A Chat with Todd Kliman

[morela]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It gives me great pleasure to introduce The Washington City Paper's Food Columnist, Todd Kliman, as a new member of eGullet and the next D.C. & DelMarVa Q&A guest. As some of you know, Kliman launched his regular weekly column in The City Paper at the end of 2003, after contributing freelance pieces for more than a year (Young & Hungry).

In conjunction with his stellar column, he is also doing a weekly radio hit now. You can catch him every Friday on the The WMAL Morning News with Fred Grandy and Andy Parks at 6:38 a.m. That's WMAL-AM 630.

Prior to the debut of his weekly column, Kliman was a freelance writer and a lecturer in Howard University's English department where some of his students rated him as"the coolest teacher ever". Kliman was also the "white guy" editorial adviser to comedian Chris Rock's humor magazine, the Illtop Journal, which was designed to promote African American comedy. His weekly workshops at Howard fueled many of the ideas for Rock's (very controversial) magazine, which was unfortunately discontinued after the first two issues. Kliman has written a number of book reviews for The Washington Post, The St. Petersburg Times, and has done quite a bit of magazine/feature writing on everything from punk rock, to Harvard yuppies, to the corporate thuggery of selling Reeboks. He has interviewed Al Gore and John Barth, smoked clove cigarettes and drank beers with Martin Amis, has hung out in the Chicago Bulls locker room with a very young Michael Jordan, spent a week out west with rodeo clowns and another one in the desert at Cal Ripken's fantasy camp. And now he's working on his first novel, "Martrys: A Comedy".

So Todd, to start, tell us how on earth you got yourself into food journalism.

Thank you, too, for doing this

[DonRocks]

Welcome to eGullet, Todd, and thank you morela for doing this.

So Todd, I'm dying for a couple places in town where I can wear jeans (this leaves out Prime Rib), sally up to the bar (this leaves out Montmartre), and have a decent glass of wine (this leaves out Colorado Kitchen) and a plate of great pasta (this leaves out Bistrot du Coin) without breaking the bank (this leaves out Le Paradou), and without feeling like a fashion tragedy (this leaves out Zola). Without scooping yourself, can you share with us a couple informal favorites that we've never heard of?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,

Rocks.

[bilrus]

What are the advantages of writing about restaurants for an 'alternative' paper? Does it free you up to do more unusual reviews and / or be more critical of the places you do review?

[morela]

Todd, I promise I'm not trying to cause trouble...

I'll ask some great burger-cooking chef to chime in too.

In this month's Washingtonian, they have a burger guide. The top five burgers on their list are the following:

Harry's Tap Room

The Prime Rib

Black's Bar and Kitchen

Morton's

Billy Martin's Tavern

Have you had burgers at all of these places?

Not that I'm arguing about the burger quality at any of these places. Not at all.

But what happened to Five Guys, Palena, Colorado Kitchen, Matchbox ? Does Ray's the Steaks have a burger?

Where do you go for great burgers?

[Todd Kliman]

My apologies for the delay, everyone. I had to get past this week's deadline.

And thank you, morela, for all your energy and enthusiasm and for agreeing to conduct this chat ...

I'll start with the question that your intro ended with -- how on earth did I get into food journalism?

It would seem unlikely, wouldn't it -- given all that's in the brief bio up above. If, for some, that stamps me as an outsider, I don't mind. In fact, I think that's a plus. I’m not a former chef, or a culinary school grad, or someone with any kind of restaurant background. And I am very well aware that there are those in the industry who are dismissive of critics without a quote-unquote food background. And it’s interesting to note that, more and more these days, you’re seeing food critics who have spent their entire careers writing about food. But I actually think that’s a limitation, and that the more you can bring to your writing, the better, the richer the writing. And writing about food is, first of all, writing. Look at Jeffrey Steingarten, who was a lawyer before he wrote about food, or Frank Bruni, who covered politics. They bring a breadth, a perspective, to their work that I think enlivens the form. Writing about food looks easy; I know it looked easy to me, before I got started. I’d eaten widely, traveled widely, I could write. But how to make an experience come alive without lapsing into the tired or the familiar and without merely giving readers a consumer guide? How to convey something as particular and as evanescent as taste in a couple of paragraphs or sentences or even a single phrase? I found myself drawing, of necessity, on everything else I’d done – the book reviews, the long, leisurely essays, the even longer narrative magazine pieces with their wealth of scenes and character development. Every writer looks for that one subject, that one vehicle that will enable them to use all the parts of themselves. For me, it wasn’t politics, or the media, or even books, that allowed me to bring all that I’ve seen and heard and felt to bear on my work. I’m grateful I was given this opportunity. And a rare, rare opportunity it is. My earlier work taught me to be dogged, and I pursued this post as relentlessly – no, more relentlessly – than just about anything else in my life.

[Todd Kliman]

Ah – stump the band.

So let’s see if I’ve got this right: in town, jeans, bar, good wine, great pasta, reasonable, come as you are, and someplace that a bunch of up-to-the-second gastronomes has never heard of. Oh, and without scooping myself.

How about this? My house.

Everything checks out – I make a terrific plate of pasta, fresh and otherwise – and you can even sally up to the bar, which amounts, in this case, to a chair in front of the etagere.

[Todd Kliman]

I’m not sure I can fully appreciate the advantages, bilrus, because, aside from a little food writing for magazines, I've never done criticism for a daily paper. I do know that, thanks to my editors (shameless plug) I enjoy a great deal of freedom. I choose what I want to write about, and I’m free to pursue whatever interests me, be that voyeuristic bathrooms or the frustrations of Restaurant Week. It’s a vast, complex world out there, and it appealed to me that I would be given the keys to write whatever I wanted. Not every column is a straight-on review. Some are a kind of review-essays. Some are reported pieces. Some are reported essays. Some are reported reviews. I don’t like pigeonholing, generally speaking, but if you were looking for a term for some of my work – not all, but some -- it would probably be investigative food writing. Which basically circles back to what I was saying up top a few posts ago: that food, that restaurants, that dishes, are often, for me, the vehicle for an exploration. If anyone saw my column on Colorado Kitchen, they’ll know what I’m talking about. It has always seemed to me, as an eater -- not as a critic, necessarily, but as an eater – that to really capture the place it was imperative to go beyond the usual constrictive form of a review, the usual food writer’s vocabulary. And I wanted very much to try to capture that place, because in doing so I would be capturing something larger about this city and its assumptions. That said, I don’t think you can have a food column without also reviewing restaurants. So I try, as best I can, to strike a balance between the two. I love doing both, and love being able to switch off and (I hope) refresh the writing brain as a result. As to feeling a greater freedom to be more critical … It’s a good question. I’m not conscious of being more critical when I sit down to write, and I don’t believe in simply being critical for the sake of being different or edgy, whatever that is. Nor am I much of a fan of the sort of reflexive, knee-jerk sneering that people tend to associate with weeklies. I’d like to think that I’m writing the sort of column that I myself would like to read – a column that’s engaging, opinionated, honest, thoughtful, witty, personal, passionate. And as much as the subject matter might appeal to foodies, I’d like to think I’m roping in the sort of people who are only casually interested in food, who are interested in exploring a restaurant or a dish along with me.

[JPW]

All righty then, Todd. Good to have you here. We promise to be gentle.

Long time listener, first time caller.

1) What's your take on the DC restaurant scene's recent addiction towards pizza ovens? You can't swing a dead cicada without hitting a "nouveau" pizza joint a la Sette Osteria, Red Dog, etc.

2) Where do you tend to find your leads/ inspirations for your subject matter?

I'll take my answer off the air.

[FunJohnny]

Prof. Kliman: Do you have any favorite food writers -- not necessarily critics -- but people who love and enjoy writing about food, e.g. MFK Fischer?

[morela]

Oh, and here's Todd's column today:

"Buns and Fishes"

Ask away!

Mmm rum bun.

[morela]

Look at Jeffrey Steingarten, who was a lawyer before he wrote about food, or Frank Bruni, who covered politics. They bring a breadth, a perspective, to their work that I think enlivens the form.

...or look at some of the honchos at eGullet.

Edited July 8, 2004 by morela (log)

[DonRocks]

So let’s see if I’ve got this right: in town, jeans, bar, good wine, great pasta, reasonable, come as you are, and someplace that a bunch of up-to-the-second gastronomes has never heard of. Oh, and without scooping myself.

How about this? My house.

I was thinking more along the lines of Trattoria Alberto.

But here's a better question: what are your musings, your random thoughts, your impulsive ramblings, your general philosophies on area expansionist restauranteurs and their offerings, in particular the chef-driven (Ceiba, Ten Penh), the recipe-driven (Jaleo, Zaytinya), the absentee-driven (Olives), the premise-driven (front room at Palena, tasting room at Eve), the name-driven (Clyde's), the cookie-cutter-driven (Artie's, Sweetwater Tavern)?

[morela]

One might assume that since you're writing for a weekly local paper that your column is limited to the Metro area. On the other hand, there are so many reasons to talk about the rest of the world and other big restaurant cities (and history, which you clearly have).

Are you ever going to be reporting from other cities (a weekend in NYC kind of thing or anywhere farther than Rehoboth Beach)? Is that not out of the question?

[morela]

Did you ever go to business lunches with Chris Rock? Where does he like to eat?

[Todd Kliman]

Re: burgers.

First of all, I don’t like lists. Why five? Why not three? Or 10? Why not 17?

But even as lists go, I think it’s lacking.

Philosophically lacking, I mean. There are some nice burgers on that list, don’t get me wrong, but on the whole it’s reflective of a top-down, expense-account sensibility.

The places you mention all do a really, really good burger. RTS has, unfortunately, jettisoned its wonderfully charred, multiple-topping version. Too bad – it was one of the things I loved about Ray’s when I first wrote about it a couple of years ago.

It was a sloppy burger, too – a good thing, to my mind. Celebrate the technically-perfect Palena burger, by all means, but we should also make room for a burger as messy and big and juicy and loveable as the Five Guys version at its best.

[Todd Kliman]

JPW,

I wouldn’t say the boutiquing of pizza is new, unless by new you mean in the last decade or so. But I do think that as restaurants become ever more casual places, and as they attempt to woo the kind of youngish, well-heeled people who like to eat out and often, something as versatile and simple and affordable as pizza begins to look awfully attractive as a menu item. Problem is, it’s one thing to install a wood-burning oven, quite another to turn out consistently great pies. That takes know-how and dedication and obsessive attention to detail, all of which are in relatively short supply. As they are, generally, in any creative field.

[Todd Kliman]

Prof. Kliman: Do you have any favorite food writers -- not necessarily critics -- but people who love and enjoy writing about food, e.g. MFK Fischer?

Prof. Kliman – no need to be so formal. Call me “sir.”

Let’s see … I like Jeffrey Steingarten, I like Ruth Reichl, and I grew up on Phyllis Richman (her columns, which were not just evocative but also personal, were required reading every Sunday morning). I’ve always thought Joyce was a great food writer (check out the vivid, almost voluptuous, descriptions of the meal in “The Dead." And one of my favorite moments in Ulysses is when Leopold Bloom, great relisher that he is, cooks breakfast).

[Todd Kliman]

So let’s see if I’ve got this right: in town, jeans, bar, good wine, great pasta, reasonable, come as you are, and someplace that a bunch of up-to-the-second gastronomes has never heard of. Oh, and without scooping myself.

How about this? My house.

I was thinking more along the lines of Trattoria Alberto.

But here's a better question: what are your musings, your random thoughts, your impulsive ramblings, your general philosophies on area expansionist restauranteurs and their offerings, in particular the chef-driven (Ceiba, Ten Penh), the recipe-driven (Jaleo, Zaytinya), the absentee-driven (Olives), the premise-driven (front room at Palena, tasting room at Eve), the name-driven (Clyde's), the cookie-cutter-driven (Artie's, Sweetwater Tavern)?

I’d better watch my impulsive ramblings. Let me just say that I’m not a big fan of expansionism. It’s almost always about ego, and money, and only in rare instances does the discerning diner benefit. The undiscerning diner? For the most part -- not always but for the most part -- he eats where he’s told and is susceptible to hype and image and conventional wisdom, so an offshoot of the original begins to look like something more than merely a second location – it begins to look as though a restaurant is gaining critical mass.

[Todd Kliman]

One might assume that since you're writing for a weekly local paper that your column is limited to the Metro area. On the other hand, there are so many reasons to talk about the rest of the world and other big restaurant cities (and history, which you clearly have).

Are you ever going to be reporting from other cities (a weekend in NYC kind of thing or anywhere farther than Rehoboth Beach)? Is that not out of the question?

Editors?

For obvious reasons, I’d love to. On my own dime, I travel as much as I can manage with the weekly deadlines – four cities in just the past six months, and a helluva lot of eating, to boot – in order to keep up with what’s going on nationally.

But so long as I’m writing a column for the CityPaper, I doubt very seriously that anything that doesn’t directly touch upon D.C. or surroundings is going to be in my immediate, reviewing future.

Is there maybe a benefactor in my future?

[Todd Kliman]

Did you ever go to business lunches with Chris Rock? Where does he like to eat?

No biz lunches. Those seminars were strictly work, work, work.

But since we’re talking about celebs … I was at Blue Ribbon in New York this past weekend – marrow bones with oxtail marmalade, what could be better? -- and sitting across from me, with a honey to his left and a cellphone plastered to his ear, dining on pu-pu, was none other than P. Diddy.

Puffy and pu-pu.

Keepin’ it real.

[morela]

Todd,

Obviously you've met with and interviewed a lot of chefs and RESTAURATEURS.

Is there going to be a point where you go out dining in disguise?

The big Phyllis Richman floppy hat kinda thing? If you could pick any name to have for a fake AMEX card, what would it be? I won't tell anyone.

Edited July 9, 2004 by morela (log)

[John W.]

Mssr. Kliman;

A few questions, just to get to know you better.

Bad Brains or Minor Threat?

Sette or Two Amy's?

Derrick (Palena) or Jarad (Nectar)?

Chess or backgammon?

Thomas Keller or Gordon Ramsay?

Ricard or Sambuca?

Bouchon or Bistro Jeanty?

Chambolle Musigny or Russian River?

Cats or dogs?

Ladies WITH glasses or ladies WITHOUT glasses?

It's quite a pleasure having you join us. I know it's not the Restaurant Eve employment application, but the answers to these questions will be held close to my heart.

[Busboy]

Todd --

As a former big-time restaurant reviewer myself (surely you're familiar my with dime-a-word work for The Hill Rag), I've always wondered, how is your budget set? Can you, say, spend a couple of weeks hunting the best hamburger or spring rolls, and then use the money you saved to review Laboratorio -- obviously, you'd have to try it a couple of times - or Michel Richard's Citronelle? Or do they cap your budget on a weekly basis? Do they give you the evil eye if you have more than two drinks? How many guests?

Edited July 9, 2004 by Busboy (log)

[DonRocks]

Todd,

Any guilty pleasures that you're embarrassed to admit to?

I confess to having a Wendy's spicy chicken filet this week.

Okay, so I had two.

Do you consider yourself a food critic or a food writer, or a mixture of both? Or maybe you feel that neither term is necessary to describe what you do?

[morela]

So Todd, how do you keep balance now with this gourmet lifestyle? Subsidized gym membership?

Is there any food you can't eat or that your really prefer not eat, but that you find yourself eating anyway these days?

And if you were to splurge on this very night, and take your wife to a dinner that she'd remember for the rest of her life, where you go?

Or do you rather cook at home 'cause you've been out and about so much?