Del Posto

[Daniel]

Something just came up and I am unable to go to dinner this evening.. I have a 9 o'clock reservation. Judging from Tupac's last post I dont think its too hard to go to.. Anyone want my reservation before I cancel?

[Azula10]

I'm not sure how eGulleters feel about posting letters to restaurants; it is with no small amount of hesitation that I do so in this case. After a 6 year love affair with Mario restaurants, particularly Lupa and Babbo, my experience at Del Posto will likely be my last taste of his wonderful cooking. I was stunned by my experience there, stunned by the lack of response to my letter to Mario, Joe, and and Lidia, and stunned when I went back to Daniel this weekend for true 4 star service. DP is so far from 4 stars in any category (including cuisine) that in my judgement, it is laughable that they would have considered 4 stars a realistic goal. Letter follows:

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As we approached the door of Del Posto at 9:25 on Friday night, we received a disappointing phone call. The third couple of our party of six had reported feeling ill earlier that evening, but a hard to come by dinner reservation and thoughts of pleasant company caused them to hold out on canceling until the last moment.

We were sad to hear that our six was to become a four, and as experienced restaurant goers were mindful of the inconvenience that we would be imposing on our hosts. Although the door at Lupa can be hectic and the maitre d’ at Babbo is known to play favorites, we have never encountered any treatment at Lupa, Babbo, Esca, Felidia, Casa Mono, Bar Jamon, or Italian Wine Merchants that was anything less than professional. As the new flag bearer of the most important franchise of Italian restaurants in the United States, we expected to have our problem handled at Del Posto with customary grace. As things would turn out, reception and seating were to be only a small portion of our problems Friday night at Del Posto.

I personally checked in at the hostess stand for our 9:30 dinner reservation and apologized no less than five times for changing our party at literally the last moment. Living in New York City and having dined all over the world, the members in our party know something of the ballet that is restaurant seating in a busy restaurant. Although the proper course of service at a four star aspirant would be to simply seat our party at the originally planned table of six, we were more than willing to accept the delay that our actions had brought on, and started toward the bar for a bottle of prosecco. I was somewhat surprised by the handling of our situation by the two college aged women at the dais, but put my thoughts aside.

After a 20 minute process of various bartenders and runners locating and serving our aperitif, we were seated in the bar area. It was a bit strange to be asked by a waitress if we wanted a magnum of prosecco for a party of four prior to a multi course meal, and still more so when she cast over a bowl of nuts from a just departed table next to us. Four star dining to me means service that understands the rhythms and customs of fine dining and it certainly means fresh bowls of bar snacks for each party of waiting diners (setting aside the question of whether there should even be parties of waiting diners at such a restaurant).

At 10:00pm we asked the hostess how things were going with our 9:30 reservation and were very surprised that no clear answer was available. Not a lack of a timeframe, but a lack of an assurance that we would be seated promptly or at all! Recognizing Joe Bastianich from Babbo and from television, we approaching him with our plight. Joe apologized profusely and promised that we would personally see to it that we were taken care of during dinner, and that we would “make it up to us.” Although we were disappointed to be seated at 10:30 for a 9:30 reservation, the promise of an extra special experience at a meal we had been anticipating for several days went a long way in reassuring us that our night would still be special.

The contents of the menu at Del Posto, while not, “Greek to all of you,” as Bartley, our server put it, did deserve a moment of study and some consideration. We talked with Bartley for several minutes, and due to the lateness of the hour elected to focus on a middle course of pastas rather than saving the bulk of our meal for entrees that would be served well after midnight. The two amuses we were served, a single fried vegetable and an arancino, were both tasty and I chose not to focus on the fact that this was clearly nothing above and beyond the typical pre-antipasti service.

We typically share pasta dishes at Babbo and were pleased that each of the three pastas we chose was plated and served separately. We hadn’t asked for this and it seemed a nice touch and a point of differentiation from your other restaurants. We ignored the busboy’s alternating between bottled and tap water for the table, the fact that by this point (midnight) Bartley was nowhere to be found, and ultimately that our risotto was split three ways for a table of four. We were hungry, the wine was good, and the last thing that anybody wants at a three hour meal at this level of expense is to feel annoyed.

We made it through the 15 minute process of splitting the pear/apple tart for two that involved no less than five service members (and didn’t end up split four ways), and even the attempt at selecting cookies in which our requests fell on deaf ears. It wasn’t until we received our bill that we began to recognize this dining experience for the complete fiasco and total it was.

As an experienced New York diner, I can’t recall ever paying for drinks at the bar when I’ve been made to wait for an hour at a restaurant where reservations are made a month in advance. I also can’t recall ordering three dishes for the table (the pastas), and having the price doubled by having them plated separately without any mention of this by the server taking my order. If we had wanted the “tris,” wouldn’t we have ordered it? Or at the very least been given the option prior to service? Make no mistake, the pricing issue and the mistakes with water and cookies would have been unacceptable under normal circumstances at a restaurant of such supposed high quality. Given our circumstances, the fact that no special little dishes were delivered, no extra pasta course appeared, no bottle of dessert wine for the table was offered was nothing less than stunning. A visit by Joe or Lidia, an extra course or dessert, or a glass of something unique would have made us feel “taken care of.” If that wasn’t possible, at the very least our check might have been reduced. When we asked one of the few people from Del Posto still present in the empty dining room at this hour if he hadn’t been apprised of our situation, he made it clear that Mr. Bastianich had left no instructions. Perhaps a white lie would have been in order here.

Whether I would visit Del Posto for future dining would be questionable even under competent execution. I am left wondering if your principals have ever visited Jean Georges, Daniel, Per Se, etc—let alone the standard bearers for service in Europe and Asia. But this is all beside the point. The fact that nothing whatsoever was done to make up for our wait and treatment despite the explicit communication of our dissatisfaction and Mr. Bastianich’s personal and repeated promises of recompense has me reconsidering my outlook on all things Batali/Bastianich. The thought of no more bucatini at Lupa or lamb’s tongue salad at Babbo saddens me, but it saddens me less than the utter breakdown in all aspects of service in our experience last Friday at Del Posto.

[rjwong]

In the 29 March 2006 edition of the Los Angeles Times, a little "dispatch from New York" article titled Where has the love gone? by Leslie Brenner

When we sat down for an interview on a recent Friday morning at the bar at Otto, on Fifth Avenue and 8th Street, just across from Batali's apartment, the conflict with his Del Posto landlord was certainly on his mind: He had spent the previous day in court.

And how does he feel about the way things are going at the restaurant itself?

"I feel great about it," says Batali. "I always kind of zapped the naysayers. 'This is not a Mario Batali restaurant,' they said. They didn't understand that we evolve."

READ. CHEW. DISCUSS.

[dan.]

Whether I would visit Del Posto for future dining would be questionable even under competent execution.  I am left wondering if your principals have ever visited Jean Georges, Daniel, Per Se, etc—let alone the standard bearers for service in Europe and Asia.  But this is all beside the point.  The fact that nothing whatsoever was done to make up for our wait and treatment despite the explicit communication of our dissatisfaction and Mr. Bastianich’s personal and repeated promises of recompense has me reconsidering my outlook on all things Batali/Bastianich.  The thought of no more bucatini at Lupa or lamb’s tongue salad at Babbo saddens me, but it saddens me less than the utter breakdown in all aspects of service in our experience last Friday at Del Posto.

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I don't understand why you would deny yourself things that give you pleasure at some restaurants because of failed service at another given that you haven't commented on a lowering of standards at Lupa or Babbo. Would you do the same at any of Daniel Boulud's restaurants or given Bouchon Bakery's tepid reviews, would you avoid Per Se? Or are you just upset with Joe Bastianich?

[Leonard Kim]

In the 29 March 2006 edition of the Los Angeles Times, a little "dispatch from New York" article titled Where has the love gone? by Leslie Brenner

Here're what I consider the two interesting quotes to juxtapose from this article:

"If you can't stand a little jostling and maybe your table is 10 minutes late or 10 minutes early and your waitress is an artist who has a show this month and isn't going to focus on your food allergies," well, then maybe this isn't the spot for you. "I'd rather have a restaurant with attitude than just say 'let's make people happy,' " Batali says.

he still considers Del Posto a four-star restaurant. "Four star doesn't necessarily mean New York Times," he says. "It just means the room's captivating. I'm confident, although it's not that important, that by Frank Bruni's next visit, we'll have four stars."

Batali's **** definition won't jibe with most people's, I'd guess, which is perhaps why Del Posto is seemingly so far from it, no matter what his group is claiming.

[oakapple]

he still considers Del Posto a four-star restaurant. "Four star doesn't necessarily mean New York Times," he says. "It just means the room's captivating. I'm confident, although it's not that important, that by Frank Bruni's next visit, we'll have four stars."

Batali's **** definition won't jibe with most people's, I'd guess, which is perhaps why Del Posto is seemingly so far from it, no matter what his group is claiming.

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He's playing it both ways. On the one hand, he's saying, "This isn't your typical four-star restaurant." Perhaps that's a statement of fact, as well as an attempt to influence our expectations.

On the other hand, "although it's not that important," by referring to Frank Bruni, he's acknowledging that he inevitably must bow somewhat to expectations that are out of his control — that is, unless he is able somehow to alter them.

Edited March 30, 2006 by oakapple (log)

[Sneakeater]

It's hard for me to think what I think about Del Posto.

I guess the first thing I should get out of the way is that my pasta course was MUCH better than anything else I had. So that problem remains.

I found the ambiance kind of creepy. Obviously "fancy" in a stilted sort of way. Service was the same. It seemed too much like playing dress-up. It's funny, when you walk out of Del Posto, to see the entrance to Morimoto right in front of you. It's sort of like the Street Of Fantasies -- choose which one you want.

The food ranged from good to fabulous (that was the pasta). I nearly plunged over the railing (we were seated on the mezzanine) with disappointment when I was told that the bolito misto cart had been discontinued on seasonal grounds the week before our visit. There was still a bolito misto terrine on the antepasto menu, but that turned out not to be the same. This is the kind of thing at which you'd expect Mark Ladner to excel, but served chilled in aspic the various meats were all a bit dull.

The pasta was ravioli stuffed with braised beef and topped with ramps (at least SOMETHING I like was in season). This was beyond great -- probably the best pasta I've ever had in a Batali restaurant, and that's saying a lot. Not much to say about it -- it tasted like the very best possible version of what you'd expect it to taste like.

For an entree, I and one of my companions followed the waiter's strong recommendation of the Stinco de Vitello (portioned for two), i.e., braised veal shank. Looking back at Frank Bruni's review, I see he found it dull and dry. I disagree to the extent that our serving wasn't dry. Maybe I could've ordered better -- I don't want to damn the whole secondi menu on the basis of one visit -- but the difference in quality between the pasta and the entree was marked.

My dessert was fun: a tasting of three chocolates accompanied by a tasting of three rums. It was extravagant, but seemed much more interesting than the rather dull dessert menu. Interestingly, although the sommelier advised mixing the pairings up rather than slavishly following his pairings, his pairings turned out to be best. It's actually pretty easy to miss this possibility the way it's placed in the dessert booklet, so I recommend you look out for it. (I guess this is intended to be eaten as a separate course, after dessert. But even I'm not that much of a pig. And anyway, nothing on the dessert menu proper seemed that interesting.)

Del Posto is expensive and kind of a pain. I'd happily go back to try more food, but it's not the kind of place I can get very excited about.

Edited April 17, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

So let's compare Del Posto with A Voce. The food at Del Posto, on the whole, is significantly better. So why does my review of A Voce sound much more enthusiastic than my review of Del Posto? Because Del Posto is much more expensive. And because the ambiance at Del Posto (a) is such a turnoff to me and (b) so obviously requires absolutely top-quality food that it makes you much more judgmental about the food quality.

[rich]

Del Posto is expensive and kind of a pain.  I'd happily go back to try more food, but it's not the kind of place I can get very excited about.

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SE, when were you there? Was it crowded or difficult to get a reservation? Were any of the big guns in the house?

Thanks for the report.

[Sneakeater]

I was there last Friday (4/14).

It was crowded. We couldn't get a reservation on two weeks' notice; we got in by checking for cancellations that day, as the reservations clerk suggested.

I have no idea who was or wasn't in the kitchen.

Edited April 17, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

Another interesting thing to note is that my entree at Del Posto was disappointing in an entirely different way than the entrees usually are at Babbo. There, the problem is that every flavor seems to be turned up to eleven, so that the dishes are too busy and lack balance. Here, the problem was the opposite: the dish was simply dull.

It would be both an overstatement (since after all this was only one entree on a very large menu) and presumptuous to hypothesize that Batali & Co. took note of the frequent criticism that the entrees at Babbo tend to lack subtlety and then overcompensated at this, their "classy" restaurant. But I think I just did.

[Sneakeater]

It was crowded.  We couldn't get a reservation on two weeks' notice; we got in by checking for cancellations that day, as the reservations clerk suggested.

←

Now that I think of it, I misspoke. We called for the cancellation the day before.

[docsconz]

I am sorry to see that it appears that Del Posto hasn't changed appreciably since my limited visit in December. This is a restaurant I very much wanted to like, but so many of the criticisms of it I am still reading remain consistent with my own experience back then.

From Brenner's article:

"I feel great about it," says Batali. "I always kind of zapped the naysayers. 'This is not a Mario Batali restaurant,' they said. They didn't understand that we evolve."

Not all evolution is positive. Not all mutations improve survival of the species. They are subject to natural selection. It would be a shame if Batali's "evolution" were of that nature. Then again, despite all the restaurant's apparent flaws, it appears to be busy. It reminds me of something P.T. Barnum once said.

[godito]

I think the writer didn't like the restaurant so much, and it might be because of the price charged for the meals.

He recalled that as he was eating, he heard a woman at the bar screeching loudly and when he asked what happened, the waiter quipped: "I don't know, maybe she just saw the check."

Have NY restaurants really lost a sence of reality? Maybe the customers pay up regarldess of the price. Maybe, even, for some, the more they pay fopr the meal, the better it is. I mean, c'mon, 29 bucks for valet parking? Will they then expect a tip? And what's with overspending in the building of the restaurant itself?

A feud with the landlord over the lease has also kept the food gossips chattering, and the fact that Batali spent $12 million on the cavernous marble and mahogany space has left some wondering if things are getting out of hand.

Then it goes to describe a pasta dish served with truffles, oxcombs and duck testicles. Batali charges $30 for it.

"(It's) as though this were the setting for a reality show in which celebrity chefs compete to see who can charge out-of-towners the most for offal."

I know ther's other threads discussing the pricing (overpricing?) of meals in big cities and/or by celebrity chefs, but I still have to know... what do you all think?

edited to add link to full article.

Edited April 26, 2006 by godito (log)

[Nathan]

just one quick note:

a. I doubt that most of Del Posto's customers are driving.

b. $29 for 4 hours of parking is not outrageous at all by NY standards.

[rich]

just one quick note:

a.  I doubt that most of Del Posto's customers are driving.

b.  $29 for 4 hours of parking is not outrageous at all by NY standards.

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Nathan I must respectfully and strongly disagree. Whatever percentage of their customers are driving is irrelevent to the price of valet parking.

If you were parking in a garage whose business it is to park cars, then $29 is reasonable. For a restaurant to charge $29 plus tip to valet park is not only outlandish, it's price gouging. No other place in the city charges anything close to that for valet parking and most of the time it's provided as a free service and you tip the attendant.

If the Del Posto owners wanted to enter the parking business, then they should have purchased a garage or lot, obtained a license and secured the necessary insurance. I guess flitting around town on a little motorcycle, causes a perspective loss conerning the real world.

There is no justification for that price unless they wash and wax the car while you're eating. Even at Rao's, where their version of valet parking is more of a necessity, you get a wash and wax for $35 (if you choose), otherwise just give Louie a ten spot and no one goes near your car.

I've mentioned this before, but why stop there? Why not $10 to check your coat, $5 for the urinal and $10 for the full bathroom. The ladies room would need to be priced at a premium because it's all stalls - what about $15 per use? And what about a $5 scuff charge if your shoes mark the Italian (really New Jersey) marble floors.

$29 (really $35 after tip) for a restaurant valet, is obnoxious and disrespectful. If I wanted to get raped, I could get myself arrested and spend a night at Riker's, at least they use lubricants there.

Edited April 26, 2006 by rich (log)

[Vadouvan]

Then it goes to describe a pasta dish served with truffles, oxcombs and duck testicles. Batali charges $30 for it.

"Cockscombs"....That wierd thing on the rooster's head...yuck.

[tommy]

as someone who drives into the city for dinner, i'd be more than happy to have someone take my car, park it, and then return it 4 hours later for 29 dollars. i won't get to test that theory later this week, however, as i'll be going to del posto via mass transit. can't wait. yum-o.

Edited April 26, 2006 by tommy (log)

[oakapple]

If you were parking in a garage whose business it is to park cars, then $29 is reasonable. For a restaurant to charge $29 plus tip to valet park is not only outlandish, it's price gouging. No other place in the city charges anything close to that for valet parking and most of the time it's provided as a free service and you tip the attendant.

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Rich is usually very well informed, so I'd be curious to know the basis for this. I have not observed a valet parking service in action at very many Manhattan restaurants—actually, I think it's quite uncommon—so if $29 is unreasonable, to what is it being compared? If the price at Rao's is $35, and it includes a wax and wash, that's still more-or-less comparable. (On the scale Del Posto is built for, I don't think it would do if the system were to just give a tenner to Louie, and he'll watch it for you.)

Why not $10 to check your coat, $5 for the urinal and $10 for the full bathroom. The ladies room would need to be priced at a premium because it's all stalls - what about $15 per use?

Since every restaurant has bathrooms and a place for your coat, there are plenty of comparisons available that allow us to say, "This is unreasonable." Del Posto's valet parking is a service not generally offered at Manhattan restaurants. If you found a lot for yourself, you'd probably be paying around the same amount, without the benefit or convenience of valet service.

[slkinsey]

Some valet parking prices in Manhattan:

• Crowne Plaza Hotel Times Square: $39
  
• Edison Hotel: $29 for standard cars, $45 for "oversize"
  
• Holiday Inn Downtown: $30 for standard cars, $35 for SUVs and 4x4s, $40 for minivans
  

I understand that both Craftsteak and Morimoto have valet parking. Any idea on the prices?

[rich]

If you were parking in a garage whose business it is to park cars, then $29 is reasonable. For a restaurant to charge $29 plus tip to valet park is not only outlandish, it's price gouging. No other place in the city charges anything close to that for valet parking and most of the time it's provided as a free service and you tip the attendant.

←

Rich is usually very well informed, so I'd be curious to know the basis for this. I have not observed a valet parking service in action at very many Manhattan restaurants—actually, I think it's quite uncommon—so if $29 is unreasonable, to what is it being compared? If the price at Rao's is $35, and it includes a wax and wash, that's still more-or-less comparable. (On the scale Del Posto is built for, I don't think it would do if the system were to just give a tenner to Louie, and he'll watch it for you.)

Why not $10 to check your coat, $5 for the urinal and $10 for the full bathroom. The ladies room would need to be priced at a premium because it's all stalls - what about $15 per use?

Since every restaurant has bathrooms and a place for your coat, there are plenty of comparisons available that allow us to say, "This is unreasonable." Del Posto's valet parking is a service not generally offered at Manhattan restaurants. If you found a lot for yourself, you'd probably be paying around the same amount, without the benefit or convenience of valet service.

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I agree Marc, there are very few Manhattan restaurants that have valet parking. A number offer discounts at various parking garages. But no one (that I have ever seen) who does have a valet service (and most who do are in lower Manhattan) charges anything.

There are valet parking services that charge the restaurant an amount for the "franchise" and they provide the "parkers" and cover the insurance. How they split tips is unknown.

Yes, I agree (and said so in the post), if I wanted to go to a garage I would do so, but for a restaurant of that calibre to charge for a valet is unreasonable. Either provide it as a service or don't offer it at all. To charge a customer for valet parking who is already dropping a substantial amount of money in your establishment is at best petty and at worst greedy (and I cleaned that up).

[rich]

Some valet parking prices in Manhattan:

• Crowne Plaza Hotel Times Square: $39
  
• Edison Hotel: $29 for standard cars, $45 for "oversize"
  
• Holiday Inn Downtown: $30 for standard cars, $35 for SUVs and 4x4s, $40 for minivans
  

  I understand that both Craftsteak and Morimoto have valet parking.  Any idea on the prices?

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Those are hotels that have built or lease garage space - it's part of their business.

I don't know what either restaurant charges for valet parking, but if they and others take their lead from Del Posto, it could turn into a new income source for restaurants. From some of the reviews, maybe they would be better at parking cars than cooking dinner. It could become their full-time business.

As an aside, if the $29 was common or acceptable, then why have the majority of critics mentioned it in their review?

Edited April 26, 2006 by rich (log)

[tommy]

As an aside, if the $29 was common or acceptable, then why have the majority of critics mentioned it in their review?

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because they're unoriginal and not all that informed at times? it is acceptable. if you're saying it's not acceptable only because other people have, well, i can't argue with that.

given the small percentage of people that likely actually use this service, Rich is probably right in that they shouldn't charge for it. they should just prorate the cost over all diners. probably wouldn't add much to you non-drivers' bills. i'm all for that! free parking for tommy! woo-hoo!

[slkinsey]

I agree Marc, there are very few Manhattan restaurants that have valet parking. A number offer discounts at various parking garages. But no one (that I have ever seen) who does have a valet service (and most who do are in lower Manhattan) charges anything.

Out of curiosity, can you recall any examples of restaurants that offer this service in Manhattan?

As an aside, if the $29 was common or acceptable, then why have the majority of critics mentioned it in their review?

My guess? Because it seems very expensive on its face before other Manhttan valet or regular parking prices are taken into consideration, most critics are highly focused on the high prices at Del Posto and they're following the pack like lemmings (just like almost all the early ADNY reviews tended to make much of the "pen selection" bit).

[rich]

they should just prorate the cost over all diners.  probably wouldn't add much to you non-drivers' bills.  i'm all for that!  free parking for tommy!  woo-hoo!

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I agree Tommy. It should be just another entry under the cost of doing business. As a driver (because I live on Staten Island), I have given many a $20+ tip to valets, but I have never seen a posted valet fee in a NYC restaurant.

In Tampa, Bern's has a $4 service charge for valet parking and says it's part of the their salary. They do the same thing with the wait staff. I have no problem with that.

But Bern's charges $4 in an area of Tampa that has no street parking at all, people must come by car (a few cab it) and they have built their own lots. I don't think the cost of living NYC is 7.25 times more then it is in Tampa. If it is, I'll drive there to pay 50 cents a gallon for gas.

I'm not even going to compare restaurant success because Del Posto can only dream of reaching a tenth of the heights that Bern's has achieved.