askara wa harramiyya

[archestratus]

Does anyone know what "askara wa harramiyya" is and how it is made. Askara wa harramiyya literally means "cops and robbers" so there's not much to go on, but I do know it is made in Lebanon, Syria, and Palestine and that it is a vegetable dish

[FoodMan]

I do not think I've ever heard of it....the only thing by that name I know is a game we used to play as kids. Sorry.

elie

[chefzadi]

I posted questions about this dish on two International language forums that have members from all over the Arab speaking world. We all know the game and in some regions it's very organized and boys play it to learn how to protect their towns, in others it's just for fun.

No one has heard of the dish so far. Someone suggested that it might be a dish that served after the boys play or it's a dish that is made for speedy delivery.

[Almass]

I came across the name and it seems to be some new localised naming of an existing dish and it is not a well known dish name save for the one who came out with it.

This dish is simply a new name for a variant of Masbahet al Darwish but without the meat.

[chefzadi]

Do you know how the name got attached to the dish?

[Almass]

I doubt whether many people know this dish as it is very localised.

The original dish with meat is composed of slices of the slim variety of aubergines cut in rondelles where the black skin is shaved out approx under 1 inch leaving the round cut piece with alternate black and white stripes. The courgette get the same treatment and they are green and white. The dish is assembled with one slice of aubergine standing on it's side next to one slice of courgette and one slice of kofta and placed in a round metal pan (saniyah) and then you move to the next inner circle and so on.

You add tomatoe sauce and it goes in the oven. Some lightly fry the aubergines, corgettes and sauteed the kofta.

The black aubergines have conotations of cops with the black and white stripes and the courgettes of robbers (for no reason but the convinience of the author) and therefore they are following each other like Assaker wa Haramiyah or in other words cops and robbers going after the meat.

But again, I must insist that the real name is Masbahet el Darwish and someone came up with the new name which is not well known maybe to adopt it as a new dish and introduce it as their own??!?!?! or for some other unknown reason.

Edited July 16, 2005 by Almass (log)

[chefzadi]

A variation of that dish is found in North Africa as well. Given that the ingredients and techniques are so common, I suspect it's found in alot of areas.

askara wa harramiyya sounds like a local slang name for the dish.

Thanks for the info Almass.

[chefzadi]

I found this recipe on a Lebanese forum.

On that forum it's spelled Masbahet ed Darweesh

[Almass]

I found this recipe on a Lebanese forum.

On that forum it's spelled Masbahet ed Darweesh

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As usual, people publish recipes on their website or in print without having the faintest idea of how the dish should taste like or its ingredients.

In this case the recipe that is provided on the Lebanese website is simply laughable. It is not even a variant.

Clearly from the name of the dish Masbahet which is Rosary, there is a reason to call it thus and the reason is the "rangement" lining of the dish which led kids to call it cops and robbers. Also note that this dish is not Lebanese but Syrian in origin and I do not even accept that the recipe on the Lebanese site is a variant because they stray too far from the original recipe which uses lamb and not beef to start with.

To further discredit this web site, I had a look at typical Lebanese dishes:

- Batata Har-rah (Spicy Potatoes) They have Ketchup as one of the ingredient?!??!?! for crying out loud....Ketchup in this famous dish?

- Dawoud Basha. Oooops they forgot to add the Pine Kernels

- Baked Kibbeh. With Parsley and Mint. Oh sacrilege

- Halewit El Jibin. With Mozarella....terrible

I think you understand what I am driving at. I don't mind people posting or publishing variations of a dish as long as they indicate that it is a variation of the dish.

Someone might ask what constitute and establishes that a particular recipe is the original and authentic recipe? Very simply it is a recipe where a selection of at least three "culinary aware" people who could be Chefs, cooks, housewives or bon viveur originating from the area where the dish was born, to concur on the same recipe.

ANd not a mishmash of Lebanese students who do not even live in the country and try to post erroneous recipes with total disregard to the consequences and to the protection of the culinary heritage of the nation.

You know, what I would like to have would be a Repository of recipes where the authentic and variants are posted and corrected and updated continuously. This can be broken down by country or area and even the variants can be across countries like you have mentioned that you know of a similar Maghrebi dish.

Oh well, God save us from the self appointed food experts and we will save ourselves from the would be Chefs.

[chefzadi]

You know, what I would like to have would be a Repository of recipes where the authentic and variants are posted and corrected and updated continuously.

Fantastic idea Almass, you should do something like that.

[chefzadi]

I came across the name and it seems to be some new localised naming of an existing dish and it is not a well known dish name save for the one who came out with it.

This dish is simply a new name for a variant of Masbahet al Darwish but without the meat.

←

Where did you come across the name? Which location?

[Almass]

I came across the name and it seems to be some new localised naming of an existing dish and it is not a well known dish name save for the one who came out with it.

This dish is simply a new name for a variant of Masbahet al Darwish but without the meat.

←

Where did you come across the name? Which location?

←

I am scratching my brains to try to remember where I came across the "cops/robbers" name and I think it was in the blurb about the dish before they went on to give the recipe. Now whether this was a cooking book or on the web, I am not able to remember except that I made a mental note about the fact that the name was changed to either be more attractive to someone kids or because the name sounded so cheesy and unconvincing?

It is a fact that new names are cropping up and sometimes these names are a substitute for ignorance of the original name of the dish or the name of a new created dish on a very local level and which makes it diffcult to acknowledge unless you know who came out with it.

Why do you need to know as to where I came across the name of the dish?

[Almass]

You know, what I would like to have would be a Repository of recipes where the authentic and variants are posted and corrected and updated continuously.

Fantastic idea Almass, you should do something like that.

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Yes, I assume it would be a good idea.

Would you be interested?

[archestratus]

Well thank you for this discussion. I first came across the name from my ex-wife, a Palestinian, and for years I thought it was a well-known dish that she remembered from her childhood in Beirut. But then she said that no, she had never had it and didn't know what it was, and that she had first heard of it from an ex-boyfriend who was Lebanese. But I like the theory that it is a local name for Misbahāt al-Darwīsh (The Dervish's Rosary), without the meat.

[FoodMan]

Hummus is still hummus regardless of whether it's roasted red pepper hummus, hummus with avocado and roasted garlic, or low-fat hummus. Just because a dish contains ketchup doesn't make it any less genuine fwiw to some people.

Stanley-

I agree with your comment in general but not specifically about Hummus. ingredients and preparations can vary. This is not classic French cuisine after all and we have no reliable record of "master recipes". Hummus means chickpeas, literally. No discussion about it. If roasted red pepper, avocado, red beans, black beans...are used instead, then it is a tasty dip (red-pepper dip, avocado dip,...), but not hummus. Chickpeas are the dish, we cannot roast an eggplant and call it a chicken!

We have a couple threads about this dip anyways and we can discuss it more over there. Let's keep this one on topic.

The origin of this dish -askara wa harramiyya- might never be known, like I stated early on I have never heard of it. For all we know it might resemble anything depending on who named it, in this case Archestratus' ex-wife's ex-boyfriend's mom maybe.

Elie

[chefzadi]

I came across the name and it seems to be some new localised naming of an existing dish and it is not a well known dish name save for the one who came out with it.

This dish is simply a new name for a variant of Masbahet al Darwish but without the meat.

←

Where did you come across the name? Which location?

←

I am scratching my brains to try to remember where I came across the "cops/robbers" name and I think it was in the blurb about the dish before they went on to give the recipe. Now whether this was a cooking book or on the web, I am not able to remember except that I made a mental note about the fact that the name was changed to either be more attractive to someone kids or because the name sounded so cheesy and unconvincing?

It is a fact that new names are cropping up and sometimes these names are a substitute for ignorance of the original name of the dish or the name of a new created dish on a very local level and which makes it diffcult to acknowledge unless you know who came out with it.

Why do you need to know as to where I came across the name of the dish?

←

Just curious. Do you remember which country the cookbook or website was referring to?

[archestratus]

I asked my ex once again to jog her memory and this was her reply to me (this is new information to me):

Although I still remember the day I had asakir wa haramiyya at Ziyad's house more than 30 years ago and remember that this was a dish that took his mother several days to make, I have no memory whatsoever of what was in it. Sorry. Had I only known that you would be interested!

[chefzadi]

I asked my ex once again to jog her memory and this was her reply to me (this is new information to me):

Although I still remember the day I had asakir wa haramiyya at Ziyad's house more than 30 years ago and remember that this was a dish that took his mother several days to make, I have no memory whatsoever of what was in it.  Sorry.  Had I only known that you would be interested!

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If it took several days than it's not Misbahāt al-Darwīsh unless Ziyad's mother is a really, really, really slow cook.

Now if we can only find Ziyad or his mother.

I did learn alot about how askara wa harramiyya (the game) is played in different regions though.

[Almass]

If it took several days than it's not Misbahat al-Darwish unless Ziyad's mother is a really, really, really slow cook.

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Must be cooking on candle light.

and I would'nt trust what Ziyad told your ex anyway.

[chefzadi]

If it took several days than it's not Misbahat al-Darwish unless Ziyad's mother is a really, really, really slow cook.

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Must be cooking on candle light.

and I would'nt trust what Ziyad told your ex anyway.

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I don't have an ex (not exwife anyway) and my wife didn't date Ziyad.

[Almass]

If it took several days than it's not Misbahat al-Darwish unless Ziyad's mother is a really, really, really slow cook.

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Must be cooking on candle light.

and I would'nt trust what Ziyad told your ex anyway.

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I don't have an ex (not exwife anyway) and my wife didn't date Ziyad.

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You never know when luck strikes

[archestratus]

it's getting weired and weirder. I asked my ex if she knew how to reach her old boyfriend Ziyad. She responded, without further commentary (confirming that maybe we shouldn't trust him):

"...after he lost his license to practice I don't know what happened to him, sorry."

I laughed because I have no idea what license he had to lose. Anyway, I guess this matter is closed unless we hear from at least one other source of this dish.