Drought

[yvonne johnson]

Christopher, thanks for the update on the city's mandates. As for being puzzled by customers' reactions I'm wondering if I can explain them this way: Those who always order bottled water will pay the usual price, no? By lowering the price and explaining it is because of the drought, the person who would not usually buy bottled water is put in the position of being encouraged to buy it, for the supposed good of the planet. I can't explain lowering the price, if the aim wasn't to encourage more customers to drink bottled rather than tap. Maybe the restaurants offering the special price have other reasons, but this is the manipulation I imagine others like me would feel.

Steven when you write "people are not always motivated exclusively by money...Why else would some of the smartest and most talented people in the world be poor or of modest means? In most cases, it is by choice. In some cases, that has even been proven to be by choice."  Are you referring to people of reasonable means opting not to be rich? My understanding is that half of the world's population lives on $2 (per person) a day, and that's not by choice, surely. Maybe I've taken your "in the world" too literally ???

[Wilfrid]

Yes, I feel strongly about this too.  I think "gestures", even when well-intentioned, can be most harmful if misconceived.  I don't have the figures to hand, but it's quite clear that even a quick shower accounts for more water use than a heck of a lot of drinking by very thirsty people.  Hundreds of glasses of water, I should think.  The proposal by the restaurants misleads people into thinking they are doing something helpful by ordering bottled water, when in fact it is so insignificant as to be irrelevant.  I think this is a minor example of a much wider social problem, where people are encouraged to think that small and well-intentioned gestures signficiantly address a social problem, thus relieving them of the responsibility to take more burdensome action.

As for the city's apparent complicity in this - seems moronic to me.

[tommy]

I think this is a minor example of a much wider social problem, where people are encouraged to think that small and well-intentioned gestures signficiantly address a social problem, thus relieving them of the responsibility to take more burdensome action.

i'll give ya that much.

we'd all be better off if people generally weren't so damned ignorant and lazy.

[=Mark]

whoever thought of this absurd policy should be shot.  the automatic pour/can't offer thing is just ridiculous.  i have *much* less of a problem with marketing (gasp) than i do these tools coming up with ineffective and foolish rules that do more harm to businesses than they do good for the environment.

I think the rules about how restaurants are allowed to serve tap water has more to do with raising the conciousness of the public about the drought situation as opposed to being a significant way of dealing with it.  

What I don't understand is the alternate odd/even rules about lawn watering.  Watering a lawn every other day is still way too much.  If they are serious about restricting water use they should restrict lawn watering to once a week or none at all.

[tommy]

What I don't understand is the alternate odd/even rules about lawn watering.  Watering a lawn every other day is still way too much.  If they are serious about restricting water use they should restrict lawn watering to once a week or none at all.

how could you possibly enforce a once a week rule?

i'd imagine the odd/even system has been set up because

1)  it will, in fact, cut back on watering, since it is enough of an inconvenience that people might skip a day or two that they normally wouldn't

2)  driving past someone's house is all you need to do to know if they are breaking the rule

as far as raising the awareness of the public by not being able to refill water glasses without their expressed written permission, well that notion seems plain silly.

[Ron Johnson]

Can anyone tell me what GT is charging for corkage these days for BYOW?  I have a nice 2002 Aquafina I was going to take to dinner.

[Wilfrid]

What are "lawns"?

[=Mark]

how could you possibly enforce a once a week rule?

Even number addresses on Tuesday, odd number on Thursday.  Impossible?  

as far as raising the awareness of the public by not being able to refill water glasses without their expressed written permission, well that notion seems plain silly.

Nobody said anything about written permission.  If gaining public attention about serious problems is "silly" I suppose any marketing concept should be considered such.

[tommy]

i think one specific day  a week is a bit too restrictive, and the state probably recognizes that.

"written permission" was obviously an exaggeration of fact, and one that doesn't alter the validity of my point.  if you watch TV, read the paper, or have in general have contact with humans, you're aware of the drought.  forbidding servers to refill or ask if you want water under the guise that it will raise awareness is silly.  or rather, believing that it will actually raise awareness is silly.  eh, they're both pretty silly if you ask me.

[jhlurie]

Getting back to restaurant water, I've always wondered why the following isn't done:

Waiter: "Would you like bottled water or tap?"

Customer: "Tap"

Waiter: "Can I bring you a single glass, a half carafe or a full one?"

In my opinion, automatic pouring is wasteful of both labor AND water.  And while unused water in a carafe might seem wasted as well (I don't think that we want them reusing it for other customers) most restaurants have plant life, either inside or outside, which might take some of the wastage... and frankly I personally wouldn't be that squemish if the water was used for boiling (although I wouldn't want it to wind up inside food in any other circumstance).

[Rachel Perlow]

Here's the latest ...

The city now forbids us to offer or bring tap water. We must serve it 'only on request' I may not automatically pour tap water. (Apparently we can get fined) nor may I offer it to you.  This is from the city and, as I understand it, you the guest, must initiate the request.

I'm confused. Are you allowed to refill water glasses once the customer has requested tap water? I feel that any decent restaurant should filter their water if there is any off taste to it (not as much as a problem in NYC as in NJ), and so am perfectly happy drinking tap water.

As someone else mentioned, I like it when a carafe or pitcher of water is placed on the table. Sometimes I'll even suggest it to the server after the second or third refill, especially if the cuisine is spicy.

[tommy]

many times, after asking for my 5th refill, the server will bring a carafe over.  :D

and i now see that rachel just posted about a carafe and a 3rd refill, so it's going to seem like i copped her idea.  ;)

[Wilfrid]

I am going to suggest a separate board for Water, so everyone can discuss how to pour it, whether it should be served from the right side or the left, what the best year is, how much it should cost, whether we're going to run out, the status of restaurant water policies, etc, and then I can avoid getting lured into reading the threads.  I hate water.  

[tommy]

I hate water.  

i've never heard of such a thing.  i *would* literally collapse if i didn't have my several pints of water throughout the day.

[Rachel Perlow]

I hate water.

Wilfrid, do you ever get tired or a headache during the day? Especially on hot days? These are the first symptoms of dehydration and drinking a big glass of cool water is the first thing I do when feeling sluggish or headachey.

[Wilfrid]

I once read that as soon as you feel thirsty, you are already dehydrated.  I conclude that I was born dehydrated.  My burden has always been that, not liking water, I have had to find other ways to quench my thirst.  I feel headachy and sluggish all day, but find that I perk up as soon as I adjust my blood alcohol level early in the evening.  Hey, what time is it?  I'm out of here :) .

[tommy]

c u at jimmy's.  ;)

[yvonne johnson]

I don't mind water, but, right now I'd prefer another kind of drink.

But look at this

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/html/waterrest.html

Now if you scroll down to "Water in restaurants" it says that even under "normal, non-emergency conditions" in NYC, water is served only if the customer requests it.

Apparently we are in Drought Emergency Satge 1 and there is no change from normal restrictions as far as I can see.

[Beachfan]

Those who always order bottled water will pay the usual price, no?

For the most part yes.  However they (me) will feel happier with the reduced price.  

For the most part, wouldn't those who would not buy bottled water still not buy bottled water?  Are you seduced by the marketing?  I don't think so, I think you are just annoyed.

Is it really the situation that you would rather us pay more so you don't feel resentment?

[Ruby]

I like bottled water (one bottle is enough for 2) because I've seen how the tap water looks when it goes through old pipes or if there's construction in the streets - yucky brown! If I'm going to drop a decent amount of cash anyway at a restaurant, then another $5 or $6 isn't such a big deal. What ya gotta watch is how the waiters keep pouring it - they're pushy just like when they keep refilling the vino. This is a business and I guess it's up to the diner to say 'when' enough is enough.

Personally, I put my hand over the wine or water glass when I don't want them to refill it so quickly. Usually a little smile of recognition passes between the waiter/bus server and myself. They know I'm saying 'enough' for now. If you're going to drop anywhere from $50 to $100+ per person for a meal, get a bottle of water and save the New York reservoirs for now. I know it's been said that it takes lots of water to wash water glasses but hopefully the glasses are stockpiled with the dishes.

[tommy]

the NYT's Dining Out section has a little blurb about restaurants lowering their bottled water prices.  the blurb mentions DB bistro moderne, which lowered the price "one whole dollar, to $7".

apparently Lure is giving each table a free bottle of water.  Yvonne, is that OK?  

;)

[jhlurie]

I like bottled water (one bottle is enough for 2) because I've seen how the tap water looks when it goes through old pipes or if there's construction in the streets - yucky brown!

Man are you spoiled, Ruby.  Have you had tap water in other parts of the country? :)

Actually, the worst water I've had locally was at a diner on Staten Island.  Euyuck!  I won't even try to describe it.

[Ruby]

I like bottled water (one bottle is enough for 2) because I've seen how the tap water looks when it goes through old pipes or if there's construction in the streets - yucky brown!

Man are you spoiled, Ruby.  Have you had tap water in other parts of the country? :)

Actually, the worst water I've had locally was at a diner on Staten Island.  Euyuck!  I won't even try to describe it.

Don't know if I'm 'spoiled' or just aware. NYC pipes are ancient even if NY water is supposedly the best in the country. When there's construction in my area, the water really comes out rusty and dirty brown.

I've also seen tap water sitting around for ages in pitchers near restaurant service stations and when it's finally poured, it tastes so stale. I'd rather pay for a bottle that's been capped and hasn't gone through a procession of handling in the restaurant.

I've also noticed that tap water tastes the best in Chinese restaurants because it's served very cold and replenished often.

[yvonne johnson]

Florence Fabricant has it right in NYT Dining section. It's spin.

My thought exactly:  "some restaurateurs have made drinking water seem downright irresponsible".

Now this:

"Off tap? That's right. FYI, Steve Hanson of BR Guest has declared a no tap-water policy for his NYC restaurants -- Atlantic Grill, Blue Fin, Fiamma, Isabella's and Park Avalon. Until the drought is over and the water ban lifted, diners who want H2O can purchase the bottled stuff for half-price. Save water for New York and money for yourself."

http://www.dailycandy.com/candy/article.js...Id=18145&city=1

I guess they use bottled water to clean the Hanson kitchens. And will that be Perrier or Evian to flush the loo?

[tommy]

Now this:

"Off tap? That's right. FYI, Steve Hanson of BR Guest has declared a no tap-water policy for his NYC restaurants -- Atlantic Grill, Blue Fin, Fiamma, Isabella's and Park Avalon. Until the drought is over and the water ban lifted, diners who want H2O can purchase the bottled stuff for half-price. Save water for New York and money for yourself."

http://www.dailycandy.com/candy/article.js...Id=18145&city=1

I guess they use bottled water to clean the Hanson kitchens. And will that be Perrier or Evian to flush the loo?

it's a good thing that i don't go to any of those mediocre restaurants, because if i did, i'd have to stop due to this asinine stance.