Balsamico Tradizionale di Modena

[docsconz]

I'm trying to plan my limited time around Modena. I would very much like to visit an aceitaia di balsamico for a tour, tasting and purchase. I'll be staying at the Villa Gaidello east of Modena. They suggest an aceitaia nearby called Catani, but I cannot find any additional info on them. Other suggestions have been Malpighi, for which I have the information with which to set up an appointment and Pedroni at Osteria di Rubbiara.

I'm interested in 12y/o balsamicos for gifts as well as more aged vinegars and reserves. The balsamic candies and chocolates are also items on my list.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

[Fat Guy]

Doc, I have it on excellent authority that this is THE place:

http://acetaiadelcristo.it/english/welcome.htm

If you want to order some before you go, as usual, Rare Wine Co. is where it's at:

http://www.rarewineco.com

[tjaehnigen]

We stayed at Il Gaidello (be prepared for rustic and only one staff member who speaks English (the owner's niece). It was nice there though.

Catena, the family producer, is just down the road (the SS9 towards Modena. Marthe, the owner's niece (maybe 40-ish woman) can call them to set it up for you. The younger woman at Catena does speak some English and she shows a good tour. They sell balsamico up to 40-year old stuff (over 100 euros for a quarter liter though). We picked up some 8-year old and 18-year old while we were there. This was just last month -- heck two weeks ago!

Enjoy your trip!

[docsconz]

Thanks for the feedback.

TJ,

Did you get to compare the balsamico with others? How was it? How long did the tour take? Did you also visit a casefeicio through Gaidello? Did you "help" them make pasta? What time of day did they do that?

Hope those aren't too many questions. I appreciate your input.

[docsconz]

We tasted balsamico at Acetaia del Cristo and Osteria di Rubiara (Pedroni). Both were superb, although we got to taste two samples of 100 year old balsamico at Acetaia del Cristo - one called aceto di la Nonna and the other from predominantly mulberry casks. Both were spectacular, although the mulberry was unbelievable. Unfortunately they had none of the 100 y/o's available for sale.

[Bill Klapp]

I have always been a big fan of Giusti's balsamico products at every level, but the annoying thing there is that their private stash (only some of which makes it into their commercial products from time to time) is supposed to be the sine qua non, but no visits and no tastes for we mere mortals.

[docsconz]

We had lunch at Giusti, but unfortunately, we didn't get to taste their balsamico outside of whatever dishes it might have been included in. The restaurant was excellent, but I got the distinct impression that we weren't treated quite as well as the native Italian patrons, even though I was able to communicate in Italian.

[Bill Klapp]

John, one of the problems in Modena is that they simply don't see many English-speakers. Before we could manage in Italian, we found in Modena that we were either curiosities that received a warmer reception than was deserved by those who could speak a few words of English, or else treated with some reserve and skepticism, but not badly. (It is important to note that while Craig Camp is fluent in Italian, he is still treated badly in Modena. That is because he is too cheap to spring for the really old balsamico!)

[docsconz]

I wanted to buy some of the century old stuff, but there wasn't any available for purchase now for the likes of me.

[fortedei]

Okay, we'll start a balsamico topic.

At the bottom of this post is what I posted on the other thread. I would add to this thought that no one, Docsconz, is questioning if you liked the balsamico that you had; obviously you did and that is all good. I was raising the issue of the statement you made:

"Wendy, did you happen to note which Acetaia the 100yo balsamico was from? When my son and I were given some 100y/o balsamico to taste at Acetaia del Cristo, it was one of the highlights of our trip - truly wonderful stuff."

As outlined below (once again), I'm very skeptical about the existence of 100 year old balsamico. When someone says that they've had a "100 year old balsamico" and asks which was the acetaia that another person had their "100 year old balsamico" (with a photo shown of the "100 year old balsamico"), it doesn't ring true.

It still doesn't ring true and again that doesn't in any way mean that the people (Docsconz and Wendy) haven't very much enjoyed whatever they had. It just means that if we're going to put "factual" statements on here (as opposed to our impressions, preferences, likes, dislikes etc, which are subjective, but valid), there should be some effort made to make sure the "facts" are accurate.

Below is what I originally wrote.

"Doesn't it strike people (perhaps not) that there is one heck of a lot of 100 year old balsamico around. How is that possible? Let's see... there had to be immense barrels of the initial batch because over 100 years the liquid would have to have evaporated substantially, if not totally. Then you have the question as to who would have had the foresight in 1906 to keep balsamico that long. In 1926, did all those people who were making balsamico say to themselves "aha, if we keep this for another 80 years, Americans will develope a taste for it, even though they don't know what balsamico is, and they will pay big bucks for even tiny drops of it? What happened to the 100 year old balsamico in its 36th. year, 1942, when the area was in German hands? Did it remain in the acetaie untouched?

If you talk to the most reputable and famous restaurant owners in a 50 km. radius of Modena, you will hear the laughter when you talk about 100 year old balsamico. If it existed (and no one can prove it one way or the other) they would have had a chance to buy it and would have done so. It's a bit like the 200 plus year old Bordeaux that President Jefferson purportedly had bottled (with his initials on the bottle). Or, to take a topic closer to our hearts... Alba truffles in early September. As the Swiss Chef said so well about truffles in general... the best place to get them is Moncalvo, because too much of what is sold in Alba comes from other places. I would add that many of those places don't happen to be in Italy."

[robyn]

Whether or not the stuff is real - the going rate seems to be about $500 for 100 ml.

Even if the stuff is real - would it be that much better than really good aged balsamic that was perhaps 25 years old (just because something is really really old doesn't mean that it's really really good)? Robyn

[divina]

I have been living here in Italy since 1984.. people have been making balsamico forever.

I will be glad to get the real lowdown on hwat they can call 100 year old Balsamico.

I assume that peoples grandaddies and before even.. had started making balsamico.. and that certain tiny barrells, containing that precious stash... are around. It is used a doweries and comsumed in tiny spoons with great respect.

Now that the market has been flooded with lots of US$$$$$$ there seems to be a lot more.

Even the 12 year old..IS NOT 12 YEARS OLD.. but rather has been in the last barrel for 12 years ( from the first deposit) the last deposit was not 12 years ago.

So that said... I will follow up with a phone call to Modena and talk to my balsamic guy!

What interests me more...

is when I was contacted by a to be nameless person from California that wanted to be a already 12 year old series of barrels to start a Califonia Balsamic vinegar business.

Cheating?

Don't get me started on numbers on bottles.. that are not years or adding glucose, vinegar or sugar..

Fake balsamics are great.. but someones time and traditions and work are to be respected.

[divina]

PS I get my balsamico from Conti at the central market in FLorence ( he has a site) the 30 year old Patriach that goes for $499 in America is 85 Euro here.

shipping costs!

I also think that since so little is available.. they mark it up.

I can get 50 and 100.. will also get the prices on that.

If I do a cost per serving. 100 ml is 100 eyedroppers, so $5 a eyedropper which is quite a bit..

Doesn't see a lot forthe added value to a dish.

I think most people that buy it look at what is being saved with cooking at home instead of going out.. I know I do!

so my 30 year old is 85 eurocents or about $1,20 for an eyedropper.

If I serve 3 grilled lambchops, some tuscan white beans with new oil, ( got mine at the mill yesterday for 8 euro a liter, see my egblog, last entry)

and add 1/2 eyedropper of balsamico....what did that cost me and what would it cost in a restaurant?

I always find it amazing that people question the cost of food... but not a Gucci bag at thousands of dollars or a Hummer.

but a organic chicken at $10.. god forbid!

Farmers and artisan food producers maintaining tradtion deserve tp live a decent life too.

That said.. those that take advantage of a name to produce inferior quality products.. are creeps!

[docsconz]

Okay, we'll start a balsamico topic.

At the bottom of this post is what I posted on the other thread. I would add to this thought that no one, Docsconz, is questioning if you liked the balsamico that you had; obviously you did and that is all good. I was raising the issue of the statement you made:

"Wendy, did you happen to note which Acetaia the 100yo balsamico was from? When my son and I were given some 100y/o balsamico to taste at Acetaia del Cristo, it was one of the highlights of our trip - truly wonderful stuff."

As outlined below (once again), I'm very skeptical about the existence of 100 year old balsamico. When someone says that they've had a "100 year old balsamico" and asks which was the acetaia that another person had their "100 year old balsamico" (with a photo shown of the "100 year old balsamico"), it doesn't ring true.

It still doesn't ring true and again that doesn't in any way mean that the people (Docsconz and Wendy) haven't very much enjoyed whatever they had. It just means that if we're going to put "factual" statements on here (as opposed to our impressions, preferences, likes, dislikes etc, which are subjective, but valid), there should be some effort made to make sure the "facts" are accurate.

Below is what I originally wrote.

"Doesn't it strike people (perhaps not) that there is one heck of a lot of 100 year old balsamico around. How is that possible? Let's see... there had to be immense barrels of the initial batch because over 100 years the liquid would have to have evaporated substantially, if not totally. Then you have the question as to who would have had the foresight in 1906 to keep balsamico that long. In 1926, did all those people who were making balsamico say to themselves "aha, if we keep this for another 80 years, Americans will develope a taste for it, even though they don't know what balsamico is, and they will pay big bucks for even tiny drops of it? What happened to the 100 year old balsamico in its 36th. year, 1942, when the area was in German hands? Did it remain in the acetaie untouched?

If you talk to the most reputable and famous restaurant owners in a 50 km. radius of Modena, you will hear the laughter when you talk about 100 year old balsamico. If it existed (and no one can prove it one way or the other) they would have had a chance to buy it and would have done so. It's a bit like the 200 plus year old Bordeaux that President Jefferson purportedly had bottled (with his initials on the bottle). Or, to take a topic closer to our hearts... Alba truffles in early September. As the Swiss Chef said so well about truffles in general... the best place to get them is Moncalvo, because too much of what is sold in Alba comes from other places. I would add that many of those places don't happen to be in Italy."

←

As I said earlier, I don't doubt your skepticism. You have good reasons for it, however, some of your logic is faulty. WWII was certainly traumatic to the area with plenty of losses as it was elsewhere in Europe including the famous wine regions of France. Nevertheless, even there valuable wines were protected and preserved. Why not in Modena as well?

I did not walk in off the street to the Acetaia, one of top repute. I was introduced to it by a very well-connected friend, who has written a very good book on Balsamico in which this particular Acetaia was featured. Especially given the quality of what I had (and yes, Robyn, it really was that much better), I have no reason to doubt that what they gave me was what it was purported to be.

To the poster who said that balsamici tradizionale from Modena are labeled as either 12 or 25+ (extra-vecchio) technically that is true, however, that does not mean that there aren't special bottlings of the vinegar with greater age and weight to them. Perhaps some of the age labeling is hyperbole, but if tasted side by side in a blind fashion one can definitely taste and feel the difference.

Perhaps you, Fortedei, are taking the 100yo designation too literally and assuming that the nectar is all 100yo and therefore would be almost completely dissipated. It is still a product of the solera type system that is used for balsamici, so that the oldest vinegar within the cask is at least 100 years old, but that the bulk of the fluid comes from other younger vintages that have been added over the years. Regardless the vinegar asa whole is still considerably more aged than other balsamici.

I said that I did not have the opportunity to buy this stuff at Acetaia del Cristo in Modena as they were out of bottled stock. It is rare stuff, but it is available for sale - at The Rare Wine Company. For anyone who remains skeptical I suggest you buy some and taste it side by side with 12 or 25 y/o balsamici tradizionale.

[fortedei]

Okay, we'll start a balsamico topic.

At the bottom of this post is what I posted on the other thread. I would add to this thought that no one, Docsconz, is questioning if you liked the balsamico that you had; obviously you did and that is all good. I was raising the issue of the statement you made:

"Wendy, did you happen to note which Acetaia the 100yo balsamico was from? When my son and I were given some 100y/o balsamico to taste at Acetaia del Cristo, it was one of the highlights of our trip - truly wonderful stuff."

As outlined below (once again), I'm very skeptical about the existence of 100 year old balsamico. When someone says that they've had a "100 year old balsamico" and asks which was the acetaia that another person had their "100 year old balsamico" (with a photo shown of the "100 year old balsamico"), it doesn't ring true.

It still doesn't ring true and again that doesn't in any way mean that the people (Docsconz and Wendy) haven't very much enjoyed whatever they had. It just means that if we're going to put "factual" statements on here (as opposed to our impressions, preferences, likes, dislikes etc, which are subjective, but valid), there should be some effort made to make sure the "facts" are accurate.

Below is what I originally wrote.

"Doesn't it strike people (perhaps not) that there is one heck of a lot of 100 year old balsamico around. How is that possible? Let's see... there had to be immense barrels of the initial batch because over 100 years the liquid would have to have evaporated substantially, if not totally. Then you have the question as to who would have had the foresight in 1906 to keep balsamico that long. In 1926, did all those people who were making balsamico say to themselves "aha, if we keep this for another 80 years, Americans will develope a taste for it, even though they don't know what balsamico is, and they will pay big bucks for even tiny drops of it? What happened to the 100 year old balsamico in its 36th. year, 1942, when the area was in German hands? Did it remain in the acetaie untouched?

If you talk to the most reputable and famous restaurant owners in a 50 km. radius of Modena, you will hear the laughter when you talk about 100 year old balsamico. If it existed (and no one can prove it one way or the other) they would have had a chance to buy it and would have done so. It's a bit like the 200 plus year old Bordeaux that President Jefferson purportedly had bottled (with his initials on the bottle). Or, to take a topic closer to our hearts... Alba truffles in early September. As the Swiss Chef said so well about truffles in general... the best place to get them is Moncalvo, because too much of what is sold in Alba comes from other places. I would add that many of those places don't happen to be in Italy."

←

As I said earlier, I don't doubt your skepticism. You have good reasons for it, however, some of your logic is faulty. WWII was certainly traumatic to the area with plenty of losses as it was elsewhere in Europe including the famous wine regions of France. Nevertheless, even there valuable wines were protected and preserved. Why not in Modena as well?

I did not walk in off the street to the Acetaia, one of top repute. I was introduced to it by a very well-connected friend, who has written a very good book on Balsamico in which this particular Acetaia was featured. Especially given the quality of what I had (and yes, Robyn, it really was that much better), I have no reason to doubt that what they gave me was what it was purported to be.

To the poster who said that balsamici tradizionale from Modena are labeled as either 12 or 25+ (extra-vecchio) technically that is true, however, that does not mean that there aren't special bottlings of the vinegar with greater age and weight to them. Perhaps some of the age labeling is hyperbole, but if tasted side by side in a blind fashion one can definitely taste and feel the difference.

Perhaps you, Fortedei, are taking the 100yo designation too literally and assuming that the nectar is all 100yo and therefore would be almost completely dissipated. It is still a product of the solera type system that is used for balsamici, so that the oldest vinegar within the cask is at least 100 years old, but that the bulk of the fluid comes from other younger vintages that have been added over the years. Regardless the vinegar asa whole is still considerably more aged than other balsamici.

I said that I did not have the opportunity to buy this stuff at Acetaia del Cristo in Modena as they were out of bottled stock. It is rare stuff, but it is available for sale - at The Rare Wine Company. For anyone who remains skeptical I suggest you buy some and taste it side by side with 12 or 25 y/o balsamici tradizionale.

←

Unfortunately, some of your facts are incorrect. Also, it is disheartening to see that you are now saying that the quality of what you had was excellent (as I said before, no problem with that, that’s all good) rather than your first statement that you had 100 year old balsamico. Now you talk about labels containing hyperbole and the “vinegar as a whole is still considerably more aged than other balsamici.”

As for facts…I saw the process through a 15 year period. My name was on the barrel during the first year and was on a different barrel at the end of 15. I think you are very confused about what the solera system is all about. With regard to your comment about the war. Perhaps some balsamico was protected and preserved. Doubtful, but possible. If you’ve ever read Italian books about the effect of the war in Emilia, you know that the scope of the war was very different from that in and around Bordeaux. In 1942, were large barrels, filled with (at that time) 36 year old balsamico, unscatched? Perhaps… but then again perhaps there were no large barrels of 36 year old balsamico in 1942.

Here is a story to think about. A close friend of mine invited two of his friends (very well known academics) to dinner at my house. One of these people is Italian, who lives in Rome, the other American. Both fancy themselves as oenophiles and pay a great deal of attention to what they eat and drink. They have spent inordinate amounts of time at table, in France, Italy of course, and in the U.S. They know a lot of vintners and lots of famous restaurateurs. They’ve drunk great quantites of the best bottles of France, Italy, the U.S. and Australia (and it seems as if they have total recall because they can recite the litany of most of what they’ve had). This time when we had them over, I though we’d serve the wines blind. They were very enthusiastic when I proposed this. The first wine was poured and they discussed its merits ad infinitum. I asked them two simple questions: where was the wine from and what was the predominant grape. After considerable discussion and much amusement for the rest of us at the table, they decided that it was syrah, from the Rhone and probably a Cote Rotie from Guigal ( I’m making this last part up because I really don’t remember exactly what they said, but it makes my point). The wine was a Barolo. The response was “oh, right, yes of course, I should have noticed that by the tannins, clearly a Barolo, blah, blah, blah). We did it again for another wine, this time using a Jaboulet Hermitage. Their guess was a Burgundy. Can’t get the grape, in one case couldn’t get the country. I’ve seen this over and over again with professional tasters.

Bevi il vino, non l’etichette, but if the label says this is what it is, that is what it should be. People count on it whether it is wine or balsamico.

[robyn]

Well all I can tell all of you is the first time I had an aged balsamic was in Key West Florida. Served by Norman Van Aken over strawberries. It was great - but I doubt it was 100 years old - not in Key West in 1970 something. Which is why I asked about the difference between 25 years and 100 years.

Also - I can relate to the story about blind wine tastings (and blind tastings about other things). In a recent tasting of exotic expensive vodkas - someone threw in Smirnoff just for laughs - and it wound up winning the tasting. Robyn

[docsconz]

Unfortunately, some of your facts are incorrect. Also, it is disheartening to see that you are now saying that the quality of what you had was excellent (as I said before, no problem with that, that’s all good) rather than your first statement that you had 100 year old balsamico. Now you talk about labels containing hyperbole and the “vinegar as a whole is still considerably more aged than other balsamici.”

As for facts…I saw the process through a 15 year period. My name was on the barrel during the first year and was on a different barrel at the end of 15. I think you are very confused about what the solera system is all about. With regard to your comment about the war. Perhaps some balsamico was protected and preserved. Doubtful, but possible. If you’ve ever read Italian books about the effect of the war in Emilia, you know that the scope of the war was very different from that in and around Bordeaux. In 1942, were large barrels, filled with (at that time) 36 year old balsamico, unscatched?  Perhaps… but then again perhaps there were no large barrels of 36 year old balsamico in 1942.

←

First of all, I am sorry if I "dishearten" you.

I am not sure what "facts" of mine you are calling "incorrect". Over fifteen years your name traveled from a larger barrel to a smaller one. That is how it should have been. In the course of those fifteen years though the liquid was mixed with older vinegar that was left in the barrel. The barrels are never fully emptied. Each year each barrel has some vinegar poured off either for bottling depending on where that barrel is in the cycle or into smaller, older barrels for continued admixture and aging.

A good description of the process is given by Pamela Sheldon Johns in her excellent book Balsamico!

The process begins with the smallest barrel of the battery, which is presumably where the aceto balsamico has reached the point of greatest aging...First, a portion of the elixir is removed to be bottled for immediate use. Approximately 20 percent is drawn out, and the barrel is never completely emptied. The barrel is then "topped off" with balsamic vinegar from the next largest barrel in the battery. The term topping off is a little misleading, as the barrels are never actually filled to the top, just replenished to 75 percent capacity. The step is repeated for each barrel until the open space is left in the last and largest barrel. This is where the new cooked must is added.

How am I confused? It is you who I think is confused. 36yo balsamic vinegar would not have been in "large barrels" during the war or at any other time. In addition, why is it so hard to believe that some balsamico would have been protected by the people who invested so much time into making it? Did the industry start up completely anew after the war? Show me some solid evidence of that and you might have a point. Besides at that time balsamico was a mostly local or regional tradition with mostly local or regional importance. It was really only late in the twentieth century that balsamico developed much of an audience outside of E-R. It's value would not likely have been great to outsiders bent on destruction, though undoubtedly plenty of good stuff was wasted or ruined.

As for my comments that "disheartened" you, I was conceding some to your skepticism, but the more I think about it the less I feel I need to concede in that regard. What my son and I tasted that day out of the tiny barrel in the barrel rooms of the Acetaia del Cristo was a truly magnificent and special syrup even more than their other vinegars, which were also delicious. I have no reason to doubt that it was what they said it was. So unless you have some real "facts" to add instead of anecdotes about your friends inability to differentiate wines tasted blindly, I consider this element of the discussion for me closed.

[fortedei]

Unfortunately, some of your facts are incorrect. Also, it is disheartening to see that you are now saying that the quality of what you had was excellent (as I said before, no problem with that, that’s all good) rather than your first statement that you had 100 year old balsamico. Now you talk about labels containing hyperbole and the “vinegar as a whole is still considerably more aged than other balsamici.”

As for facts…I saw the process through a 15 year period. My name was on the barrel during the first year and was on a different barrel at the end of 15. I think you are very confused about what the solera system is all about. With regard to your comment about the war. Perhaps some balsamico was protected and preserved. Doubtful, but possible. If you’ve ever read Italian books about the effect of the war in Emilia, you know that the scope of the war was very different from that in and around Bordeaux. In 1942, were large barrels, filled with (at that time) 36 year old balsamico, unscatched?  Perhaps… but then again perhaps there were no large barrels of 36 year old balsamico in 1942.

←

First of all, I am sorry if I "dishearten" you.

I am not sure what "facts" of mine you are calling "incorrect". Over fifteen years your name traveled from a larger barrel to a smaller one. That is how it should have been. In the course of those fifteen years though the liquid was mixed with older vinegar that was left in the barrel. The barrels are never fully emptied. Each year each barrel has some vinegar poured off either for bottling depending on where that barrel is in the cycle or into smaller, older barrels for continued admixture and aging.

A good description of the process is given by Pamela Sheldon Johns in her excellent book Balsamico!

The process begins with the smallest barrel of the battery, which is presumably where the aceto balsamico has reached the point of greatest aging...First, a portion of the elixir is removed to be bottled for immediate use. Approximately 20 percent is drawn out, and the barrel is never completely emptied. The barrel is then "topped off" with balsamic vinegar from the next largest barrel in the battery. The term topping off is a little misleading, as the barrels are never actually filled to the top, just replenished to 75 percent capacity. The step is repeated for each barrel until the open space is left in the last and largest barrel. This is where the new cooked must is added.

How am I confused? It is you who I think is confused. 36yo balsamic vinegar would not have been in "large barrels" during the war or at any other time. In addition, why is it so hard to believe that some balsamico would have been protected by the people who invested so much time into making it? Did the industry start up completely anew after the war? Show me some solid evidence of that and you might have a point. Besides at that time balsamico was a mostly local or regional tradition with mostly local or regional importance. It was really only late in the twentieth century that balsamico developed much of an audience outside of E-R. It's value would not likely have been great to outsiders bent on destruction, though undoubtedly plenty of good stuff was wasted or ruined.

As for my comments that "disheartened" you, I was conceding some to your skepticism, but the more I think about it the less I feel I need to concede in that regard. What my son and I tasted that day out of the tiny barrel in the barrel rooms of the Acetaia del Cristo was a truly magnificent and special syrup even more than their other vinegars, which were also delicious. I have no reason to doubt that it was what they said it was. So unless you have some real "facts" to add instead of anecdotes about your friends inability to differentiate wines tasted blindly, I consider this element of the discussion for me closed.

←

Two things:

1. Glad to hear that you still believe you and your son tasted a truly magnificent and special syrup that was 100 year old balsamico. Have you ever been to a non commercial acetaia... the late Franco Colombani's perhaps?

2. How did that first small barrel get to be what it is? I know how mine got there. I think you are challenged visually and mathematically with regard to aging, but we're not going to get anywhere discussing that. I haven't read Balsamico, but I have looked at some of Pamela Sheldon Johns' other books. She has a good imagination, but as for substance...?

[Swisskaese]

I think it would be very difficult to have a large quantity of 100-year-old balsamico, because:

Ermes Malpighi, another well-respected producer in Modena, describes the essentials needed for traditional balsamic vinegar. "To create this ancient product, there are five requirements: the zona tipica [the legal zone for production]; the grapes; the influence of the climate; the barrels; and the passion." Malpighi produces 4,000 bottles of balsamico tradizionale a year from approximately 520 barrels. He explains: "After 25 years, between 70 and 90 kilos of grapes will yield just over seven bottles of balsamico extravecchio [extra-old balsamic vinegar]. That kind of reduction represents a great investment in many ways, but especially in terms of time."

See this interesting article about balsamico.

Maybe the real story is that the 100-year-old balsamico is 50-year-old balsamico with a few drops of 100-year-old balsamico.

Edited November 16, 2006 by Swisskaese (log)

[docsconz]

I think it would be very difficult to have a large quantity of 100-year-old balsamico, because:

Ermes Malpighi, another well-respected producer in Modena, describes the essentials needed for traditional balsamic vinegar. "To create this ancient product, there are five requirements: the zona tipica [the legal zone for production]; the grapes; the influence of the climate; the barrels; and the passion." Malpighi produces 4,000 bottles of balsamico tradizionale a year from approximately 520 barrels. He explains: "After 25 years, between 70 and 90 kilos of grapes will yield just over seven bottles of balsamico extravecchio [extra-old balsamic vinegar]. That kind of reduction represents a great investment in many ways, but especially in terms of time."

See this interesting article about balsamico.

Maybe the real story is that the 100-year-old balsamico is 50-year-old balsamico with a few drops of 100-year-old balsamico.

←

I do not doubt that there are not large quantities of 100yo balsamico. In fact, I agree that therer can not be large volumes of legitimate product, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist at all or is totally unavailable as has been implied on this thread. It also would not surprise me if there were some out there misrepresenting product. That too does not mean that legitimate product does not exist.

[tim]

Hi,

About 10 years ago, I was given a bottle of "100 year old" balsamico and alway wondered about the real age.

The box is labled "Antico Condimento" but the bottle says "Extravecchio" which I think indicates that it is not truly an antique.

100 year old balsamic is like many of the prized and rare Ferrari's from the 1960's. Of the 250 (or so) original Ferrari GTO's produced, only 1,200 survive today.

Tim

ps: I am truly dismayed that vintners would transfer a Cote Rotie to a Barolo bottle or transfer a burgundy to a Jaboulet Hermitage bottle. Your story, about this subterfuge, confirms that unscrupulous dealers are willing to misrepresent or change labeling just to obtain a higher price.

Edited November 16, 2006 by tim (log)

[fortedei]

Hi,

About 10 years ago, I was given a bottle of "100 year old" balsamico and alway wondered about the real age.

The box is labled "Antico Condimento" but the bottle says "Extravecchio" which I think indicates that it is not truly an antique.

100 year old balsamic is like many of the prized and rare Ferrari's from the 1960's.  Of the 250 (or so) original Ferrari GTO's produced, only 1,200 survive today.

Tim

ps:  I am truly dismayed that vintners would transfer a Cote Rotie to a Barolo bottle or transfer a burgundy to a Jaboulet Hermitage bottle.  Your story, about this subterfuge, confirms that unscrupulous dealers are willing to misrepresent or change labeling just to obtain a higher price.

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Bravo! That was just great.

[menton1]

Well, this balsamico labeling subterfuge led me right into thoughts of its partner, Olive oil. About 95% of the olive oil that is labeled "Italy" is only put in the bottles in Italy, after it is shipped in drums from where it is grown and pressed, which is Spain!!

I once met the Spanish Ambassador at a film festival and he was rather miffed at the short shrift Spain gets for producing all this oil!!

So maybe an "Italy" olive oil goes well with a 100 year old Balsamico??