Avian Flu

[Matt R.]

Having recently enjoyed some Cowichan Valley chicken and duck, I wonder what will happen here on the Island with all this nuttiness? Maybe having Lilydale move out of Sooke will indeed turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

I do not understand how or why the USA would ban imports of poultry from Canada, when this avian flu is supposedly coming from wild stocks, which recently migrated right over top of their precious country, with many pit stops along the way.

Can people accept this as part of nature, and get used to it? We don't seem to have too much of a problem with malaria. How many people a year does it kill? Or is this mother nature's way of telling us all to become vegetarian.

When this happened a couple of years ago, chicken products became very hard to procure where I worked, and we ended up shipping it from Ontario. Hopefully this will not be the case again. Of course, that was at Milestone's. Where I work now, the grower delivers his product to our door personally.

-- Matt.

[jamiemaw]

Any chefs seeing a change in the local poultry supply?  Price changes?  Availability?

A.

Good question, Arne. I have to think that a 60,000 bird cull after one catches a cold has to have had some - perhaps a dramatic - impact on supply and pricing.

[kurtisk]

As an interesting side note, and something I'd not thought of, my wife (Media Relations @ Tourism Vancouver a/k/a Wendy) had to put together an Avian Flu Q & A for TVan that is currently highlighted on their website's front page ( full link @ http://www.tourismvancouver.com/visitors/faq_avian ). They get many calls and concerns about this, you could only imagine how each news story translates to lost tourism revenue for the city. This after one damn bird and nothing for the public to be in fear about. The ripple effect is quite awe-inspiring...

k.

[SBonner]

Stephen here from Hong Kong

Just saw on the local news here that poultry from B.C. is banned in HK.

Cheers,

Stephen

[nwyles]

There has been a very noticable drop in duck sales at the restaurant. So much that I think I will lay off of it for a bit until this broo-haha has passed.

Are we being reactionary ?

One bird ?

I keep hearing stuff about the different strains not being passed to humans etc.

What strain did this bird have ? Is the Food Safety people a bit quick to gas someone's flock ?

How many cows does it take to make a mad cow crisis ? One or two ? I forget.

[Memo]

What frequency of birds are tested for avian flu, ie. one in how many?

Also, any idea of what hormones and/or antibiotics BC birds get? This could, over time, lessen their resistance to strains.

Memo

[Matt R.]

Any chefs seeing a change in the local poultry supply?  Price changes?  Availability?

A.

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We have duck on our New Year's table d'hote, and I think Chef will be buying those right now, thank you very much. Someone like Lyle, with a good sized operation (for Island standards) could be cashing in big time in a few months if things get worse. He doesn't seem like the gougeing type, but I will pick his brain on this topic next time I see him.

Last time this all went down, the real crunch seemed to be chicken breasts, both restaurant and retail supply. Just like with BSE, it was the rib portion (most popular) of the cow that was expensive and hard to get. Hey, did that 'crisis' lead to the rise in popularity of cuts like flank and onglet?

Naturally, killing a couple of hundred thousand meat birds has a direct and immediate impact on price, through supply and demand. Demand may go down a little, for a short time, but supply takes a nosedive and a while to recover.

If people who purchase these birds think like I do, they are going to drive the price up artificially by buying more than they normally would right now, in order to avoid paying more later. Greedy bastards.

-- Matt.

[fud]

Are we being reactionary ?

Absolutely. And IMHO unjustly so.

What strain did this bird have ? Is the Food Safety people a bit quick to gas someone's flock ?

I overheard my ulti-teammate mentioning she had to work the past weekend to sort this stuff out and the strain was certainly an H5 strain of a very severe nature (to birds). So the reaction was based on it being a very virulent strain to birds and fear that it may be a risk.

I feel like we are overreacting but then again I also figure I'll be that guy laughing at the doomsday advocate the day before we do in fact blow up the world.

[j_edge]

A reply from someone in the know... I live on a chicken farm (100,000 chickens) and am right in the middle of the "quarantine area." The virus that these ducks have right now is a common strain that has been found in wild ducks/birds for up to 100 years. It's not a strain that will affect humans. However, the way that commercial chicken and duck farming is (animals in close quarters) the strain could quickly mutate and become a deadly one for humans...hence all the fuss.

Chicken prices will go up...I believe the save on foods in chilliwack it has already...But we also should educate our guests who frequent our restaurants, and support the local farmers. They're stuck in the middle of this, and now have to watch their income being taken away from them. They also have a "cool down" period where they cannot place birds back in their farm. When they do get the go ahead by the CFIA they're only allowed to place a certain amount in their barns (for the first little bit) as a precaution (Insurance will cover their loss...but it's not in the full amount that they would receive for thier birds, and it does'nt cover the down time).

So please, through all of this, support your local poultry farmers. Without them...we would have a hard time getting food to our guests!

[James Kendal]

Bird flu could be as bad for B.C. as SARS was for Toronto if the PR machine doesn't manage the message properly.

American media picks up these stories as a tie in with pandemic hysteria. I also find the reporting is very slow to qualify the strain of the virus and 80% of the message impacts the viewer. The fact that the strain is not the deadly one only seems like a non sequiter.

Does anyone actually think that China reports the true stats when they had sars or bird flue outbreaks?

[jamiemaw]

Recent reports indicate that - in order to delay their trip to the Thanksgiving slaughter - last week brighter US turkeys affected a cough. Several flocks even took up saying 'eh'.

[snacky_cat]

Jason's post is bang-on. All of us have probably eaten the flesh of birds contaminated with the low pathogenicity H5 strain and these culls are not to avert a human pandemic, they're to ensure that the virus doesn't get a chance to mutate from low pathogenicity to high pathogenicity.

A couple more facts to arm yourself with next time ill-informed Cousin Cletus says he won't eat that chicken dinner you just prepared:

1. There is no evidence showing that the highly pathogenic bird flu, or any bird flu for that matter, has ever been transmitted to a human through food.

2. Even if it were possible for the virus to infect humans via food, it is heat-labile, meaning heat will kill the virus. A study of avian flu in eggs revealed that standard high-temperature pasteurization protocols are sufficient to kill the virus. High heat pasteurization is done at 72C. You should already be cooking your poultry to 74C.

I agree with Jason in that we all should make a special effort to support local poultry producers at the moment - just when they started to recover from the last viral epidemic, along comes this. Buy local when it's available - it's safe, and you're helping to sustain BC's poultry industry.

It's lunchtime now, so I'm off to do my part with a chicken bruger or something

[Vancouver Lee]

A reply from someone in the know...  I live on a chicken farm (100,000 chickens) and am right in the middle of the "quarantine area."  The virus that these ducks have right now is a common strain that has been found in wild ducks/birds for up to 100 years.  It's not a strain that will affect humans.  However, the way that commercial chicken and duck farming is (animals in close quarters) the strain could quickly mutate and become a deadly one for humans...hence all the fuss. 

  Chicken prices will go up...I believe the save on foods in chilliwack it has already...But we also should educate our guests who frequent our restaurants, and support the local farmers.  They're stuck in the middle of this, and now have to watch their income being taken away from them.  They also have a "cool down" period where they cannot place birds back in their farm.  When they do get the go ahead by the CFIA they're only allowed to place a certain amount in their barns (for the first little bit) as a precaution (Insurance will cover their loss...but it's not in the full amount that they would receive for thier birds, and it does'nt cover the down time). 

  So please, through all of this, support your local poultry farmers.  Without them...we would have a hard time getting food to our guests!

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This may seem like a stupid question, but what is the best way to go about this? Obviously buying locally produced chicken is Step 1, but if your local grocery store doesn't carry it, what then?

[Mallet]

A reply from someone in the know...  I live on a chicken farm (100,000 chickens) and am right in the middle of the "quarantine area."  The virus that these ducks have right now is a common strain that has been found in wild ducks/birds for up to 100 years.  It's not a strain that will affect humans.  However, the way that commercial chicken and duck farming is (animals in close quarters) the strain could quickly mutate and become a deadly one for humans...hence all the fuss. 

  [...]

  So please, through all of this, support your local poultry farmers.  Without them...we would have a hard time getting food to our guests!

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Do you think that current commercial farming practices could be contributing to the generation of newer and more virulent pathogens? Perhaps epidemics such as these are an inevitable consequence of current production methods...

In regards to supporting local poultry farmers, I'd like to quote Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall: "Just because the gulag is only a few miles down the road, it doesn't mean the inmates are any happier (or tastier!) than those on the other side of the country".

[annanstee]

What strain did this bird have ? Is the Food Safety people a bit quick to gas someone's flock ?

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The two found in Chilliwack both had the much less dangerous, less pathogenic H 5 strain, which causes mild illness in birds. I can't believe they culled all those birds.

I think it was quite an overreaction that had much more to do with politics then pathology.

Too bad that this if effecting sales...my understanding is that it is spread to humans through contact with LIVE poultry.