Django, Philadelphia

[stephenc]

Hey Mr. Laban. If you're reading this...

Pasion! is not a four star (bell) restaurant.

[KatieLoeb]

Constrain, shmomstrain (?)  You keep on keepin' on, Katie!

Can you pass along any of CLB's comments?  I'd be interested to hear his side.

Andrew:

I don't feel comfortable posting verbatim what was a private e-mail exchange, however, the synopses of our various exchanges are what I already stated. It was a pleasant and respectful disagreement regarding whether or not the criteria have shifted, whether or not if the criteria have shifted then is the readership being given the appropriate notification, and whether trying to place an exact scientific and quantifiable measure on something so subjective is wise or even possible. Mr. LaBan and I both stated our opinions to each other, and as I said, are still in disagreement on certain things. But Mr. LaBan did say he was comfortable taking criticism in a forum such as this since he's dishing it out every week, and if I continue to disagree with him that's it's a good thing I have eGullet to channel that into! Most importantly though, I took away the feeling that his first encounter with eGullet left a very positive impression on him, and I'm terribly proud of that!

[platedoctor]

i agree pasion is not four stars and vetri is not either. is there really anyplace inphilly that is i mean excels in every category, if you know of one write back soon ,

[Steve Klc]

Katie--does LaBan do anything like what Tom Sietsema, the restaurant critic of the Washington Post, does: conduct a weekly hour-long chat online at WashingtonPost.com where he answers reader questions and opens himself up to all sorts of flack? Or does LaBan limit his public "accessibility," and hence any ongoing criticism or exploration of his positions? Is the archive of his reviews all there is--his only public accountability? Does he come out with a Guide or compilation periodically, where he has had to state his criteria, and how it may or may not have evolved, over time?

[mrbigjas]

They did come out with a book of his, last year I think, called Savoring Philadelphia. For some reason I got the impression it was just a collection of his reviews and so didn't bother getting it, but now looking at the cover at Amazon, I'm thinking I could have been wrong about that.

[KatieLoeb]

Katie--does LaBan do anything like what Tom Sietsema, the restaurant critic of the Washington Post, does: conduct a weekly hour-long chat online at WashingtonPost.com where he answers reader questions and opens himself up to all sorts of flack? Or does LaBan limit his public "accessibility," and hence any ongoing criticism or exploration of his positions? Is the archive of his reviews all there is--his only public accountability? Does he come out with a Guide or compilation periodically, where he has had to state his criteria, and how it may or may not have evolved, over time?

Hi Steve:

His e-mail address is printed at the bottom of each article/review he writes. One of his points to me about NOT joining in the discussion at eGullet was that he already had plenty of mail to answer on a weekly basis from his readership.

I don't know that the Inky website has actually done any Q & A's yet. I think Mr. LaBan thought his employers might not take it well if he were to do his first one with another website, since the Inquirer has its own website. Even if they aren't utilizing it as effectively as the Post. I like the idea of the weekly availability of the reviewer.

[herbacidal]

Katie--does LaBan do anything like what Tom Sietsema, the restaurant critic of the Washington Post, does: conduct a weekly hour-long chat online at WashingtonPost.com where he answers reader questions and opens himself up to all sorts of flack? Or does LaBan limit his public "accessibility," and hence any ongoing criticism or exploration of his positions?

Is the archive of his reviews all there is--his only public accountability? Does he come out with a Guide or compilation periodically, where he has had to state his criteria, and how it may or may not have evolved, over time?

Let me supplement Katie's response.

I don't believe he has ever come out with a guide explaining his criteria, viewpoints, decisions, etc.

His most recent reviews are kept up afterwards;

currently, while this past Sunday's review is not listed

on his page after clicking on "columnists", the previous 7 are.

He has a year-end summary of reviews, but that is probably somewhat standard among periodicals.

A weekly Q&A similar to Sietsema would probably be quite popular.

Perhaps we should contact Amanda Benett, the Inky's new editor, and suggest it as an option that would help enliven the Inky's standing and improve its readership.

[Steve Klc]

No need, I'm sure they've both read this thread already--and perhaps have even seen that both Sietsema and Jeanne McManus, the Washington Post Food section editor, have already sat in for eGullet Q&A's. Yes, Tom holds a weekly online chat of his own on the paper's site--and as a result he doesn't have the time to post here often, if at all--but he fielded Q&A questions anyway. His readership gains by his having that online outlet, that opportunity to interact with his readership and to dispense much more timely information than can ever be fit into a fixed length/frozen in time print review structure--or perfunctorily answered in individual e-mails.

It shouldn't come as a surprise that newspaper media--critics, writers, editors--read each other's sections voraciously. They have all the scuttlebut on each other. The LA Times scrutinizes everything the Post does, the Post scrutinizes everything the Times does, etc--if a Sam Sifton of the NY Times can read eGullet with a fine tooth comb, as he does, he's certainly reading the other print sections, those of his more direct competitors, especially since all this is now so easily accessible online. They all know each other, sit on awards panels with each other, poach from and are prodded by each other, many socialize with each other when they're in town, just like we do as chefs when we travel. I think the real issue for Laban and his local readership comes down to how old media chooses to deal with newer media opportunities: why isn't Laban and the Inquirer doing anything like what Sietsema and the Post do online? Would his readership not be better served and would all of you not be drawn to their website a whole lot more often?

You speak to this, Katie, when you write Laban's "e-mail address is printed at the bottom of each article/review he writes. One of his points to me about NOT joining in the discussion at eGullet was that he already had plenty of mail to answer on a weekly basis from his readership." How inefficient, if indeed true.

[KatieLoeb]

You speak to this, Katie, when you write Laban's "e-mail address is printed at the bottom of each article/review he writes. One of his points to me about NOT joining in the discussion at eGullet was that he already had plenty of mail to answer on a weekly basis from his readership." How inefficient, if indeed true.

Steve:

A very valid point, well stated. I'm certain Mr. LaBan will find it interesting as well. I'll drop him a line so he can see this suggestion.

[herbacidal]

It shouldn't come as a surprise that newspaper media--critics, writers, editors--read each other's sections voraciously. They have all the scuttlebut on each other.

I think the real issue for Laban and his local readership comes down to how old media chooses to deal with newer media opportunities: why isn't Laban and the Inquirer doing anything like what Sietsema and the Post do online? Would his readership not be better served and would all of you not be drawn to their website a whole lot more often?

You speak to this, Katie, when you write Laban's "e-mail address is printed at the bottom of each article/review he writes. One of his points to me about NOT joining in the discussion at eGullet was that he already had plenty of mail to answer on a weekly basis from his readership." How inefficient, if indeed true.

Oh I agree that they are likely to read up on the competition and associate with each other, etc.

I'm just wondering if one last kick/suggestion from the readership would have an effect on the newly installed editor.

But knowing about what is going on elsewhere and implementing innovative ideas as part of what you are providing the marketplace are two different things.

New ideas are a dime a dozen. Properly executing on an idea to achieve the level of success necessary for the risk return ratio to work is what is hard.

[mrbigjas]

Craig LaBan writes about the reaction to his review here.

Edited to say that it's really about BYOB's in general, not just the review.

Edited March 14, 2004 by mrbigjas (log)

[Rich Pawlak]

Craig LaBan writes about the reaction to his review here.

Edited to say that it's really about BYOB's in general, not just the review.

Well, goody, Laban responds to criticism, and gives eGullet a plug to boot!

Now I wonder if he'll address his woeful beer writing, which was the number one topic of discussion on my annual Beer Tour this past Saturday. He's apparently ruffled a few feathers, but also exposed himself as a beer neophyte in a city of serious beer geeks.

[mrbigjas]

Now I wonder if he'll address his woeful beer writing, which was the number one topic of discussion on my annual Beer Tour this past Saturday. He's apparently ruffled a few feathers, but also exposed himself as a beer neophyte in a city of serious beer geeks.

Was there a specific article or two y'all were talking about? Or was it just general Laban-bashing?

[herbacidal]

Craig LaBan writes about the reaction to his review here.

Edited to say that it's really about BYOB's in general, not just the review.

Well, goody, Laban responds to criticism, and gives eGullet a plug to boot!

Now I wonder if he'll address his woeful beer writing, which was the number one topic of discussion on my annual Beer Tour this past Saturday. He's apparently ruffled a few feathers, but also exposed himself as a beer neophyte in a city of serious beer geeks.

I wasn't aware that LaBan wrote about beer at all,

let alone writing about it to a level satisfying beer geeks.

Edited March 15, 2004 by herbacidal (log)

[KatieLoeb]

Craig LaBan writes about the reaction to his review here.

Edited to say that it's really about BYOB's in general, not just the review.

Actually, I quite enjoyed this article on BYOB's. There were a few mentioned in there I didn't know about or had slipped my mind. The restaurateur's take on it was interesting as well. I'm not so sure I necessarily think it's taking business away from licensed establishments. It's just fulfilling a different niche. Then again, I don't own Panorama or have 120 wines-by-the-glass available in my restaurant (I can dream though... ) and don't see it putting such a dent in our business. I also work at a silly busy place during 7-8 months of the year and not much except truly foul weather effects our business. Between the BYOB "trend" and Stephen Starr opening three restaurants in the next six months I'm not sure this would be a time that I'd want to be opening a restaurant in Center City Philadelphia. I think there really is a saturation point for the public where too many new restaurants all at once just become a blur and it's difficult to distinguish one from another. All interesting conjecture.

Curiously, I've had a least a few people ask me if it was me Mr. Laban was referring to when he said his e-mail box was full of folks complaining about the four bell Django review. Actually, I posted my opinion in this very forum first and Mr. Laban then contacted me via e-mail to explain his position. Why do my friends think I'm such an instigator?

Nonetheless we appreciate the plug for eGullet.

[Rich Pawlak]

I wasn't aware that LaBan wrote about beer at all,

let alone writing about it to a level satisfying beer geeks.

Yes , he has done several sidebars and articles,and all of them have been lacking in real understanding of the local beer community, but, more importantly, beer flavor and flavor profiles. All I know is that he's pissed off brewers and beer writers alike. And beer fans that were on my Beer Tour!

[stephenc]

I think you can cut Laban some slack. he's a restaurant critic, not exactly a beer gourmet. Though if he takes some of criticism and improves upon it, it would be great as well.

[herbacidal]

Check the newest Beard nominees here.

Check the discussion on them here.

Interesting that Laban was nominated against Sietsema in the Washington Post and Alison Cook in the Houston Chronicle.

[Rich Pawlak]

I think you can cut Laban some slack. he's a restaurant critic, not exactly a beer gourmet. Though if he takes some of criticism and improves upon it, it would be great as well.

There are plenty of decent beer writers in town, and this is the big city, so I expect the caliber of beer writing to be proportionate. With the wealth of knowledge in this city, Laban could do better homework, period.

[Steve Klc]

Catching up with this, I just realized I never actually answered the original post--where Django ranks. I should have--for then LaBan wouldn't have been able to so easily paint eG as "upset" by his ranking--Django ranks right where LaBan placed it--it is one of Philadelphia's most special restaurants and I agree with him assigning 4 bells, stars, whatever. I've been lucky to have dined there 3 times in the past year--stellar, personal, charming culinary experiences all--and a value to boot. I'd return to Django in a heartbeat--even given the drive up from DC--rather than eat at a Cashions or an Obelisk here in DC, two Beard award nominated chef-driven DC restaurants which aim for but do not achieve what Django provides on the plate. Neither restaurant adds what Aimee adds in the Django dining room or with that cheese plate.

It took 6 weeks for a response piece to run after we raised these issues here on eG and in "old media" time that's fairly quick--kudos to Katie et al for prompting this and to Laban for another interesting, well-written article. You may just have had a hand in sparking greater consistency and you just might see more of a willingness to recognize creative cooking at the BYOB level for what it is. If this were the NY Times their "old media" response would have been to ignore, completely. Katie--I'm also sorry to appear to disagree with your perspective on the appropriateness of Django's ranking but it is with the most sincere respect. I see that there are other nuances. But you're all lucky to have such a critic--he seems a passionate advocate of your city but is neither too boosterish nor too much of a homer. His two telling but not-very-arguable points:

1) "Philadelphia, where all the usual assumptions about what constitutes "fine dining" are being reconsidered," and

2) "BYOBs - urban yet accessible, with the personal scale that still distinguishes Philadelphia from its East Coast rivals"

In this group I've only eaten at Django, Pif and Chloe (anyone been to Next yet?) but you know what? He's right.

And yes herbacidal, good catch, the Beard journalism awards committee seems to agree.

My only regret is that Sikora (with Aimee Olexy and Django) didn't get one of the Beard Best Mid-Atlantic Best Chef nods in addition to Vetri.

[Holly Moore]

Carman, of Carman's Country Kitchen, and I did dinner at Django. She's a regular. My first time.

Of course it is their food that makes Django what it is. And the food is more than enough to rate Django spectacular. But what makes it even more special is that everyone on the staff seems to be having fun. If there is any pressure from Craig Laban's 4 Liberty Bells and the ensuing diner expectations, it is well masked. Absolutely professional, but welcoming and easy going. Got a glimpse of the kitchen. The very small kitchen. Seemed just as laid back. None of the starched formality usually encountered in three star or four bell establishments.

Informality carries over to the seating. Mere inches separate the tables. Not the place to go for private conversations. Settling in, we said hi to the couple next to us. Carman's Country Kitchen came up. Out of the blue our neighbor asked Carman, "Are you on eGullet." Small world. Turns out they’ve been just reading eGullet, so far. Maybe they’ll add their reactions to this meal here. Having eGulleteers at hand, meant I had two more sets of meals to photograph. Alas, I dared not lean over and snatch a taste off their plates as well.

Django’s menu divides into First Course, Entree Course and Desserts. No seven course tasting dinner or anything like that. But no rules limiting diners to just one item from each course. Carman and I started with three appetizers.

“Emerald Cove Oysters in the Shell, Pernod Gelée, Green Herb Sauce, Peppery Creme and Oyster Toast.” Everything on the menu is similarly crafted. Above and beyond. Exciting. And sufficiently descriptive that no further comment is needed.

“Goat Cheese Gnocchi, Braised Beef Short Ribs, Rosemary-Beef Jus, Tomato Conserve and Grated Goat Cheese”

And a wild ride of “Wild Mushroom and Noodle Carbonara, Crispy Pancetta, Sunny Side Quail Egg, and Natural Chicken Sauce”

Our neighbors started with

“Tender Shrimp Salad, Buttermilk-Tarragon Dressing, Crisphead Lettuce and Spicy Greens, Herb Croutons”

“House Smoked Sea Scallops, Layered Swiss Chard Gratin, and New England Salsify Chowder”

Because of all the pics I’m going to end here and do two more posts, entrees and desserts.

[Holly Moore]

Carman and I mustered the willpower to cut back to one entree each. Wish we hadn’t. Too many good choices. But we picked well.

“Seafood Risotto, Aromatic Lobster Stock, Squid, Tuna, Mussels, Peas, and Rich Saffron-Mussel Sauce.” Was so good I forgot to take a photo. The good news, a reason to return.

“Roasted Bison Loin, Braised Cabbage and Sausage Choucroute, Potato and Horseradish Cream Sauce.”

Our, by now, good buddies next door had

“Niman Ranch Pork Duo, Pork Ragu ‘Lasagne’ and Sausaged Loin, Natural Pork Sauce and Tender Mirepoix”

“Pan-Roasted Swordfish, Tangy Tomato Glaze, Creamy White Beans, Melted Leeks, and Rapini Coulis”

Dessert on the next post.

[Holly Moore]

The absolutely must-have on the dessert list is the cheese plate.

“Artisan Cheese Tasting Plate, Clover Honey, Pine Nuts and Toasted Croutons”

A list of the cheeses, from mild to pushily assertive

I’m still deep in my quest for the ultimate cheesecake so went for the “Goat Cheese Cake, Toasted Nut-Brown Sugar Crust and Tangy Lemon Curd”

Along side, they shared

“Vanilla Bean Creme Brulee and Cripsy Napoleon, Brandied Cherries and Cherry Sauce”

Oh yeah, one other thing. Django bakes their bread in flower pots.

Django’s menu is headed “March.” So only a few more days for these dishes. Suspect I’ll be back in April to see what the new month brings.

[mrbigjas]

OK I'm gonna say one thing right here:

To my knowledge, this menu is the first place I've seen the word "sausage" used as a verb. And I highly approve.

[herbacidal]

My only regret is that Sikora (with Aimee Olexy and Django) didn't get one of the Beard Best Mid-Atlantic Best Chef nods in addition to Vetri.

Hmm. I don't know anything about the Beard nominations.

Might there be a bias against BYOBs, in part because most of the voters may be from areas where alcohol licensing is done in a more conducive manner, thus allowing any restaurant close to being Beard-worthy to serve alcohol?

Although to me that brings up a second thought. I don't know that alcohol licensing for places that serve alcohol is that bad in PA.

I think the bad part of the system is the retail end, plus the lack of discounting for restaurants when they buy it to serve.

And that bad part of the system sours the whole system, in the eyes of many.

But perhaps this particular discussion should be amended to another thread.

Mods, can this post be posted in 2 different threads?