Chefs: Sick of Customers Ordering Well-Done Steak?

[DCMark]

Hate hearing this about the DC store. And not for the first time--by a long shot. Both DC and Coral Gables have for some time been treated within the company as bastard children--perhaps too far removed from central for the kind of constant vigilance required. During my full time reign at the Park Ave shop--I always resisted any entreaties to expand my portfolio with any responsibility beyond m four walls--and fought like dog to keep any of my prime staff from transfer. Very recently, however, the chef of the NYC mothership, Gwenael Le Pape has begun moving regularly between stores--there is relatively new and better management (as opposed to a truly wretched one a while back)  and I hope you'll see some marked improvement.

I feel your pain--believe me--and all I can suggest is that if you get an overdone steak-- send it back and demand a new one. Letters to Les Halles mgmt in New York via website ARE read and DO make an impression.

Anthony, thanks for your input, its certainly welcome. Even though I defended DC Les Halles in this thread (http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=40896, it does have significant shortcomings. I first went there just 2 weeks after it first opened (93?) and have been a regular ever since.

I really think the recent management is problematic and they have chased all the regular waiters, bartenders and at least one chef away. Continuity is key in any relationship-based business. Its cheesy but true: its nice to go where everyone knows your name. Well, unless your name is Senator SoAndSo, they don't recognize semi-regulars at Les Halles in DC. And I am not looking for a comp, just a smile now and then.

Also, they have seemed to stop hiring French staff out front. Big mistake, they add charm and may actually know about food and wine just a bit.

Mark

Edited April 19, 2004 by DCMark (log)

[mnebergall]

Hate hearing this about the DC store. And not for the first time--by a long shot. Both DC and Coral Gables have for some time been treated within the company as bastard children--perhaps too far removed from central for the kind of constant vigilance required. During my full time reign at the Park Ave shop--I always resisted any entreaties to expand my portfolio with any responsibility beyond m four walls--and fought like dog to keep any of my prime staff from transfer. Very recently, however, the chef of the NYC mothership, Gwenael Le Pape has begun moving regularly between stores--there is relatively new and better management (as opposed to a truly wretched one a while back)  and I hope you'll see some marked improvement.

I feel your pain--believe me--and all I can suggest is that if you get an overdone steak-- send it back and demand a new one. Letters to Les Halles mgmt in New York via website ARE read and DO make an impression.

Anthony, thanks for your input, its certainly welcome. Even though I defended DC Les Halles in this thread, it does have significant shortcomings. I first went there just 2 weeks after it first opened (93?) and have been a regular ever since.

I really think the recent management is problematic and they have chased all the regular waiters, bartenders and at least one chef away. Continuity is key in any relationship-based business. Its cheesy but true: its nice to go where everyone knows your name. Well, unless your name is Senator SoAndSo, they don't recognize semi-regulars at Les Halles in DC. And I am not looking for a comp, just a smile now and then.

Also, they have seemed to stop hiring French staff out front. Big mistake, they add charm and may actually know about food and wine just a bit.

Mark

You would think that a restaurant's reservation management software would keep track of how often a customer visits an establishment. If it showed that you have eaten there ten times in the last year, a "welcome back Mr. DCMark" would be in order, or at least you would think.

[Carlovski]

Doneness (Is that a word?) does seem to suffer from escalation (Especially bad in the UK, where medium tends to be translated to just before it sets on fire).

Maybe Steakhouses should offer pictures. Less ambiguity, just point.

I wonder if it is partially to do with people ordering medium who really want well done after reading what happens to well done orders in a popular book by a certain New York chef and eGullet member?

[bilrus]

You would think that a restaurant's reservation management software would keep track of how often a customer visits an establishment. If it showed that you have eaten there ten times in the last year, a "welcome back Mr. DCMark" would be in order, or at least you would think.

Restaurants that use Open Table have this available to them.

[8Track]

You would think that a restaurant's reservation management software would keep track of how often a customer visits an establishment.  If it showed that you have eaten there ten times in the last year, a "welcome back Mr. DCMark" would be in order, or at least you would think.

Restaurants that use Open Table have this available to them.

They do indeed. I was shocked last week when I had lunch at Chef Geoffs and both my dining companion and me were given gratis soup samplers because I was an "Open Table VIP." I nearly fell out of my chair.

[Mark Sommelier]

You would think that a restaurant's reservation management software would keep track of how often a customer visits an establishment.  If it showed that you have eaten there ten times in the last year, a "welcome back Mr. DCMark" would be in order, or at least you would think.

Restaurants that use Open Table have this available to them.

OpenTable is a very handy tool. It does track reservations. If you give your email address, the system sends you a reminder in the morning. When you book online, you can add notes (anniversary, wife's birthday, etc.). There are also permanent notes that the restaurant can keep, ie: favorite wine, favorite table, children's names or other notes like "PITA".

Edited April 19, 2004 by Mark Sommelier (log)

[bilrus]

You would think that a restaurant's reservation management software would keep track of how often a customer visits an establishment.  If it showed that you have eaten there ten times in the last year, a "welcome back Mr. DCMark" would be in order, or at least you would think.

Restaurants that use Open Table have this available to them.

They do indeed. I was shocked last week when I had lunch at Chef Geoffs and both my dining companion and me were given gratis soup samplers because I was an "Open Table VIP." I nearly fell out of my chair.

I have mentioned this before on another thread, but on a visit to Ceiba where I had made my reservations on Open Table I was identified as an "eGullet VIP". But I didn't get anything special.

I guess eGullet VIP is somewhere below Open Table VIP on the totem pole.

[Rake Yohn]

You would think that a restaurant's reservation management software would keep track of how often a customer visits an establishment.  If it showed that you have eaten there ten times in the last year, a "welcome back Mr. DCMark" would be in order, or at least you would think.

Restaurants that use Open Table have this available to them.

They do indeed. I was shocked last week when I had lunch at Chef Geoffs and both my dining companion and me were given gratis soup samplers because I was an "Open Table VIP." I nearly fell out of my chair.

I have mentioned this before on another thread, but on a visit to Ceiba where I had made my reservations on Open Table I was identified as an "eGullet VIP". But I didn't get anything special.

I guess eGullet VIP is somewhere below Open Table VIP on the totem pole.

I can't say that I have ever been offered any free amuses or soup by virtue of being an Open Table VIP, but it does appear to be noted in the restauran't reservation book, at any case. Have other frequent Open Table users gotten "special" treatment?

[LARRY WIENER]

I don't know all the fancy-schmancy terms you people use, but here is why we like going to the Prime Rib in D. C. when one or both of us has (have?) a taste for steak. When we first went there and were asked how we wanted the steaks done, we said, "Seared black on the outside and pink on the inside." The waiter didn't even blink and the steaks came seared black on the outside, etc. That's good enough for us.

Now, the real current problem for us is that we don't like underdone fish. Alright, we are supposed to like it translucent or whatever, but we don't. When we forget to specify "cooked all the way through" or whatever, and get it half raw in the inside, it's a pain.

[JennyUptown]

I have used Open Table a lot recently (four times this week, in fact), but no VIP status for me, I guess.

[JPW]

I have used Open Table a lot recently (four times this week, in fact), but no VIP status for me, I guess.

Jen,

I think you have a ways to go before you can catch up to Bilrus.

Perhaps if 4 or 5 of us teamed up we could become a multiheaded "OpenTableVIP" at his level.

[Rake Yohn]

I have used Open Table a lot recently (four times this week, in fact), but no VIP status for me, I guess.

I'm pretty sure that all you need to do is rack up 12 reservations in a year to become a "VIP", or whatever.

[Suzanne F]

Don't feel bad, Jenny. The exalted status comes after you've made lots and lots of reservations. Just keep eating, girl!

And one hint: if DC also has the 1000-point reservations, go with them! I've got a lovely $50 certificate I will apply to my anniversary dinner, and am well on my way to more.

Oh, and I don't think I've ever gotten any extras for having VIP status; it pretty much depends on the restaurant, I guess. All I get is extra points, which is fine with me (see paragraph above).

[bilrus]

Don't feel bad, Jenny. The exalted status comes after you've made lots and lots of reservations. Just keep eating, girl!

That's right. Keep it up. You can join me as a "VIP" and if you really work at it you could end up being my size too.

On second thought...

[phaelon56]

When we first went there and were asked how we wanted the steaks done, we said, "Seared black on the outside and pink on the inside." The waiter didn't even blink and the steaks came seared black on the outside, etc. That's good enough for us.

Don't most places recognize the term "Pittsburgh style" or "Black and Blue"? Although I do suppose those are really more rare and red on the inside than pink.

That said.... if I routinely went to a place where they consistently delivered my medium rare steak as a medium I'd try ordering it rare. Does it stand to reason that if they regularly overcook the steak it might extend to steak ordered rare, which would come out medium rare?

Note to self: when ordering steak on a cruise ship, remove the word steak and substitute lamb, fish or poultry.

[JohnnyH]

Note to self: when ordering steak on a cruise ship, remove the word steak and substitute lamb, fish or poultry.

Why?

[JennyUptown]

Note to self: when ordering steak on a cruise ship, remove the word steak and substitute lamb, fish or poultry.

I'd just skip the cruise period.

[Al_Dente]

Note to self: when ordering steak on a cruise ship, remove the word steak and substitute lamb, fish or poultry.

I'd just skip the cruise period.

amen...

[hillvalley]

Note to self: when ordering steak on a cruise ship, remove the word steak and substitute lamb, fish or poultry.

I'd just skip the cruise period.

amen...

what they said

cruise food SUCKS

[KHT20]

Note to self: when ordering steak on a cruise ship, remove the word steak and substitute lamb, fish or poultry.

I'd just skip the cruise period.

amen...

what they said

cruise food SUCKS

And they are horribly bad for the environment - they all violate U.S. and international environmental laws by dumping millions of gallons of untreated wastes (human, fuel by-products, and otherwise) directly into the ocean every time they're out at sea.

[Mabelline]

I usually ask for charred rare but I can eat any steak they bring out providing they have juices seeping. I always let mine sit for a little bit before eating, and I must say, nearly everything I've gotten was cooked right.

[sdelgato]

One place for steak in the entire universe... Public House, Flint Hill (hinterlands) AMAZING. Full bottle CdR Mordoree 22. Prime Ribeye Rare. I still have a tear in my eye...

[Hskorz]

Although I've heard mixed things about Bobby Vans, I had a superb meal there. Everything was great, the old fashioned sour was mixed to perfection, the tomato and onion salad, the hash brown was outstanding, the creamed spinach may have been the least inspired and the rare porterhouse for two was perfect. The chocolate thing I had afterwords was fantastic as well. I read the service was getting shabby there, but that was not my experience. Our waiter almost knocked someone over rushing to the table when I so much as lifted a finger.

[Steve Klc]

I wish I could join in your lament Don. When I need a steak fix I go to Rays in Arlington, that guy Michael gets it and you get your cut the way you want it, even if it is an entrecote or hangar. You want it bright pink in the center, you get it bright pink in the center. I feel for all of you who eat steak all over town and are dissatisfied. But for me there are too many other more interesting food options than the power steak place. And Rays is in my 'hood.

"I'm a sucker for not sending it back because overcooked meat cannot be undone, and it means the house loses the entire dish. Ordering a medium-rare steak is like playing Russian Roulette, except that the gun goes off most of the time.

It's pointless to name the restaurant because this problem is widespread and doubtlessly hammered into the minds of weary corporate chefs due to snippy customers and damnable legal fear."

However, how do you expect the situation to improve if a knowledgeable, experienced, reasonable diner like yourself doesn't say anything as Bourdain advocates and as Shaw has indicated he's done as well? I appreciate the losing the entire dish angle but otherwise, where's the incentive to apply the technique or attentiveness or fix the broken links in the chain--either in the front of the house or in the back? Why shouldn't the customer--if not the server--ask what "medium rare" means to you?

I wonder if this isn't just another way the lack of awareness and lack of appreciation on the part of the general DC dining populace holds our area back--wouldn't you think that with so many chain, bistro and higher end steak places, and so many conservative diners ordering steak, that chefs would have figured out by now how to serve them reliably? Could it be that "most" diners are getting their steaks exactly as they want them--somewhat overdone?

[Mark Sommelier]

From Steve Klc: "wouldn't you think that with so many chain, bistro and higher end steak places, and so many conservative diners ordering steak, that chefs would have figured out by now how to serve them reliably? Could it be that "most" diners are getting their steaks exactly as they want them--somewhat overdone? "

At Citronelle, the steaks are cooked in the French manner. Seared in the pan, basted with whole butter, finished in a slow oven (205°). This produces a steak or lamb rack that is medium rare from side to side all the way through, not red in the middle and pink on the outer edges. Its a matter of technique.