1988: the Golden State's trendy-dentalism ...

[Gifted Gourmet]

Los Angeles is the most of a lot of things, but it has never been accused of being a place with many first-rate places to eat. To the rest of the nation this sprawling sector of California is food-famed for what it's perpetrated in the name of salad. And for inventing frozen forks with which to eat 'em. California, of course, invented "nouvelle cuisine"--vegetables briefly exposed to tepid water. But the Golden State's trendy-dentalism is being breached by more and more restaurants whose cuisine is super and whose kitchens are no longer food fashion boutiques. --Malcom S. Forbes (1988)

Opinions on his statement, understandably, written in 1988 ...

and today?

What do you suppose he'd say in 2005?

[MaxH]

... California, of course, invented "nouvelle cuisine"--vegetables briefly exposed to tepid water.--Malcom S. Forbes (1988)

Opinions on his statement, understandably, written in 1988 ...

and today?

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Gault and Millau, of course, invented and popularized the "Nouvelle Cuisine" some years before Forbes's statement so let us hope he knew more about LA restaurants when he wrote it than about culinary history.

I am a native of Northern California with connections to Southern and though I am not up on the current dining scene around LA, plenty of fellow Northern Californians who are up on it defer to it as being, today, one of the most serious and vibrant restaurant milieus worldwide.

It did not have the same reputation a few decades ago, when dining critics such as Boston's "Dr. Nadeau" routinely cited the traditional Dining Cities of the US and these did not include LA. (Nadeau gave them as NYC, N'Orleans, Chicago, Kansas City, and San Francisco.) That was then, this is now.

[cookingwithamy]

I'm just glad all that low-carb crap can't be pinned on us! It's a NY Atkins South Beach thang...but in regards to the Southern California culinary scene there are plenty of good places to eat and interesting trends coming from there as well. I also think the LA Times food section is excellent, and a reflection of the local appetite.

[Gifted Gourmet]

plenty of fellow Northern Californians who are up on it defer to it as being, today, one of the most serious and vibrant restaurant milieus worldwide.

It did not have the same reputation a few decades ago, when dining critics such as Boston's "Dr. Nadeau" routinely cited the traditional Dining Cities of the US and these did not include LA.  (Nadeau gave them as NYC, N'Orleans, Chicago, Kansas City, and San Francisco.)  That was then, this is now.

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Looking at the date of Forbes' statement, namely 1988, it is easy to get the "larger historical picture" of the growth of the dining industry over time ..

That is exactly why I picked out his statement and made a thread opener out of it ...

the times they are most definitely a-changin' .. as Bob Dylan so correctly noted in his music ...

[winesonoma]

What did he say about Atlanta Ga in 1988? Huh, Huh?

[Gifted Gourmet]

What did he say about Atlanta Ga in 1988? Huh, Huh?        

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I doubt that Forbes ever even got to Atlanta back in 1988 but I lived here then and I can tell you in one word: Barbecue ... It was very big then before we got the 1996 Olympics .. after that though? Tres chic and verrrry cosmopolitan ...

[winesonoma]

What did he say about Atlanta Ga in 1988? Huh, Huh?        

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I doubt that Forbes ever even got to Atlanta back in 1988 but I lived here then and I can tell you in one word: Barbecue ... It was very big then before we got the 1996 Olympics .. after that though? Tres chic and verrrry cosmopolitan ...

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I agree that you have Barbecue. Next time I want to get on a flying bus I'll visit.

Edited December 31, 2004 by winesonoma (log)

[MarketStEl]

(Southern California) did not have the same reputation a few decades ago, when dining critics such as Boston's "Dr. Nadeau" routinely cited the traditional Dining Cities of the US and these did not include LA.  (Nadeau gave them as NYC, N'Orleans, Chicago, Kansas City, and San Francisco.)  That was then, this is now.

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Who was this "Dr. Nadeau," in what Boston publication did he appear, and when?

I'm actually somewhat surprised to see my hometown on a list of "traditional dining cities of the US".

While Kansas City has always had a handful of top-flight restaurants, including at least one great steakhouse if not two or three, and more decent cafeterias and buffets than anywhere else, I recall the rap on dining out in KC growing up as being that the best meals out were in other people's homes.

Of course, all this was before barbecue was recognized as Legitimate Cuisine Worthy of Study and Criticism, for the city has also always been lousy with great 'cue places.

Hmmmm...kinda like jazz, another thing Kansas City and New Orleans have in common...it got no respect from the serious-minded for decades, then all of a sudden, it's something to be dissected in graduate seminars and performed in concert halls.

[MarketStEl]

What did he say about Atlanta Ga in 1988? Huh, Huh?        

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I doubt that Forbes ever even got to Atlanta back in 1988 but I lived here then and I can tell you in one word: Barbecue ... It was very big then before we got the 1996 Olympics .. after that though? Tres chic and verrrry cosmopolitan ...

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We Kansas Citians made that possible, well before 1996.

Specifically, you all should thank Calvin Trillin, a forever Kansas Citian even though he's lived in New York for years. He is the one person responsible for all those dignitaries tromping through Arthur Bryant's. Had he not dubbed it "The Single Best Restaurant In The World" in his book American Fried: Adventures of a Happy Eater, it would probably still be, like most Kansas City 'cue joints, a very good place to eat delicious beef and pork known mainly to the locals and those into that sort of thing.

--Sandy, who engaged in his share of "Which is better--Bryant's or Gates'?" theological arguments on slow Saturday nights at the Kansas City Star copy desk. I--a Gates acolyte--was usually in the minority; besides, since Bryant's was much closer to the Star offices than the nearest Gates outlet, when the crew decided that it was barbecue they wanted that night, the question was moot anyway--Bryant's it was.

[MaxH]

(Southern California) did not have the same reputation a few decades ago, when dining critics such as Boston's "Dr. Nadeau" routinely cited the traditional Dining Cities of the US and these did not include LA.  (Nadeau gave them as NYC, N'Orleans, Chicago, Kansas City, and San Francisco.)  That was then, this is now.

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Who was this "Dr. Nadeau," in what Boston publication did he appear, and when?

I'll answer as well as I can at the moment, but first, to put this into perspective, let me repeat something I put on a New Orleans food site some time back. To a general question there about San Francisco dining, I gave some sources and added: You can always search for the writings of the Generally Accepted Principal Food Critic (GAPFC) in that particular region. (I have found this helpful when visiting many places. Many.) For SF I believe it's still Michael Bauer of the Chronicle. (Certainly before him it was Sesser and Unterman, in the 1980s into the 90s, and before them, Seymour Whitelaw in the 1970s. They're all in my clippings files.) These people always get dumped on by the public a bit, and sometimes with reason; but if they are any good they still provide a vital service.

In that spirit, a GAPFC for Boston in the 1970s and early 1980s (possibly longer, I don't know) was a person whose real name I've forgotten, and whose book I can't find at the moment, sorry about that -- it was a while ago and I don't have as much on Boston as the SF area and some others -- but he sometimes used the nom-de-plume of "Dr. Nadeau." As he put it in one retrospective piece, "In those days there were just three dining critics writing in Boston, and I was two of them." Some of his writing was more memorable than his actual name. (A quick Google check was unhelpful, and crowded by one or more recent real Dr. Nadeaus.) One restaurant chapter in that writer's popular book on Boston restaurants (which I bought there in 1979, I think) was "Corporate concepts" (planned, sometimes mini-chains, sometimes with high standards). A phrase I thought useful and trenchant.

I'm actually somewhat surprised to see my hometown on a list of "traditional dining cities of the US".

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Yes, and other people have asked about that too (I've seen KC named by others also, not just in Boston). It may have been the steakhouses. Not long ago at a long, pleasant restaurant meal in the SF bay area, I talked about this issue with some visitors from KC who are food fanatics and travel around a bit. Their comments were similar to yours. (N.B., I gather you weren't one of them.) It was a memorable dinner, I ended up chatting with a visiting British journalist who perked up at a mention of the Ealing-Studios comedy movies, especially Passport to Pimlico (which finally came out in recording a few years ago and by now is probably even on DVD).

Cheers -- Max

[rjwong]

Los Angeles is the most of a lot of things, but it has never been accused of being a place with many first-rate places to eat. To the rest of the nation this sprawling sector of California is food-famed for what it's perpetrated in the name of salad. And for inventing frozen forks with which to eat 'em. California, of course, invented "nouvelle cuisine"--vegetables briefly exposed to tepid water. But the Golden State's trendy-dentalism is being breached by more and more restaurants whose cuisine is super and whose kitchens are no longer food fashion boutiques. --Malcom S. Forbes (1988)

Gifted Gourmet, back to your original topic re: Forbes' 1988 quote

Looking at the date of Forbes' statement, namely 1988, it is easy to get the "larger historical picture" of the growth of the dining industry over time ..

I was recalling the dining scene in LA, as well as in California. Two names stood out to me: Wolfgang Puck & Alice Waters. Alice Waters' Chez Panisse in Berkeley opened in 1971, with her commitment to serving only the highest quality products, "... in the name of salad ..." That commitment gave rise to the phrase "California cuisine."

Then there's Wolfgang Puck, first at Ma Maison back in 1975, then his famed Spago's (the original one on Sunset Blvd.) in 1982. Spago's was THE place to go among the Hollywood celebrities. Puck's creativity in his gourmet pizzas (smoked salmon on a pizza?? ), among other things, caused a culinary (and Hollywood) sensation.

It was during the 1980's that Los Angeles began to place itself on the culinary map. The 1984 Summer Olympics helped as well. I vaguely remember that various restaurants committed themselves NOT to price gouge the customers during the Olympics, to show that LA restaurants are worth coming back to after the Olympics.

From Forbes' point-of-view, his observations and response to these amazing happenings can be justified. In fact, Forbes' quote reminded me of that 1991 movie, LA Story, starring Steve Martin. There were two restaurant scenes in that film that probably best illustrates Forbes' view of the LA restaurant scene, in 1988. Mind you, I see Forbes' comments as a typical reaction of his times to certain extraordinary pioneering efforts by Alice Waters & Wolfgang Puck.

As for 2005, I wouldn't be surprised if Forbes reacted in similiar fashion to, in his mind, the latest "food-famed" novelty, as further proof of "the Golden State's trendy-dentalism."