Kratiem (with Pictures!)

[Rachel Perlow]

We told them to update their answering machine's outgoing message.

Jay, why do you post pics without comment on the food? Neither of the soups we had today were as good as the Tom Kha Gai we had last week. We also preferred the Tomato Dip from Saturday over the Soybean dip from today, although they are very similar to each other.

The other two dishes were very good, but if that Beef salad was mild (the way I ordered it), ordering it spicy will probably blow the roof off.

Noticed on the menu today that they offer the Spicy Duck Salad as a main dish, over egg noodles -- next time!

[jhlurie]

Okay Jason Rachel is right. You know my standards on Thai Beef Salad. I need to hear a verdict, and frankly your taste in Yum Nuea matches mine more than Rachel's!

[Jason Perlow]

The soups were ok, I was a bit disappointed the Tom Yum only had one shrimp in it. The broth was quite spicy though and the mushrooms in it were good. Rachel's soup was kind of bland. The Tom Kha Gai soup we had on the first meal was very good though, I'd order it again.

I only had a little taste of Rachel's beef salad. I thought it could be spicier, but rachel ordered it very mild.

The dip was interesting, the soybeans imparted a unique flavor to it but I think we liked the other dip better.

My noodles were very good, but they didn't come out spicy enough (read as not spicy at all, which is criminal for Kee Maow noodles) because rachel made her usual protestation about not making her stuff spicy, and thus they assumed I didnt want anything spicy either. Next time they know better. I lectured them sufficiently.

[Jason Perlow]

BTW I spoke to the chef, Alex, and apparently he was the guy who did all the asian-fusion dishes at Baumgarts. He's currently helping out at Kratiem but he's going to be the executive chef at Thai Chef when it opens in 2 weeks or so.

[menton1]

Does the favorable review of this place mean that we can now get in to Saigon without an advance reservation?

[Jason Perlow]

Does the favorable review of this place mean that we can now get in to Saigon without an advance reservation?

Probably not. The food is totally different and attracts a different crowd. Saigon is more casual than Kratiem and has a really loyal following.

Also while I think the food at Kratiem is very good, not all of their dishes are home runs. I really liked the Thai dishes at Kratiem but I am less inclined to think their "fusion" dishes are as successful. Saigon has a much smaller menu and pretty much everything is outstanding. Saigon also only has one chef which has to do everything, whereas Kratiem has more than 1 chef and thus Saigon's output is a lot slower and the tables don't turn as fast. Its also a much smaller restaurant, they can maybe acccomodate 1/4 of the people tops (probably not even) and Joe already told me they are sending their overflow to check out Kratiem because they are still packed at night.

[tommy]

stopped here today for lunch.

the "ravioli" was very good. stuffed wth shrimp and crab. they weren't too doughy, and the stuffing had a very strong, but pleasant, flavor

the duck salad was similar to thai chef's, and was a bit too sweet for my taste. i think wondee still reigns supreme here, with her less sweet and brighter version of this dish.

seared tuna was pretty tasty. sashimi quality tuna, very lightly seared, with two dipping sauces and pickled ginger.

the larb was one of the most perfect larbs i've had. they use lots of ground rice, which i like. it was a moist dish, without being "wet". the balance was as perfect as any version i've had. a home run.

this place is a *lot* cheaper than i expected. most of the above dishes were 6 or 7 bucks (all apps) with the exception of the tuna, which was 9.

the server sure didn't speak english very well, but the service was fine overall. i'm not sure what might happen if the place was hopping and loud, though.

i'm surprised they call this place "asain fusion", and i'm surprised the word "thai" isn't in the name anywhere. it's clearly a heavily thai-influenced restaurant. at least as much as Thai Chef is.

i'll definitely be back. it'll give wondee a run for her money.

[Varmint]

But how were the waitress' shoes, tommy boy?

[tommy]

But how were the waitress' shoes, tommy boy?

HAHA. i admit, the first thing i did was look at the waitresses' shoes. they weren't the same, so i don't know if it was the same one. she was nice, though.

[jhlurie]

i'm surprised they call this place "asain fusion", and i'm surprised the word "thai" isn't in the name anywhere.  it's clearly a heavily thai-influenced restaurant.  at least as much as Thai Chef is.

I thought the same thing. The only dish I had which didn't seem traditionally "thai" was the Northern Tomato Chicken Dip thing. Funny thing is... it was the best thing I had there.

[menton1]

Haven't been to Kratiem yet, but every time I pass the place, even on a weekend evening, they only have one or 2 tables going... atmosphere of the place looks quite spartan, even the chairs look uncomfortable-- wonder if this place will be able to stay--

I have been to the sister restaurant, Thai Chef, around the corner, and it is a beautiful place, lots of glass, plants, and a sleek design with lots of spacing between the tables. I also have had some wonderful dishes at TC even though the service can be variable at times. They do apologize for any mistakes, and do seem to try hard. I wish Thai Chef would open for lunch, though....

[Hank]

We went to this rest. shortly after it opened and 3 months later a second time. Well, the second time was a big mistake and won't be going back. Saigon Republic is a gem and that is where we go, at least 3 times a month. It just gets better and better. And who in the world is a nicer guy than Joe?

[menton1]

After all the fanfare, this place seems to be on its last legs. Every time we drive by the place is empty, or nearly empty. (Dinnertimes) You can see right in because of the large full windows. Frankly, after an umpressive meal here last summer, I am not surprised.

Actually, I thought the place was much less upscale than the impression I got from Jason's review. The sister restaurant, Thai Chef, is quite a bit nicer and more comfortable, and the food is much better there as well.

This place should be doing a lot better, but it is always empty-- and Englewood is a restaurant town.

[Jason Perlow]

Both Kratiem and Thai Chef are having difficulty attracting customers in Englewood. Your guess is as good as mine as to why neither are achieving their potential.

Personally, I don't think Thai Chef should have opened two Thai restaurants in Englewood at the same time, and I think the Thai Chef location by the Shop Rite is a particularly bad one.

[menton1]

Jason it's all your fault! Everytime you rave about a restaurant, it's like a supernova-- it soars up and then fizzles, e.g. Kratiem, and also Felice in Oradell!

[Jason Perlow]

Well, Englewood may be a hot restaurant town, but a lot of restaurants go out of business there as well. You just don't happen to hear about all of those on eGullet, because most of them aren't distinctive in any way. Englewood is also a tough town on locations, parking is extremely scarce and positioning yourself on just the right block or corner is key.

However my two favorite restaurants in Englewood -- Saigon R and Bennies are both quite healthy. So I'm not sure the supernova theory holds water :)

I'm not sure why we haven't been back to Kratiem since our last post about it. I think that while I thought a lot of their dishes were good, it really doesn't best a hardcore Thai restaurant like Wondee's. But that's just MY personal preferences when it comes to Thai food. The food at Kratiem was quite good when we went there, but I have no idea how they have been maintaining their quality. If its still good, I probably should go back.

[menton1]

I think the Thai Chef location by the Shop Rite is a particularly bad one.

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Actually, I disagree. I think the location is quite good. Thousands of people pass by every day that go to the ShopRite, a lot of free advertising that way. Also, a good parking situation. The outdoor platform for dining in good weather is the nicest of any restaurant for miles around. The food is good, the prices moderate, and the decor is beautiful I think TC needs a good PR person-- they should be doing better than they are...

[Jason Perlow]

I don't agree with that at all. Its a horrid location because it is an extremely busy parking lot during the day and evening. The Englewood Shop Rite is one of the busiest supermarkets in the entire area for a number of reasons, because it has a huge Kosher selection and a lot of ethnic goods a lot of other stores don't carry -- and thus it's hard to get parking there for lunch or for dinner because you are competing with the people shopping at Shop Rite and all the other stores in that strip mall. Just trying to shop at Shop Rite during prime hours is a major source of aggravation for me, let alone getting a parking space for Thai Chef. We usually end up at Shop Rite at 10PM when you are guaranteed to get a parking space. Maybe. I've been told by the stockboys in the produce section that the ideal shopping hours are like 2am-4am there.

Yes, the food is pretty good. But I wouldn't say their prices are moderate. Its more expensive than either Saigon Republic or Wondees and most of the other places in town, and I can get better Thai/asian food at either of those two restaurants -- so if you take that into consideration with the parking hassles stated above, its probably why we never end up there.

[menton1]

Yes, the food is pretty good. But I wouldn't say their prices are moderate. Its more expensive than either Saigon Republic or Wondees and most of the other places in town, and I can get better Thai/asian food at either of those two restaurants -- so if you take that into consideration with the parking hassles stated above, its probably why we never end up there.

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Actually, it's apples and oranges comparing it to those places. The food is a unique blend of French/Thai, the dishes are arranged quite beautifully, and the ambience is about 50 times nicer than Saigon or Wondees. In the several times I've eaten there, the average price came to about $35PP including tip; also, that end of the parking lot has always been half-empty at dinnertimes. I look forward to when the alfresco area is open in the warm weather!!

[Jason Perlow]

Actually, if you're going to use that argument, I'd rather end up at Kratiem. The prices are cheaper and the food is almost exactly the same.

[menton1]

Actually, if you're going to use that argument, I'd rather end up at Kratiem. The prices are cheaper.

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Yes, but the food is TOTALLY different at the 2 places. Thai Chef has some French overtones in its food-- also the ambience at TC is about 25 times nicer than Kratiem...

[Jason Perlow]

SOME of the dishes have French overtones in them. The Thai dishes themselves are the same. Thai Chef features their signature dessert, the chocolate souffle, whereas Kratiem does not. I think once you've had the chocolate souffle though, you don't really need to order it again, unless you are absolutely in love with that dessert.

I can't argue with you about the ambiance, but that's not a huge determining factor for me.

[Hank]

The food at Kratiem in my opinion is just passable but the biggest pain is that there is nowhere to hang your coat. In the summer that is not an issue but in the winter with everyone coming in with heavy coats, WOW. Please name me another restaurant that does not have a coat check or at the least hooks where you can hang them yourself. Who designed this space? Not too bright.

[Jason Perlow]

The food at Kratiem  in my opinion  is just passable but the biggest pain is that there is nowhere to hang your coat.  In the summer that is not an issue but in the winter with everyone coming in with heavy coats, WOW. Please name me another restaurant that does not have a coat check or at the least hooks where you can hang them yourself. Who designed this space? Not too bright.

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If the food is just "passable" that means that there's been a visible decline in quality since the place first opened. Since I haven't been back since my last post, and they've gone thru at least one change of chef, its certainly plausible.

I have also heard thru one source that Kratiem may have switched owners recently as well, but I don't have that confirmed.

[tommy]

i've had french food in NYC, CA, chicago, boston, france, and probably a few other places, but i'm still not sure what "french overtones" exist at thai chef to set it apart on that basis, with the exception of the souffle, which may or may not be "french" (sounds french, though). but, i can appreciate their marketing angle, and the chef's background, perhaps, if it happens to be "french", but i don't really buy it. and kratiem seemed to have a similar menu.

have i been missing the foie gras with ginger and scallion on the thai chef menu? perhaps the cassoulet with basil and chili?

as far as the relative success of either of these restaurants, i have to wonder how many thai restaurants, and perhaps even "asian" restaurants, englewood can support? (especially given the thai chef in riverside square, which is probably less than 10 miles from englewood, and certainly closer to a lot of their potential customers as well...and with valet parking) additionally, i suppose englewood is a "restaurant town" by most standards, but englewood's location seems somewhat limiting with regard to how much outside traffic they might receive, especially when compared to montclair and ridgewood. englewood can draw from the north, south, and west, but to the east, well, there just ain't no people. perhaps they're working with a 25% potential-diner deficit right off the bat. a few things to chew on, although the answer might lie with parking lots and whatnot.

or maybe thai chef is just a shell of its former self, and not very exciting or interesting given the other options. i've been saying that for more than half a decade, and i'm starting to think that i'm right.