Mycryo

[McDuff]

I had a lengthy conversation Monday with a guy named Derek Pho from Barry Callebaut, or Cacao Barry, whoever makes this stuff. He changed some of the numbers I was working with. They're quite willing to spend time on the phone with you. The number is 1-800-774-9131. Derek is a technical guy. There's another guy named Jeff Kulhawy who can talk intelligently about it. My boss found the ad in Pastry Arts.

Add it at the rate of 3 to 6 times what you would use for gelatin. He said, for example, if you were using cassis puree, which is fairly thick, go with the three factor. Passion puree needs more because it is thin.

Heat the puree to 60 degrees Celsius, add the mycryo and dissolve, then add the sugar and cool to 18 degrees C. Then finish assembling the preparation.

When folding in whipped cream he suggests it should be whipped to very soft peaks.

He also said you need to experiment with the stuff. Nice. We bought the book at work, but what I was looking for was not specific recipes or formulas, but general techniques.

As far as substituting it in the dulce de leche mascarpone thing, you'd be looking at 48 grams, a little less than two oz.

I was taught in school to make a gelatin solution of 1 oz of gelatin bloomed in 5 oz of water. One oz of this is used to stablize a pound of cream, or mousse. If my admittedly shaky math is correct then one oz of this solution contains .17 oz of gelatin, so I need to substitute .51 to 1.02 oz of mycryo for each oz of gelatin solution. I wish I could remember that for more than five minutes, but no...everytime I need to get the calculator and redo it. It's the drugs.

[tan319]

Thanks, Mcduff.

I called them today too

Dig this, I came home from my morning stint today and find the copy of PA&D I was looking at last night for the damned ad, and it's turned over on it's back, with the ad staring me in the face!!!

As for the call, the person I spoke to said to try 4 to 8 times the amount of gelatin I use, which is pretty close to your estimate, and yes, "you have to play around with it"!

Which I think is kind of weird.

But, whatever.

Tomorrow I will play around with it.

Question for you though.

Does it hold pretty well?

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it

[McDuff]

As for the call, the person I spoke to said to try 4 to 8 times the amount of gelatin I use, which is pretty close to your estimate, and yes, "you have to play around with it"!

Can you believe that? That's going to get out of control at 38 cents an ounce.

I made a raspberry mousse cake by dissolving the mycryo in the hot puree, then adding cold pastry cream and folding in whipped cream. I left it in the walkin for 4 days and it was perfect. No runs, no drips, no errors. I'm on vacation but can't wait to get to work and play some more. I have to submit all these forms with formulas and costs and margins and stuff in order to get a new product into the pastry case. There's a quick turnaround on the paperwork, but I know I'm going to be buried when I get back.

[bripastryguy]

McDuff,

Let me know how that mousse holds up. I may need the recipe.

[tan319]

A few thoughts on this stuff...

I'm not impressed with it as a gelatine substitute, that's for sure.

I've done two seperate trials, the second using more than 5 times the weight of my usual gelatin, which is at the high end of what they suggest ratio's should be.

The result is just a bit too iffy for me.

I used 50 grams the 1st time, dissolving it in 60 c cream and cooling it to 18c( I stickblended to emulsify, I think some one else noted, maybe M. Laiskonis, that you get a bit of an oil slick otherwise.)

This didn't gel well at all.

So I went back and used 100 grams and it was better but...

I'm a bit curious why CB would roll out a product that is so hit and miss.

Even the 150/175 dollar book that is built around this leaves one a question mark it seems.

Maybe not using gel is a bit more incentive driven in Europe with Mad Cow Disease?

I'm having a big problem with the uncertainness of the methods, the price of it, given the amount you have to use, and the idea of dicking around with any recipe I have that uses gelatin two or three times.

Of course, the kitchen staff and servers are thrilled to eat the "mistakes".

I'll have to see what it's like with chocolate and tempering.

Edited to update...

My chef just called to say they've set up rather nicely

I'll try and taste tomorrow.( i was off today)

Edited July 2, 2004 by tan319 (log)

[tan319]

Ok, it did set up.

Kind of fragile though.

It's pretty strange to have it gel w/o gel!

Unique.

Will be posting more as it happens.

[tan319]

I bagged using it for my baked/molded stuff.

One hundred grams worked alright for a minute but the structure I found wanting.

Got a bit saggy in the middle.

[Chefjk]

Thank you very much Mcduff for the nice mention. I am Jeff Kulhawy. I work for Barry callebaut , and do know alot about this product. It is a very good product, works great for a gelatine replacement . The most import thing to know is that the ratio is different from that of gelatine. Gelatine is a protein to protein bond in a mousse with the cream. This product is a fat to fat bond in the mousse. This said the average exchange is gelatine 1 to mycreo 1.6 . Knowing that this is a good way to start to work with the product. Still keep in mind depending on the fruit puree , every fruit is different with acids, and the viscosity . If the puree is is thicker it will take less than if the puree is a very watery product. I will leave my office phone number for any one with question. 1-800-836-2626 ext. 9938

[McDuff]

Thank you very much Mcduff for the nice mention.  I am Jeff Kulhawy.  I work for Barry callebaut , and do know alot about this product.  It is a very good product, works great for a gelatine replacement .  The most import thing to know is that the ratio is different from that of gelatine. Gelatine is a protein to protein bond in a mousse with the cream.  This product is a fat to fat bond in the mousse.  This said the average exchange is  gelatine 1 to mycreo 1.6 . Knowing that this is a good way to start to work with the product.  Still keep in mind depending on the fruit puree , every fruit is different with acids, and the viscosity .  If the puree is is thicker it will take less than if the puree is a very watery product.  I will leave my office phone number for any one with question.  1-800-836-2626 ext. 9938

We talked on the phone, Jeff. I'm with Whole Foods. We got approval to use the product, but again, 1 to 1.6 doesn't seem to me to be the numbers Derek gave me.

for instance, I've worked up a raspberry mousse involving the following: 16 oz prepared cold pastry cream, 8 oz raspberry puree, 3 oz Clearbrook Farms raspberry preserves, 24 oz very soft whipped cream, lemon juice and 2 oz Mycryo dissolved in some of the warmed puree. I melt the mycryo, stir till it emulsifies well with the puree, add the rest of the puree, then temper in some of the pastry cream, then fold it all together and last, add the whipped cream. You can almost feel this tighten as you fold it, and if the cream is the slightest bit too stiff, the whole thing will get grainy, which I guess is the result of the fat-to-fat thing.

This makes about 3 lb, which is enough make a half sheet cake in a frame with a nice layer inside. I have to do a demo on this product at an upcoming pastry team summit meeting for the North Atlantic region. I don't suppose you can get to Cambridge MA on August 3? You're looking at a fairly significant market here.

Actually it's a teleconference with the TriState pastry people in Edgewater NJ, if that's closer. Shimme would be the guy to talk to.

Most of the pastry people inside Whole Foods really disdain gelatin, and agar is just too expensive and quirky. Mycryo seems to be the perfect solution for us, but it's a little tricky.

The book is nice, pretty pictures yada yada, but the skill level isn't there in some of our locations, and my approach to jazzing up the pastry case involves what I call the building block approach. If we can make a nice cake filling using a Diplomat cream, which is what the above recipe is, then almost everyone can handle that, as opposed to a Bavarian, which has the added and treacherous step of making a creme anglaise.

I've forwarded a can of this to the North Atlantic region Bakehouse, as they are very interested in it. If you pm me, I can give you the name of the contact person.

Edited July 24, 2004 by McDuff (log)

[tan319]

So, what do you do if someone blows a recipe?

It would seem the volume for a Whole Foods outlet would be substantial.

Just curious....

Also, it seems the recipes a bit puree centric.

What if you're using a pate bombe?

Maybe that's addressed in the book but at 150+$, know what I mean?

[McDuff]

I'm not sure I know what you're getting at by saying the recipe is puree centric. We can get puree for 3.50 a lb, or make our own using frozen raspberries, or the really hard way, mooch culls off the produce department and make it fresh.

We don't use flavoring compounds, if that's what you mean. That's a pretty standard diplomat cream. As far as people making pate a bombes, I don't know. There is some exceptional talent in the stores, but some of the stores have pretty limited kitchens and I like to figure out how everybody can make a product, not just those of us with several mixers, a wall of ovens, 30 years of experience, and a degree. I have to make another 1/2 sheet raspberry mousse thing tomorrow, with the top covered with fruit. I'll take a picture.

The book is cheaper than $150. I think the book/cd combo might be that much. The book is not much help when it comes to figuring out how to use the stuff. Fine if you want to copy the book.

If people blow a recipe, they just have to write it off. We have coordinators who travel around helping with merchandising. We really need one who travels around training production people. My boss and I have put the bug into people's ears that that would be a perfect job for me, but it's still in development. They're opening a ridiculous number of stores in this area in the next year.

[nventura]

I attended the Pastry Forum in Vegas this year and saw many applications for Mycryo, but the most eye-opening use by far, was how it tempered chocolate in like a minute!! I loaded myself up with samples and played with it wheen i got back to work. It' amazing. Just bring your chocolate to melting temp, bring it down to 30c and add the mycryo powder (1:100)...instant temper. even if your chocolate doesnt show all the signs of temper, you can use it right away, and it stays fluid and workable for quite a while. I highly recommend trying this product.

[tan319]

McDuff,

My post should have said ARE puree centric, meaning the Barry recipes.

Sorry about the confusion.

As I've said before, it seems weird to put out a product that you have to play with so much.

But, if it works for you guys...

The tempering thing seems very interesting.

I've been getting into tempering (finally) and have pretty good sucess.

Tempering Milk Chocolate, specifically, and it's turning out great,

I just hate working in the heat and humidity in my shop, which should be wreaking havoc on my product.

Anything that can make it work more to my advantage.

[Lloydchoc]

As soon as I read the info on Mycryo, I knew I had to get some to use for seed in tempering chocolate. I have used it twice, and I have not gotten the quality of temper that I can get using chocolate seed. It seems like it should work though. There were some mitigating circumstances--it has been very hot and humid lately and it is difficult to get a good temper using traditional methods. I have tried calling Jeff at Callebaut but he hasn't returned my call--perhaps he is on vacation.

I can do a very good job tempering using chocolate seed, but I thought that using mycryo which I assume is pure type V crystals would give me more control over the process under difficult conditions.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

[dejaq]

Mycryo, interesting stuff tried a container a while back the week it came out,

my thoughts are the following:

it's expensive, you need to use more than the specs say to create a "firm" set on mousse or bavarian, it has applcations for those not sold on traditional methods, otherwise stay with sheets, they are standardized and a lot less$$$$.

I have also heard of the tempering trick, I am going to give it a shot soon.

[tan319]

As soon as I read the info on Mycryo, I knew I had to get some to use for seed in tempering chocolate. I have used it twice, and I have not gotten the quality of temper that I can get using chocolate seed. It seems like it should work though. There were some mitigating circumstances--it has been very hot and humid lately and it is difficult to get a good temper using traditional methods. I have tried calling Jeff at Callebaut but he hasn't returned my call--perhaps he is on vacation.

I can do a very good job tempering using chocolate seed, but I thought that using mycryo which I assume is pure type V crystals would give me more control over the process under difficult conditions.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

I used it once for tempering, under humid conditions.

It worked ok but I didn't like the look of it.

I found that same look in the mousse I made with it. if you know what I mean.

I may try it again for tempering once humidity goes away.

[bripastryguy]

Anyone perfected anything with this product?

I have resorted to use it some of my desserts to acheive a firmer product when frozen (with the heat in NY right now, my roof top compressor is working vertime and my freezer isnt going below 0)

I am looking for proven conversions from gelatin for pastry shop applications not plated desserts.

[mpshort]

Okay, just had purveyor drop off a full sized container of this stuff

Mycryo

(don't you just love full sized free samples? ) But I have no idea how to use it! Any tips, suggestions and/or help would be much appreciated!

[nathanm]

I have the mycryo book, and have read the thread. I am a bit curious about the non-chocolate uses of mycryo.

As somebody mentioned, this product is made by spray-freezing coca butter. This technque solidifies the CB in a crystalline form which is supposedly helpful.

I can see why this would help in tempering chocolate, because the whole point in tempering chocolate is to change CB crystal structure into a different form, and seeding it with the correct form is very valid.

Here is what bothers me - using mycryo in mousses, bavarians and other non-chocolate pastry creams as a gelatin substitute involves MELTING it - that is why you heat the mixture to 60C/140F and mix it in. The special crystal structure is not going to affect rasberry puree.

Now, if you melt the mycryo, what is the point of the special spray freezing and the crystal structure? Indeed the "oil slick" mentioned in previous posts describes exactly that.

Put another way, I suspect that ordinary CB would work identically to mycryo when it comes to use as a gelatine substitute. I will admit that I have not tried this, but it surely stands to reason.

Does anybody know?

[francois]

According to Cacao Barry, the mycryo can be used for sauteing or in savory sauces. Anyone used it for that purpose? How do you use it? In what porportion compared to butter or oil?

[aidensnd2]

I heard some talk awhile ago about a Mycryo cookbook. Just wondering where it was available from.

Thanks

[bibbotson]

L'Eveil des Sens (All The Pleasures of Flavor) by Phillippe Bertrand & Philippe Marand is available from JBPrince and CHIPS Books. Note that CHIPS has it available as the book & CDROM combo (same as JBPrince) but also the two sold separately (search around the CHIPS site to locate the separate listings).

[aidensnd2]

Cool, thanks

[lapasterie]

Does anyone have this book? How is it?

[chefpeon]

I just got my order of Mycryo in today. I plan to use it mostly to temper chocolate, but it

would be nice to incorporate it into other things especially if there's a benefit to it. The

Callebaut site has some info on how to use it in pastry and savory applications, but nothing

as comprehensive as the book you mentioned.

But being the frugal person I am, I can't see spending $139 on the book and $59 on the CD for

info on how to use just ONE product. Why are these books so DARN expensive????