Carmenere?

[tryska]

which isn't saying much because i don't know much about wine.

in any case - I've just been given a bottle in trade with more on the way for doing a favor for a wine salesman.

it's a Luis Felipe Edwards 2001 Carmenere.

anyone have any insight on this wine? The back label says it's "fruity, balanced with a nice vanilla and clove finish. Excellent served with pastas and white meats."

again, this means nothing to me - I may drink it, foist it on the roommate, or pass it along to someone else.

what do y'all think?

Edited January 19, 2004 by tryska (log)

[fresco]

It was originally a grape from France, I believe, but now mainly grown in Chile. Don't know about this particular producer, but I've tried others and found them very pleasant. Try it and see.

[tryska]

thanks fresco - i guess if i don't like it, i can always have roomie finish off the rest of the bottle.

[LOS]

Carmenere is a grape which was once widely planted in Bordeaux. At the beginning of the 19th century, I believe it was a majority of the acreage there. It was nearly gone by the beginning of the 20th century, supplanted by varieties which gave higher yields (but not better wine). See Andrew Barr's excellent book Wine Snobbery for details -- and to check on my facts. I am away from my books, and haven't read the book for a few years.

EDITED to add: Carmenere may well be extinct in Bordeaux now.

Edited January 19, 2004 by LOS (log)

[Florida Jim]

anyone have any insight on this wine? The back label says it's "fruity, balanced with a nice vanilla and clove finish. Excellent served with pastas and white meats."

again, this means nothing to me - I may drink it, foist it on the roommate, or pass it along to someone else.

what do y'all think?

Actually, if you ever had a Merlot from Chile you've probably had it before.

A good deal of Carmenere from there has been so labeled.

Best, Jim

[Craig Camp]

Carmenere is often confused with Cabernet Franc in northeasten Italy. There is a great example of Carmenere bottled under its own name by Inama in Veneto.

[Dave the Cook]

Carmenere is often confused with Cabernet Franc in northeasten Italy.

Confused by whom? And in what way?

[Craig Camp]

Carmenere is often confused with Cabernet Franc in northeasten Italy.

Confused by whom? And in what way?

It was mislabeled and propagated under the name of cabernet franc by nurseries throughout the 1900's in Italy - much the same as pinot bianco and chardonnay. It is only in recent times the differences have made any difference to producers.

[Dave the Cook]

Thanks, Craig. When you say that it's only recently made a difference, are you implying that carmenere has been used more or less generically in the past, and is only now being labeled as a varietal in order to give it some cachet for marketing purposes?

[tryska]

anyone have any insight on this wine?  The back label says it's "fruity, balanced with a nice vanilla and clove finish.  Excellent served with pastas and white meats."

again, this means nothing to me - I may drink it, foist it on the roommate, or pass it along to someone else.

what do y'all think?

Actually, if you ever had a Merlot from Chile you've probably had it before.

A good deal of Carmenere from there has been so labeled.

Best, Jim

so is it akin to a merlot, taste-wise?

[fresco]

It was thought to be merlot for quite a while, in Chile, at any rate.

[Craig Camp]

Thanks, Craig. When you say that it's only recently made a difference, are you implying that carmenere has been used more or less generically in the past, and is only now being labeled as a varietal in order to give it some cachet for marketing purposes?

In Italy no - nobody cares about carmenere except Inama as far as I know. Everyone else still calls it cabernet franc and no one seems much interested in the difference.

There is no market for Italian cabernet franc outside of Italy (usually for good reason) and even less so for Italian carmenere.

[tryska]

so you're saying it might not taste so good?

[fresco]

If you like merlot, chances are pretty good you'll like this. And I think merlot is the most popular red wine in the US, for whatever that's worth.

[tryska]

i may like merlot. i'm not really sure. hee hee.

i'm a hard liquor girl any day of the week.

[Carema]

Carmenere was brought down to Chile from Bordeaux in the 1850s or so and grown in the national nursery there. When Phylloxera hit Bordeaux, everything was wiped out. For some reason or another, when the vines were transplanted again in Bordeaux from Chile, Carmenere was not brought up, even though it remains a legal bordelaise grape. In Chile it has interbred quite voraciously with Merlot. There is a difference in flavor profiles between Merlot and Carmenere however: Merlot tends to speak of earth and plums and sand, esp in hot climate. Carmenere has this very distinct nose of just sliced fresh jalapeno, or hot cement that has been freshly rained upon. Carmenere has more structure coming out of Chile than Merlot could ever hope to have.

Alpatagua makes three levels of Carmenere, the basic ($12.95) being quite servicable all the way up to the Grial which is monstrous. The Edwards remains, IMO a substandard example.

PS: emoticons supplied by ewan

[Dave the Cook]

The Edwards remains, IMO a substandard example.

Even if it was free?

[Carema]

I get tons of free wine. And lots of it goes down the sink. There is no excuse for bad wine. Cheap, free or otherwise. Perhaps I could make this more diplomatic. But then I would lose my reputation as difficult

[Scott]

I was a wholesalers trade tasting about 3 years ago, and there was a prize for guessing blind there mystery wine, the only stipulation was that it was one of the wines on show, and there was a list of about 250 to look through if you wanted.

I immediately and correctly identified it as a chilean carmenere and won a bottle of champagne as the first to do so.

I didn't have the heart to them I knew straight away because it has the typical chilean carmenere finish that tasted like burnt rubber. I hate the stuff.

[tryska]

I get tons of free wine. And lots of it goes down the sink. There is no excuse for bad wine. Cheap, free or otherwise. Perhaps I could make this more diplomatic. But then I would lose my reputation as difficult

so what you're saying is never trust a wine salesman throwing mutliple bottles your way, for a favor not even remotely wine-related?

i think i might have known that already. *lol*

burn rubber finish, huh scott? that sounds appealing.

[Andre]

Give the Concha Y Toro Terrunyo a shot and skip the Sunrise.

Undurraga and Castilo de Mollina Reserva have both their own fairly simple versions though the latter might be slightly more interesting.

[Alberto]

Carmenere is often confused with Cabernet Franc in northeasten Italy. There is a great example of Carmenere bottled under its own name by Inama in Veneto.

In Veneto DOC Bagnoli and DOC Vicenza include it as a cabernet variety, actually (85% of Bagnoli Cabernet must be made of CS and/or CF and/or carmenere, 100% for Vicenza), and for what I'm aware of they're the only one in Italy.

I don't think IGT Veneto allows carmenere as a "labelling" grape, however.

Ca' del Bosco in Franciacorta makes a VdT called Carmenéro (their Pinot Noir is called Pinéro).

Alberto