition can only be good for Melbourne. Keep the old guard on their toes and then maybe we'll see what they're really made of.

Speaking of competition, I'd be interested to hear the Chefs Office reading of the jobs market in Melbourne. For these fine diners, they're going to need good staff. Is there going to be enough good staff here to go around?

Melbourne cannot simply sit on her laurels and declare theoretical superiority.

I think I'll leave this one alone.

Maurice Terzini went up there and was successful. Why not see it as an exchange programme?

←

I don't have any problem with Sydney people setting up in Melbourne per se. But I do wonder if some of these places are offering anything that we can't already enjoy here. As I posted earlier, I'm very happy that Longrain has opened in Melbourne because I don't think anyone else is really doing anything like they do. I'd also be happy if a branch of Billy Kwongs opened here too.

Edited February 7, 2006 by Shinboners (log)

[PCL]

Okay, couple of things to contend with.

Sydney has shit staff but they manage. I think Melbourne will cope just fine. And it's not fine dining in my opinion, it's event dining. They want vivacious attractive people in those places, check Sydney.

And as for offering what we don't already enjoy here, it's down to variety and the open market once again no? I mean, you can't say no more new restaurants full stop because we already have so much. That would be prejudicial. So it follows that it's okay for sydney people to come down.

[The Chefs Office]

Speaking of competition, I'd be interested to hear the Chefs Office reading of the jobs market in Melbourne.  For these fine diners, they're going to need good staff.  Is there going to be enough good staff here to go around?

I primarily work at the senior end of the market but can easily comment in general.

Australia (including very much so Sydney and Melbourne) is in the grips of an diabolical kitchen talent shortage. Staff standards have dropped in a big way. To stay open many kitchens will almost hire anyone with a heart beat and the ability to hold a knife.

I know of places where Chef de Partie's are being paid Chef de Cuisine wages just to stay. These days you look at a cook the wrong way and they walk to the next restaurant. They know they won't be out of work for a day. These guys know their value and ride it for all it's worth.

Thse factors are killing standards and have real effects of bringing restaurants to their knees. With rising wages and lowering food quality, diners vote with their feet and restaurants fold.

A lot of imported talent coming into the country to help this issue.

Around 90% of the roles I work on are overseas (Europe, Asia, Middle East, Caribbean, Maldives, Seychelles, etc.).

The simple fact is that for the high end roles, Australia just isn't in the same ball park as the rest of the world.

We have some good things happening here but still are very "young" and not really that established on the global scene. I guess population, distance, economy, culture, etc. are all causes of this.

The industry training organisations are well aware of the chronic staffing issues and are working to solve them but the industry won't see results for years. To get us out of the merde now, the industry as a whole should have been paying more attention ten years ago.

I see quite a few more years of pain ahead when it comes to staffing shortages before things turn.

[Chimney]

This is great news for me.

I've dined at the Rockpool twice, at the end of 2001 and at the end of 2004.

I don't think there are enough restaurants in Melbourne, which offer modern Australian cuisine with Asian influence yet.

The only one that jumps out at the moment is probably ezard at Adelphi.

But again, I haven't tried Longgrain yet.

I would rather see Tetsuya's opening a branch down here in Melbourne, or even Yoshii.

I just love the Franco-Japanese style of Tetsuya Wakuda, and Yoshii Ryuichi's Kaizeki, and cannot get enough of those.

[PCL]

Welcome Chimney.

I don't think there are enough restaurants in Melbourne, which offer modern Australian cuisine with Asian influence yet.

The only one that jumps out at the moment is probably ezard at Adelphi.

But again, I haven't tried Longgrain yet.

←

In reply to this one, mod-oz/asian influence is sometimes referred to as Backpacker Syndrome... But in all seriousness, I think the Melbourne palate is slightly more Western European while definitely respecting the East. Those who do a mod-oz/asian thing sometimes... I don't know... just can't seem to cut it in Melbourne. Notable exceptions include Fenix. Longgrain is definitely more Asia than mod-oz.

[Phish]

Sorry to hijack this thread , but i heard that "the chef's office mentioned that

Australia (including very much so Sydney and Melbourne) is in the grips of an diabolical kitchen talent shortage. Staff standards have dropped in a big way. To stay open many kitchens will almost hire anyone with a heart beat and the ability to hold a knife.

I am thinking of doing a culinary arts course in Le Cordon Bleu Sydney. Would it be wiser to take the Cuisine stream or Patisserie?

Any replies would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[The Chefs Office]

Hi!

Are you doing this as a lead in to a career?

I guess you have to do what your passion drives you to at the end of the day..

but.... this is how I see it...

1. In Australia, pastry chefs (and kitchens) are a dieing (is that how you spell it?) breed. There are less and less pastry kitchens around as our high labour cost dictates that properties outsource much of their pastry needs. There is a big increase in the number of good pastry production houses out there as a result of the labour issue. Hotels for example, just can't afford to run a whole pastry kitchen these days. Only a few are left.

Internationally, pastry and pastry kitchens are still alive and well. There are great career opportunities out there.

So I guess it depends on what/where you want to do/go.

If you stay in Australia, the value of a good pastry cook wil go up, but the number of jobs will go down.

2. Cuisine - big demand here and overseas, whole world of opportunities. This career can take you anywhere and your passion and effort will dictate your success. It's not an easy job, it's not full of glamour (unless you get your mug on TV) but the people who like it, love it and live it. Cooking is a game that's not for everyone. I love it.

If you are undecided, before forking out any hard earned I'll let you in on a little secret. My company has just received substantial government funding to run (for the next year) free 4 week full time courses in commercial cookery that will end up with you certified at certifcate 3 level. If you are interested, I'd love to hold a spot for you.

/gossip on

I'm also talking with a certain restaurant in Bray (UK) to send the highest achiever over the year of courses to them for a stage

/gossip off

/gossip on again

Shangri La Hotel Sydney has a newly confirmed head chef (thanks to me ;+)), should be in town in around 6 weeks. Coming in from The Dorchester and should cause a good shake up on the cuisine scene here in town.

/gossip off/dinner time/

[Shalmanese]

/gossip on

I'm also talking with a certain restaurant in Bray (UK) to send the highest achiever over the year of courses to them for a stage

/gossip off

←

Uhh... that wouldn't be a certain restaurant in Bray that has a certain cache of michelin stars and a reputation for serving... inventive... food is it? If so, I am officially jealous .

[Phish]

Are you doing this as a lead in to a career?

Partly yes... I already have a bachelors degree in fashion and merchandising. I also love the art of food. I was thinking along the lines of events director or something that can combine fashion with food.

1. In Australia, pastry chefs (and kitchens) are a dieing (is that how you spell it?) breed. There are less and less pastry kitchens around as our high labour cost dictates that properties outsource much of their pastry needs. There is a big increase in the number of good pastry production houses out there as a result of the labour issue. Hotels for example, just can't afford to run a whole pastry kitchen these days. Only a few are left.

Internationally, pastry and pastry kitchens are still alive and well. There are great career opportunities out there.

So I guess it depends on what/where you want to do/go.

If you stay in Australia, the value of a good pastry cook wil go up, but the number of jobs will go down.

2. Cuisine - big demand here and overseas, whole world of opportunities. This career can take you anywhere and your passion and effort will dictate your success. It's not an easy job, it's not full of glamour (unless you get your mug on TV) but the people who like it, love it and live it. Cooking is a game that's not for everyone. I love it.

That's so true about what you mentioned above. I guess it all goes down to whether you're in it for the passion or for the job.

If you are undecided, before forking out any hard earned I'll let you in on a little secret. My company has just received substantial government funding to run (for the next year) free 4 week full time courses in commercial cookery that will end up with you certified at certifcate 3 level. If you are interested, I'd love to hold a spot for you.

Awesome! Is this in Sydney or Melbourne? 4 weeks sounds great, considering that Le Cordon Bleu takes 9 months and William Anglais takes one and a half years to achieve a Cert. 3. I'll be thrilled if you could reserve a spot for me.

/gossip on

I'm also talking with a certain restaurant in Bray (UK) to send the highest achiever over the year of courses to them for a stage

/gossip off

/gossip on again

Shangri La Hotel Sydney has a newly confirmed head chef (thanks to me ;+)), should be in town in around 6 weeks. Coming in from The Dorchester and should cause a good shake up on the cuisine scene here in town.

/gossip off/dinner time/

←

How exciting!!

Thanks again for your cogitative advice!

[foodism]

hey to phish i tink its definetely a life choice ive been lucky enough to do both there is a beautiful balance which is pastry but in a restaurant so u still get the buzz of a service and serving beautiful plated desserts without the hmmmm bore of 300 scones every day for afternoon tea although the best way to succeed is to do the scones do the basics then step into the ala carte world pasrty is very scientific recipes to a t where savoury is a bit more lick the finger to see how it tastes kinda thing , feel ur way around for a while before u commit coz when u do its a full on non stop ride of highs and lows which can take u only as far as u r willing to take/push yourself , cheffing is trully rewarding but u have to be prepared for the year or so of cakes , strusels , vanilla ice creams and croquembouches before u can understand and practice the fun of candied beetroot lolli pops , paco jets of sweet japenese pumpkin sorbet and blowing sugar like glass but the histroy ie ckaes and crouqembouches is where the heart it is u cant do the future unless u know the past and same for savoury gotta turn the bags full of potatoes , make the killos of mash , sautee and squeeze 10 boxes of spinach , blanch peel and dice boxes of tomatoes make soup after soup after soup before u start doing the oysters wrapped in jelly the cauliflower foams that dissapear in your mouth like air yet taste like heaven the slow cooked lamb neck,the sashimi of blue fin tuna , but the more u learn the more u can create and the more u understand the more u can proceed and exceed the world is ur oyster especially in this foodlovers universe good luck with ur decision i hope this helps u on your way

[Phish]

.... is where the heart it is u cant do the future unless u know the past and same for savoury gotta turn the bags full of potatoes , make the killos of mash , sautee and squeeze 10 boxes of spinach , blanch peel and dice boxes of tomatoes make soup after soup after soup  before u start  doing the oysters wrapped in jelly the cauliflower foams that dissapear in your mouth like air yet taste like heaven  the slow cooked lamb neck,the sashimi of blue fin tuna ,  but the more u learn the more u can create and the more u understand the more u can proceed and exceed the world is ur oyster especially in this foodlovers universe good luck with ur decision i hope this helps u on your way  

←

Thanks foodism! Very beautifully put... In life, all things comes in stages.

[The Chefs Office]

Awesome! Is this in Sydney or Melbourne? 4 weeks sounds great, considering that Le Cordon Bleu takes 9 months and William Anglais takes one and a half years to achieve a Cert. 3. I'll be thrilled if you could reserve a spot for me.

It's in Sydney.

Give the office a call on Monday on 93680058, ask to speak to James Hooper and let him know Judd lined you up for a spot in the course.

Any issues, drop me a note back here and I'll sort it.

Judd

[Phish]

Thanks Judd!! I'll give him a call when i manage to find some time.

I'm really grateful for what you're doing for me. Thanks heaps!

I'll keep you posted!

Cheers!

[The Chefs Office]

Always a pleasure.

Let me know if any dramas.