Beaujolais in the U.S.

[mikeycook]

I have noticed that the biggest difference between brasseries in France and the ones that have been recreated in the U.S. is that Beaujolais plays a larger role on most of the french menus. The standard "red by the glass" is usually a Beaujolais (like a Morgon) with multiple other beaujolais usually available by the glass. In the U.S., even in brasseries, you would be lucky to find one Beaujolais by the glass and maybe a few on the wine list. Even french wines by the glass are much more commonly a Bourgogne or from the Loire than Beaujolais. Even Balthazar, perhaps the epitome of recreating the french brasserie in the U.S. serves no Beaujolais by the glass (they have one by the carafe and five by the bottle... they have 18 Loire by the bottle by contrast).

On our last trip to Paris, we ate primarily in brasseries and I tried to have a number of quality beaujolais. We had special cuvees from both Fleurie and Moulin-a-Vent and were surprised at how delicious they were and what a great compliment they were to a lot of basic foods. I am far from a wine newbie, but somehow Beaujolais (outside of the Nouveau) was not on my mental radar as something good to drink. (It has subsequently found its way only my Thanksgiving menu).

I recently noticed some bus stop advertising in New York promoting Beaujolais and was wondering if it was having any effect. In reality, very good Beaujolais are at a great price point to make them attractive in restaurants. Are eGulleteers drinking more Beaujolais these days? Do you think drinking Beaujolais Nouveau (and not liking it) has biased many wine drinking Americans (like me) against trying its better cousins?

[Brad Ballinger]

Florida Jim will probably respond with a list of Beaujolais wines he favors as long as your arm.

I'm surprised that Balthazar wouldn't offer Bojo be the glass. What reds by the glass are they pouring instead? But Beaujoalis is starting to increase in popularity among wine lovers and casual wine drinkers alike. And people are starting to see producer names other than Dubouef. The wines are terrific food wines given their acidity levels, brightness of fruit, and usually light-handed oak treatment, if any oak at all.

In this country, there is a bit of a hurdle for the wine to overcome -- educating people that there is GOOD Beaujolais wine that is nothing like Nouveau. And when that's been accomplished, we can move on to Beaujolais Blanc.

Edited to add: Mike, if you pop down to Chambers Street Wines, you'll find a wonderful Bojo selection.

Edited November 11, 2005 by Brad Ballinger (log)

[mrbigjas]

beaujolais is also starting to increase in popularity because they're going on an all-out advertising campaign, from what i've read.

i hope it works and more is available, for all the reasons brad said.

[wkl]

yes, beaujolais' reputation has been tarnished by it's nouveau version, much the same way blue nun has tarnished reislings image here in the us.

i'm not sure people got down on bojo because they didn't like nouveau, it was just not seen as a serious wine. most americans didn't know cru beaujolais even existed. so, imho, alot of people dismiss beaujolais to show they know something about wine. which is a really good way to show knowledgable wine drinkers you don't know what your talking about.

morgon, chenas,fleurie,moulin a vent, etc are wonderful with food and can age wonderfully. but lets keep the secret to ourselves.i have been enjoying squirelling away cru bojo for years at very nice prices.

[mikeycook]

Balthazar's Red by the Glass

Cabernet de Touraine Clos Roche-Blanche ‘03

Bourgogne Passetoutgrain “Les Champs de l’Abbaye” A & I Hasard ‘02

Nuits-St-Georges “Les Trois Bouquets” J Pochet ‘02

Chinon “Les Granges” B Baudry ‘04

Fronsac La Sacristie de la Vieille Cure ‘00

St-Émilion “Cuvée Balthazar” Château Franc Lartigue ‘01

Graves Château Olivier ‘96

Syrah, Vin de Pays des Collines Rhodaniennes “Sotanum” Les Vins de Vienne - Cuilleron, Gaillard & Villard ‘02

Carafes

CRU BEAUJOLAIS“Régnié” J Rochette ‘01

CÔTES-DU-RHÔNE-VILLAGESVal Bruyére ‘03

[Florida Jim]

Mike,

If I ever write a book about wine, it will be about Beaujolais. My cellar is full to bursting with better examples of it and I drink it several times a week.

Somewhere along the line I compiled the following in a effort to learn and inform (several people contributed to this):

More than you ever wanted to know about Beaujolais:

Appellations:

Beaujolais – accounting for about half the wine produced here, it comes from the Bas Beaujolais and the flatter land to the west of Belleville

Beaujolais Superieur – is essentially from the Beaujolais appellation but must have a minimum potential alcohol of 10.5% when picked (as opposed to 10% for simple Beaujolais)

Beaujolais-Villages accounts for about 25% of production and is sourced from the hills of the northern part of the Beaujolais region.

Beaujolais Crus - of which there are ten, are found in this northern part and each bears the name of the commune of its origin. From north to south (approximately) the Crus are: St.-Amour, Julienas, Chenas, Moulin-a-Vent, Fleurie, Chiroubles, Morgon, Regnie, Brouilly and Cote de Brouilly

Beaujolais Nouveau – this may carry the appellation of Beaujolais, Beaujolais Superieur or Beaujolais-Villages. It is very young and generally considered to be for immediate consumption.

Producers:

The four small producers most recognizable (mainly due to the wine press) are Marcel LaPierre, Guy Breton, Jean Foillard and Jean-Paul Thevenet. This “gang of four” regularly gets high 80 and low 90 point ratings from Parker and others.

Other producers of note are Dom. Vissoux, Louis Jadot, Jean-Paul Brun, Diochon, Paul Janin, Michael Chignard, Dominique Piron, Chat. Thixin, Dom. Dupeuble, Dom. de la Voute des Crozes, Jean Calot, Pierre et Paul Durdilly, Dom. du Granit, Alain Michaud, Devignes, Savoye, Jacky Janodet, Souchons, Georges Viornery, Laurent Martray and Jean-Paul Ruet. I have also had excellent and age-worthy Fleuries from Coudert a/k/a Clos de la Roilette.

Recent Vintages:

1999 – good vintage produced many tannic, structured cru wines

2000 – good vintage produced many cru wines which will mature before the 99’s

2001 – poor vintage with very few exceptions

2002 – excellent vintage with many cru wines carrying the structure of 99 and the fruit of 00

2003 – atypical vintage (very hot); some good wines

2004 – too early but appears to be similar to 2002

Personal comments:

Virtually all Beaujolais rouge is made from the Gamay grape. A small amount of Beaujolais blanc is made from chardonnay.

I find the Cru Beaujolais to be my favorite wines but I have had excellent Beaujolais-Villages and a few good wines from the other appellations. I find that in excellent vintages, Cru Beaujolais from very good producers can age and develop very easily for 3-5 years and, in exceptional cases, up to ten years (sometimes, more).

A bit more Beaujolais lore; the older vines have very small grapes, usually with thick-ish skins, and are still found on a rootstock called Viala which is apparently the best for gamay. Moulin-à-Vent, Côte de Brouilly, and Morgon are considered to be best for cellaring. There is a domaine called 'Souchons' in Morgon which has vines close to eighty years old, magnificent wine. Alain Michaud does an old vine cuvee (Cuvee Prestige) of Brouilly which is superb.

I also find that each of the Cru is, in the best of producer’s hands, capable of exhibiting its own terroir. This is especially true of those wines capable of aging. Here is a brief description (IMO) of the wines from the crus:

Moulin-a-Vent: The most Burg-like (Beaune-like) of the 10 crus, these often show less forward fruit, higher acidity and more tannin than any others. If you want to age a cru, this is traditionally the one to pick.

Julienas: These wines can show some real structure under loads of forward fruit - so they are among the more age-worthy (3-4 years) of the crus. I've found these to be more fleshy than Moulin. I think Julienas and Morgon run more in the blackberry crowd than the other crus.

Morgon: Dense wines (for Beaujolais), approaching the stature of Moulin-A-Vent in the best cases, while still giving the impression of being wholly Beaujolais. Can have the stuffing for some age.

Chenas: The smallest of the crus, so these wines are less often seen around here. Most of the best land is now part of Moulin-A-Vent, I think. I feel that the wines have less density than Moulin-A-Vent or Julienas, and lack the aromatic quality that Fleurie and Chiroubles. It often leaves something missing, for my tastes at least. Then again, I haven't had more than a handful of really interesting Chenas.

Fleurie: Lighter in nature, but perhaps the most aromatically and texturally complete of the crus, often with a floral element beneath the ripe fruit. I think that the "crunchy fruit" quality of Beaujolais really shows in good Fleurie. For these reasons, they are usually best young (although Coudert’s wines are notable exceptions). Very pretty wines.

Chiroubles: Similar to Fleurie, but often a bit less dense. Think elegance and lightness. Is Chiroubles the Volnay of Beaujolais?

Brouilly: I've found them to be missing something, as they don't have the size of the age-worthy crus and aren't as fun to drink young as Fleurie and Chiroubles. Still, they can show some nice prominent red fruit balance with structure and, in the hands of Alain Michaud, can age beautifully.

Regnie: The newest of the crus. It often falls in the lower part of the pack, when you think about depth and structure - maybe a bit less complete that Chirobles, but still with many of the same qualities.

St.-Amour: One of the more lighter, softer, quaffing-friendly crus. Rarely would these be "serious" wines, but for a simple quaffer around the grill, they can be quite nice.

Cote de Brouilly: I've not had many of these; I've read that they "fit" somewhere around Chenas.

Best, Jim

[mikeycook]

Jim, Excellent posting. Thanks for all of the notes. I will definitely be hunting for more special cuvees of the top crus.

[JohnL]

Funny, I seem to remember that years ago Beaujolais more "popular" here in NYC area, then fell out of fashion for awhile.

(I selected a cru Beaujolais as one of the wines served at my wedding in summer of '87).

I also used to order them in restaurants quite a bit.

I would say they fell out of fashion due mainly to two things: one, competition from a variety of other inexpensive wines that became available here and two a bit of snobbery on the part of some press and critics regarding Beaujolais Nouveau.

It was viewed as a marketing gimmick, rightly so, but instead of honestly describing the wine as well made, fruity, simple wine that could be enjoyable to drink the "snobs" denegrated it and thus, I believe, tarnished all beaujolias.

Brad is right to point you to Chambers Street Wines--I know David Lillie (owner) and he is a smart and honest retailer who is promoting and selling good wines from lesser known places and smaller producers. (they have some great Loire selections as well as a number of fine Beaujolais).

As for the "ageworthiness" --a very small handful of these wines will improve with some age, but most are best young--the gamay grape wines are so fruity and delicious, why age them? IMOP the trade off that comes with long ageing is not worth it, but some folks differ.

I believe that many do keep well for some years. I also think there is a bit of a resurgance in popularity which is good.

And some small winemakers are trying their hand with the grape and producing some nice results. Also good.

[Florida Jim]

As for the "ageworthiness" --a very small handful of these wines will improve with some age, but most are best young--the gamay grape wines are so fruity and delicious, why age them? IMOP the trade off that comes with long ageing is not worth it, but some folks differ.

John,

I am one, although I also drink them young.

Recently, I tasted some 1983's which were drinking very similar to old Morey or Chambolle. And, IMO, old Morey or Chambolle is worth the wait.

BTW, I agree with you about David and Jamie at Chambers Street; I shop there on a regular basis even though I reside several states away. And a quick look at their website (http://www.chambersstwines.com/) will give one an idea of the inventory.

Best, Jim

[CtznCane]

After all of this, I toss out a simple question. Is it this Thursday that the new Beaujolais arrive in the stores? Correct me if I wrong but isn't it (for those of us in America) the Thursday before Thanksgiving when Beaujolais are released? If so I need to make my plans. Certainly a wonderfully pleasant wine with a freshness made to be enjoyed.

[Phil Ward]

To Florida Jim,

Great descriptions and you are one of the few "who get it" re Beaujolais.

It has been maligned, abused and beaten to death. If I see one more GDB label in a retail store with no other representation, I will SCREAM.

Just my $.02

Phil

[Florida Jim]

It has been maligned, abused and beaten to death. If I see one more GDB label in a retail store with no other representation, I will SCREAM.

Just my $.02

Phil

Phil,

Let's count our blessings, amigo; that same mentality has kept prices reasonable.

Best, Jim

[Florida Jim]

After all of this, I toss out a simple question.  Is it this Thursday that the new Beaujolais arrive in the stores?  Correct me if I wrong but isn't it (for those of us in America) the Thursday before Thanksgiving when Beaujolais are released?  If so I need to make my plans.  Certainly a wonderfully pleasant wine with a freshness made to be enjoyed.

←

CCane,

Although I have no idea when the Nouveau arrives, every wine store on the planet will trumpet the moment. It will be hard to miss it.

Frankly, I like a few Nouveau, despite the vast sea of swill that comes in so labeled. A few producers make an effort to create something that, while by no means intended for the cellar, is intended to be more than just a marketing ploy.

For instance, if you happen to see the Nouveau from John-Paul Brun (Dom. Terres Dorees) it is certainly worth a try.

Best, Jim

[Busboy]

According to the sign hanging from the Eifel Tower outside the Belgian joint on my walk to work, BN arrives November 17th -- midnight tonight.

[JohnL]

As for the "ageworthiness" --a very small handful of these wines will improve with some age, but most are best young--the gamay grape wines are so fruity and delicious, why age them? IMOP the trade off that comes with long ageing is not worth it, but some folks differ.

John,

I am one, although I also drink them young.

Recently, I tasted some 1983's which were drinking very similar to old Morey or Chambolle. And, IMO, old Morey or Chambolle is worth the wait.

BTW, I agree with you about David and Jamie at Chambers Street; I shop there on a regular basis even though I reside several states away. And a quick look at their website (http://www.chambersstwines.com/) will give one an idea of the inventory.

Best, Jim

←

The subject of ageing wines would be a good one for a separate thread.

I wouldn't disagree with you in principle here--perhaps we differ in our level of enthusiasm.

My advice to anyone venturing into the Beaujolais area for the first time would be the general conventional wisdom that most of these wines are best enjoyed on the young side.

I would add that some of them can and do age very well.

(I know what you mean re: old Chambolle etc)

If one is going to buy Beaujolais for laying down--I would advise them to get professional help (not a psychiatrist) like that provided by a place like Chambers Street Wines.

As with long term ageing of any wine information like producer and vintage are critical.

Also this is an area (Beaujolais) where there is some change ongoing--for the better--and one would be wise to deal with merchants who are up to date.

There are few things worse than a bottle (let alone a cellar) of wine that is in decline.

[hwilson41]

According to the sign hanging from the Eifel Tower outside the Belgian joint on my walk to work, BN arrives November 17th -- midnight tonight.

←

A sign in Calvert Woodley (DC) last week said the same thing, so I'm assuming it's true. And thanks to Jim for listing a name or two that are worth buying.

[Florida Jim]

I wouldn't disagree with you in principle here--perhaps we differ in our level of enthusiasm.

My advice to anyone venturing into the Beaujolais area for the first time would be the general conventional wisdom that most of these wines are best enjoyed on the young side.

I would add that some of them can and do age very well.

(I know what you mean re: old Chambolle etc)

If one is going to buy Beaujolais for laying down--I would advise them to get professional help (not a psychiatrist) like that provided by a place like Chambers Street Wines.

As with long term ageing of any wine information like producer and vintage are critical.

Also this is an area (Beaujolais) where there is some change ongoing--for the better--and one would be wise to deal with merchants who are up to date.

There are few things worse than a bottle (let alone a cellar) of wine that is in decline.

What John said.

Best, Jim

[JohnL]

After all of this, I toss out a simple question.  Is it this Thursday that the new Beaujolais arrive in the stores?  Correct me if I wrong but isn't it (for those of us in America) the Thursday before Thanksgiving when Beaujolais are released?  If so I need to make my plans.  Certainly a wonderfully pleasant wine with a freshness made to be enjoyed.

←

French law requires that Beaujolais Nouveau can NOT be be released to the consumer prior to midnight of the third Wednesday in November (Thursday AM).

It can not be sold by merchants or growers after August 31st of the year following.

The release date is based upon the vinification schedule rather than our Thanksgiving holiday.

(Nouveau is currently very popular in Japan).

It is a means by which producers can get cash early on in the life cycle of a vintage.

And consumers can drink a very fresh fruity grapey wine.

The grapes for Beaujolais Nouveau are harvested for the vintage in fall so a wine from the 2005 vintage--is from grapes picked in early fall and made into wine to drink in late fall/winter.

Edited November 16, 2005 by JohnL (log)

[MaxH]

I've seen Beaujolais (real Beaujolais) go in and out of fashion in the last 30 years in the US. I still keep many of them too. It was common and popular here in California 30 years ago, in a simpler time when people still recollected that there were other countries in the world, even other winemaking countries, even other winemaking countries whose products were sold in California; and would start their serious wine learning by looking to tried and true exemplars rather than what was hip this week, or what happened to be made in the next county. (Imagine the corresponding situation of a budding wine enthusiast in Hungary starting with Tokaji.)

yes, beaujolais' reputation has been tarnished by it's nouveau version, much the same way blue nun has tarnished reislings image here in the us.

In the same spirit, wkl, but surely not the same degree. (The gulf that yawns between "blue nun" ("the wine that's correct with any meal," as the smooth announcer's voice used to assure the almost non-wine-drinking US public) and the exquisite German Rieslings available for as little as $9-$10 in the US was much wider, in my experience, than the distance from classic Beaujolais to the nouveau. A light, fragile product that used to be consumed in bulk around Lyon, and very cheaply too, before the vast marketing projects started and it began appearing in the US on a pedestal, not hardly so cheap any more.

I would say they fell out of fashion due mainly to two things: ... a bit of snobbery on the part of some press and critics regarding Beaujolais Nouveau.

Well, JohnL, I've read a lot of more specific criticisms of the nouveau, to say nothing of the lack of perspective it commands in the US, with many casual wine drinkers recently getting the weird notion that it's what Beauj is all about (!?!?). Tom Stevenson in his wine encycopedia writes crisply that most of it smells of bubble gum or bananas, and is ideal for anyone who does not actually enjoy the characteristics of real wine. Some may project the idea of snobbery into this (JohnL will doubtless have more to say) but many experienced wine drinkers I know would say that the statement is also factual to the letter, like it or not. That doesn't mean they won't also drink the nouveau, it's pleasant and has its place. (Also overlooking that we'd probably like it better, in pitchers for a dollar or two, and close to the source, 'cause it's fragile stuff. It has lost its roots and with them, maybe part of its soul.)

[mikeycook]

(Also overlooking that we'd probably like it better, in pitchers for a dollar or two, and close to the source, 'cause it's fragile stuff.   It has lost its roots and with them, maybe part of its soul.)

←

What a great idea! Why even put it in bottles? In fact, instead of pitchers, wine shops should handle it like village wines are handled in some parts of France. Put a large tank in the store with a hose coming out of it and let people bring their own buckets and tubs to fill up (that much easier to drink from). At least that would allow people to tell the difference between nouveau and the others (i.e. nouveau comes by the bucket, the others come in bottles). Or maybe they could put it in a wine box to make the difference clear.

Edited November 16, 2005 by mikeycook (log)

[Florida Jim]

That doesn't mean they won't also drink the nouveau, it's pleasant and has its place.  Also overlooking that we'd probably like it better, in pitchers for a dollar or two, and close to the source, 'cause it's fragile stuff. 

Max,

I have a friend who has been a winemaker for many years and he says that many Nouveau bottlings are so rife with perservative (due its fragility) as to give drinkers a near-toxic reaction.

Whether that is accurate or not, I do not know. But I do know that there are very few Nouveau that I have much interest in, and certainly none of the more available labels.

But, it does have its place . . . say, Belleville, for example.

Best, Jim

[Mark Sommelier]

Nouveau can't be sold before the third Thursday in November. Years ago, the wine salesmen used to meet the planes at the airport to race the wine to waiting restaurateurs. These days, the wine is shipped in days ahead of time and savvy bistro owners have parties after midnight Wednesday.

The damage that has been done to the reputation of Beaujolais has the same cause as other regions in France and elsewhere in Europe: over-production, poor winemaking and disparity between the Euro and other currencies. Last year, several million bottles of Beaujolais were quietly distilled into industrial use alcohol and ethanol. This year, the government is contemplating mandating reduced production as a mean to raise quality and stimulate sales.

[MaxH]

Another thing about Beaujolais in US is that it's one of the popular old-world wine types that lacks a US counterpart, so you have to get it from France. (Rieslings of German balance and subtlety, by the way, have been another such case. Schoonmaker and Marvel's 1941 book explained why.)

I'm referring here to classic Beaujolais, ageable in good years from good producers. The Nouveau types, which lean hard on the carbonic-maceration ferment technique, seem to get much of their style from that technique (especially the short-chain fruit-ester aromas Tom Stevenson mentioned -- amyl acetate, ethyl acetate, etc.). 25 years ago California producers experimented intensely with "Nouveau" wines by using this ferment technique on other grape varieties, and these products were offered at retail. I tried them with interest. The resulting wines resembled each other, especially in aroma. I assumed they were showing the ferment technique more than the grape type.

Given that the French Gamay grape makes red Beaujolais, retailing Beaujolais in the US has been confusing to newcomers because of varietal-labeled California wines, "Gamay" and "Napa Gamay," which tended not to resemble classic Beauj though they provided decent light red wines; then there was "Gamay Beaujolais," another variety, by tradition a Pinot Noir clone in fact -- but not always (as Haeger traced, I think, in his recent Pinot Noir book, with superhuman patience). I don't know how widely these California products were distributed in the US. A certain, formerly family-owned winery in Mendocino County, known historically for organic wines, used to bottle a Gamay Beaujolais among its minor varietals and retail it very reasonably, as low as $4.28 in my records (when the sales rep was having a slow day and I ordered a few dozens). But the winery grew rapidly under new ownership, and such minor varietals got trimmed off.

One more bit of trivia: US-published general wine books with Beaujolais sections show the Nouveau variants not even mentioned in the late 1960s, mentioned in passing in early 1970s, mentioned in depth by late 70s (as "a major fad"), and well established after that.

[JohnL]

I've seen Beaujolais (real Beaujolais) go in and out of fashion in the last 30 years in the US.  I still keep many of them too.  It was common and popular here in California 30 years ago, in a simpler time when people still recollected that there were other countries in the world, even other winemaking countries, even other winemaking countries whose products were sold in California; and would start their serious wine learning by looking to tried and true exemplars rather than what was hip this week, or what happened to be made in the next county.  (Imagine the corresponding situation of a budding wine enthusiast in Hungary starting with Tokaji.)

yes, beaujolais' reputation has been tarnished by it's nouveau version, much the same way blue nun has tarnished reislings image here in the us.

In the same spirit, wkl, but surely not the same degree. (The gulf that yawns between "blue nun" ("the wine that's correct with any meal," as the smooth announcer's voice used to assure the almost non-wine-drinking US public) and the exquisite German Rieslings available for as little as $9-$10 in the US was much wider, in my experience, than the distance from classic Beaujolais to the nouveau. A light, fragile product that used to be consumed in bulk around Lyon, and very cheaply too, before the vast marketing projects started and it began appearing in the US on a pedestal, not hardly so cheap any more.

I would say they fell out of fashion due mainly to two things: ... a bit of snobbery on the part of some press and critics regarding Beaujolais Nouveau.

Well, JohnL, I've read a lot of more specific criticisms of the nouveau, to say nothing of the lack of perspective it commands in the US, with many casual wine drinkers recently getting the weird notion that it's what Beauj is all about (!?!?). Tom Stevenson in his wine encycopedia writes crisply that most of it smells of bubble gum or bananas, and is ideal for anyone who does not actually enjoy the characteristics of real wine. Some may project the idea of snobbery into this (JohnL will doubtless have more to say) but many experienced wine drinkers I know would say that the statement is also factual to the letter, like it or not. That doesn't mean they won't also drink the nouveau, it's pleasant and has its place. (Also overlooking that we'd probably like it better, in pitchers for a dollar or two, and close to the source, 'cause it's fragile stuff. It has lost its roots and with them, maybe part of its soul.)

←

Hi Max.

My quarrel is not over "facts." It is with tonality.

Tom Stevenson is not "factually" wrong in his assessment of Beaujolais Nouveau--it is his comment that it is "ideal for anyone who does not actually enjoy the characteristics of real wine."

Wait--sorry--he is "factually" wrong here afterall--BN is not real wine?

what exactly is it then? faux wine? ersatz wine?

And what are the "characteristics of real wine?"

This is wine snobbery--as practiced all too often by British wine writers these days.

Mr Stevenson can't seem to provide a fact based assessment of the wine--he can't even bring himself to call it wine--without denegrating it and those who would like it.

You, actually provide a better assessment--"It is pleasant and has its place."--I can buy that!

If even experienced wine drinkers will drink BN--why? are they prone to "slumming" on ocasion? do they try it just to see what the peasants are into?

My point is--BN according to most critics and drinkers (experienced and otherwise) has a fresh very grapey quality--yes there are often notes of tropical fruits-bananas and yes often a bubblegum quality. All Mr Stevenson needs to do is note these things.

fact is I like BN and see some merit in its existance- and I consider myself an "experienced wine drinker"--so Mr Stevenson's words put me off a bit. Also for someone who is new to wine and intent upon trying some BN, that person would be prone to be intimidated by Stevenson's words--"My God, what if I try BN and actually like it!"

Contrast Mr Stevenson's note (by the way--I am assuming that there is no additional context other than what you quote) with how Karen MacNeil handles the subject:

"...BN, a grapey young wine made immediately after the harvest in celebration. BN is great fun, but as wines go, regular Beaujolais is so much better."

She does note the banana and bubblegum notes a few sentences later and elaborates on the differences with Beaujolais in general.

If Mr stevenson wanted to trash the wine or express a negative opinion then he would best do it outright as Francois Mauss does:

BN is "not proper wine but rather a sort of lightly fermented and alcoholic fruit juice."

Even the acerbic Anthony Hanson is more fair in his writing.

(and he's as British as they come)

So the snobbery, is really tonality. If this were not so rampant--I would be nit picking here.

[MaxH]

[Entire text of my first posting quoted]

Hi John, before getting to the substance here, a sincere friendly suggestion, maybe useful to others too. It is very helpful to readers sometimes to trim any earlier text being quoted. This increases the impact of the posting, and comes partly from the general wisdom that “vigorous writing is concise” (Strunk and White), but also the firm tradition on Internet fora, ever since they became well established in the early 1980s. More on that is in classic online advisories, including the famous RFC1855 (a current link to the original), one of the most-read documents on the Internet and roughly the Net’s counterpart of Strunk and White. (It was posted on the Internet since late 1982 in predecessor versions, and from the Network Working Group since 1995.) It long predated the currently popular http/html protocols by the way, but so did Internet fora. Advice and standards of practice for forum users and administrators appear in Section 3.0, One-to-Many Communications, including this, which is widely followed. Among other things it conveys thought for the reader and for the content:

If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting, be sure you summarize the original  ... This will make sure readers understand when they start to read your response. ... But do not include the entire original!

...Tom Stevenson is not "factually" wrong in his assessment of Beaujolais Nouveau--it is his comment that it is "ideal for anyone who does not actually enjoy the characteristics of real wine." Wait--sorry--he is "factually" wrong here afterall--BN is not real wine? ... This is wine snobbery--as practiced all too often by British wine writers these days.  Mr Stevenson can't seem to provide a fact based assessment of the wine--he can't even bring himself to call it wine--without denegrating it and those who would like it.

...

Contrast Mr Stevenson's note (by the way--I am assuming that there is no additional context other than what you quote) with how Karen MacNeil handles the subject ...

First, I did Stevenson injustice by pulling his lowest-pH remark (earlier I called it crisp) out of its actual context, which wasn’t Nouveau wines specifically, though centered around them. It is from a succinct two-page summary of the Beaujolais world (including the story of the “Pisse, Vielle!” legend), in which he explains the use of full or partial macération carbonique (MC) in both Nouveau and some regular versions of Beaujolais. But he also explains the close connection of the technique to the resulting "pungent aroma of nail varnish" and the antipathy that has accumulated, including in Burgundy itself, to this style, citing Jean-Marie Guffens for the phrase “carbonic masturb*tion.” Having explained the trade word “lollipop,” early in the two-page section, from MC’s generation of flavoring chemicals used also in candies and bubble gum, he sums up the section with “Beaujolais Nouveau should be fun and used to promote a greater awareness of wine ... but readers should be aware that these “lollipop” wines are not good-quality Gamay, whereas the best Cru Beaujolais are the world’s greatest Gamay wines.” I believe this is a fact-based assessment.

Second, this information appears as a tiny part of a long wine encyclopedia (2001 edition is ISBN 0789480395), endorsed by US experts including Robert Parker, and comprehensive enough, as I’ve told people for years, that a newcomer could look up a random wine of the world, just bought, with a fair chance of finding a synopsis about it.

Finally I stand on my original comments. These cited the real, partly technical basis for criticism of Nouveau styles in the context of Beaujolais at large, in response to your posting, which mentioned none of this, but only “snobbery.” Stevenson nowhere claims that BNs are not real wines, but that the light MC styles are “ideal for anyone who does not actually enjoy the characteristics of real wine.” It’s possible to pay attention to the wording and detach questions of tone from factual content. Some wines appeal to people who are not wine drinkers or are turned off by mainstream wine. White zinfandel enjoyed repute for that, and before it, packaged wine coolers and cocktails in the US did so. I have used Beaujolais Nouveau myself to play the devil and seduce “white wine only” drinkers into the world of red wine (soon, they’re drinking Cabernet, and liking it!). That’s what I meant by factual, and it’s a dimension separate from how much people like the statement.

In none of this thread do I find warrant for offhand stereotyping of British wine writers (coming after “Mr Stevenson can't seem to provide a fact based assessment”). I didn’t mean to feed that, or any other, nationalistic prejudice.