East vs West

[AzRaeL]

Compare the relative merits and weaknesses of a Santoku vs a Chinese Cleaver vs a French Style Chef's Knife (thinner) and the German Style Chef's Knife.

I currently have a 6" Santoku, seems to work fine for everything i can throw at it.

There are times though where I wish for a longer blade but the 6" blade is small and light enough to handle most paring knife jobs.

Being a Knife junkie, you can never have too many knives.

What should I get next? a Wüsthof 8" Chef's knife, 8" carbon steel chinese cleaver, 8" Global Chef's knife? Or do i really need to get anything (heaven forbid) since I can almost do it all with my Santoku.

[bleachboy]

I got my wife a Dexter Chinese cleaver for Christmas after reading so much about it on eGullet, and it has almost instantly become our Knife Of Choice. I can't say for sure if it's because it's actually better or just newer, but it's a heck of a lot of fun to use, and extremely versatile.

I'm not a knife junkie, though. I think mh1 and I both just use whatever knife's handy. Before the cleaver, my knife of choice was a Kyocera ceramic. Hers was a big (12"?) American chef's knife.

[Moopheus]

I also bought a Dexter-Russell Chinese chef's knife after reading a couple of recommendations for them in Chinese cookbooks. I now have two--the 7x2" blade and the 8x3". I use them for practically everything, and rarely touch my old German knives (Henckels) any more. Dexter now makes a santuko-style knife, both with the plastic handle (cheap) and wood handle (expensive), though the actual blade is the same on both I believe. I have that too, though the 7x2 knife does most of the work.

[AzRaeL]

heh! i've seen the Dexter Russel knives at my local kitchen/houseware shop. Costs a lot less than online too. It's so inexpensive :)

[rkolluri]

I bought a Dexter Russell Chinese Chef's knife this weekend for $18.95 at a restaurant supply store in Houston (Ace Mart). I have never used one before and was amazed at how great it works. It's awesome. However, I have a question. When I bought it, it was spotless. It now has a lot of dark coloration along the edge. Is that because I did not thoroughly dry the knife after rinsing it? Is there any way to get rid of the dark coloration? Is there something special I should be doing to ensure that I do not ruin it?

rkolluri

[Moopheus]

Dexter makes those knives both with the stain-resistant steel and also in high-carbon steel. If yours is high carbon--it'll say so on the side--some staining is not unusual. Mine has a blue spot on it now too. I don't think it's a big problem as long as you clean and dry the knide after use.

[AzRaeL]

I have never used one before and was amazed at how great it works.

please elaborate on this "how great it works."

i already have a 6" Santoku (which i love) and am not sure if I need a chinese cleaver.

[newguy]

I used to be a "knife junkie" until I started working in a kitchen. The philosophy there is 1 knife fits all... I have an 8" Wüsthof chefs knife, and a $3 plastic handled pairing knife that i throw away when it gets dull. You should be able to use 1 knife for everything. So if your santuko works, spend your money on something else.

[AzRaeL]

I used to be a "knife junkie" until I started working in a kitchen. The philosophy there is 1 knife fits all... I have an 8" Wüsthof chefs knife, and a $3 plastic handled pairing knife that i throw away when it gets dull. You should be able to use 1 knife for everything. So if your santuko works, spend your money on something else.

alright then, i'll just get a bone splitter for when i cook crabs *YUM*

bash bash bash open the crabs. YUMMY.

[rkolluri]

I have never used one before and was amazed at how great it works.

please elaborate on this "how great it works."

i already have a 6" Santoku (which i love) and am not sure if I need a chinese cleaver.

I have always wanted a knife that could be used to mince garlic, ginger, etc without having to pull out my mini-food processor. The was one of the main reasons I bought this Chinese Chef's Knife (which, I now know is different from a cleaver).

As my first test with the knife, I tried to mince some garlic and ginger and was surprised at how easily I could do it and how much control I had over the extent of mincing. It may not impress some of the seasoned cooks on this forum, but I sure was amazed.

I hope that clarifies what I meant by "how great it works."

[rkolluri]

If yours is high carbon--it'll say so on the side--some staining is not unusual. Mine has a blue spot on it now too. I don't think it's a big problem as long as you clean and dry the knide after use.

Thanks for the info. My knife is a carbon steel knife.

[bankchef]

Anybody have an oddity like this: I have a Messermeister Santuka. I love it. Its my favorite knife (more than my chinese chef). But I have this thing about it touching meat. It has only once when someone grabbed it and started to clean chicken with it. I was absolutely livid. I screamed like a baby whose toy was just broken by another child. It is my veggie knife for bruniose etc and I just can't bring myself to use it with meat....

[mikeycook]

I took a knife skills class at ICE (Institute of Culinary Education) and they taught to get the largest knife you can handle and, to newguy's point, use it for almost everything. I upgraded from the 8" Henckel I got with my knife set to a 10" Henckel for our apartment. I needed another knife for our house, so I bought a 12" Sabatier Au Carbone (Carbon Steel). I have been much happier with the larger knives and use them for almost anything (except paring).

I have wanted to get a Santoku, but now they seem too small. Do they make any bigger than 7"?

Edited January 6, 2004 by mikeycook (log)

[markovitch]

cleaver all the way baby. i just took back the one i gave my parents-- they kept cutting themselves and complained it was too unwieldy. Now it needs some time on the stone, but i've never sharpened a cleaver like this before. Is there a different technique? it does not seem to have a v-angle blade, everythng is smooth from edge to bolster.

-m

[oraklet]

If yours is high carbon--it'll say so on the side--some staining is not unusual. Mine has a blue spot on it now too. I don't think it's a big problem as long as you clean and dry the knide after use.

Thanks for the info. My knife is a carbon steel knife.

i THINK that if you keep your carbon steel well polished, it will be less liable to transfer taste. mine do, if i don't wash them well. like from onion to apple...

[AzRaeL]

I took a knife skills class at ICE (Institute of Culinary Education) and they taught to get the largest knife you can handle and, to newguy's point, use it for almost everything. I upgraded from the 8" Henckel I got with my knife set to a 10" Henckel for our apartment. I needed another knife for our house, so I bought a 12" Sabatier Au Carbone (Carbon Steel). I have been much happier with the larger knives and use them for almost anything (except paring).

I have wanted to get a Santoku, but now they seem too small. Do they make any bigger than 7"?

just curious, what sorta cuts does a 12" really come into play?

I've managed fine almost ALL the time with a 6" Santoku, occasionally wishing for an 8" blade, but can't find an excuse to buy my 11" Chef's Knife.

So I wanna have a reason to buy a 12" blade.

[stephenc]

I use a Chinese cleaver for everything. It works, and I prefer a flat blade over a curved blade.

[Hest88]

Now it needs some time on the stone, but i've never sharpened a cleaver like this before.

I don't know the proper technique, but I use a rectangular stone inherited from my mother and sharpen my cleaver the same way she does: put the stone on the counter and drag the cleaver back and forth across it, alternating sides.

[Bicycle Lee]

I really love my cleaver....AND I really love my chef's knife...

I use my cleaver more, but my chef's cannot be beat for some jobs...

[mikeycook]

I took a knife skills class at ICE (Institute of Culinary Education) and they taught to get the largest knife you can handle and, to newguy's point, use it for almost everything.  I upgraded from the 8" Henckel I got with my knife set to a 10" Henckel for our apartment.  I needed another knife for our house, so I bought a 12" Sabatier Au Carbone (Carbon Steel).  I have been much happier with the larger knives and use them for almost anything (except paring).

I have wanted to get a Santoku, but now they seem too small.  Do they make any bigger than 7"?

just curious, what sorta cuts does a 12" really come into play?

I've managed fine almost ALL the time with a 6" Santoku, occasionally wishing for an 8" blade, but can't find an excuse to buy my 11" Chef's Knife.

So I wanna have a reason to buy a 12" blade.

To be honest, I wouldn't call a 12" necessary, but, to me at least, a 10" is. I use it to cut everything from a clove of garlic to a large melon or squash. One of the benefits of a larger chef's knife is that the blade isn't just longer, it's wider, which makes it easier to control when cutting through larger items.

Also, a lot has to do with the size of your hands. I have large hands and it is much more comfortable putting my thumb and forefinger on a wider blade (and safer, too). Depending on the size of your hands, you may or may not feel comfortable with a larger knife.

[mikeycook]

Now it needs some time on the stone, but i've never sharpened a cleaver like this before.

I don't know the proper technique, but I use a rectangular stone inherited from my mother and sharpen my cleaver the same way she does: put the stone on the counter and drag the cleaver back and forth across it, alternating sides.

My cleaver (a Henckel) is only sharpened on one side, so I just sharpen on that side, holding the knife at a 20 degree angle to the stone. Thereafter I just use my honing steel on that one side. The proper technique is to start at the base and move to the tip in one motion across the stone (at 20 degrees), with one hand on the handle and the other further up the blade. It definitely takes practice (sometimes I still screw up).

Edited January 7, 2004 by mikeycook (log)

[AzRaeL]

To be honest, I wouldn't call a 12" necessary, but, to me at least, a 10" is. I use it to cut everything from a clove of garlic to a large melon or squash. One of the benefits of a larger chef's knife is that the blade isn't just longer, it's wider, which makes it easier to control when cutting through larger items.

Also, a lot has to do with the size of your hands. I have large hands and it is much more comfortable putting my thumb and forefinger on a wider blade (and safer, too). Depending on the size of your hands, you may or may not feel comfortable with a larger knife.

the thing is that the 8" and the 11" Drop Forged Chef's Knives are so similar in price :)

Heh!

question: should i go for the regular lightweight Global Chef or the DropForged more hefty Global Chef?

[oraklet]

To be honest, I wouldn't call a 12" necessary, but, to me at least, a 10" is.  I use it to cut everything from a clove of garlic to a large melon or squash.  One of the benefits of a larger chef's knife is that the blade isn't just longer, it's wider, which makes it easier to control when cutting through larger items.

Also, a lot has to do with the size of your hands.  I have large hands and it is much more comfortable putting my thumb and forefinger on a wider blade (and safer, too).  Depending on the size of your hands, you may or may not feel comfortable with a larger knife.

the thing is that the 8" and the 11" Drop Forged Chef's Knives are so similar in price :)

Heh!

question: should i go for the regular lightweight Global Chef or the DropForged more hefty Global Chef?

i've got rather small hands, but i find the 12" sabatier (old carbon steel) very useful for splitting a melon or a cabbage, or for chopping large batches of onions, parsley etc. i might find it difficult to maneuver a 12" german knife, though. still, if i were you, i'd go for the drop forged, as you need some weight and heft for the splitting jobs. but do think twice about the global, as the handles may be slippery.

Edited January 8, 2004 by oraklet (log)

[AzRaeL]

but do think twice about the global, as the handles may be slippery.

always have a rag ready to wipe your hands or the knife handles

[oraklet]

sure, but you'll need it more with a global than with the wood handle on the old sabatier i've got.