Royal Navy flagons

[ctgm]

I've been offered a couple of Royal Navy flagons (2 gallons each) 97º, distilled c. 1945 (or it could be 1949)

Does anyone have any information about these and what they are worth? I know that the rum is relatively young and unaged and that it is not that rare, but any info would be appreciated.

[Lee Hester]

I don't have any real information in reply to your query, but I am a bit puzzled. I thought that the standard R.N. rum container in the 20th century was something more like a keg. I've got a couple of flagons from Pusser's that are supposed to be replicas of older containers, but I thought those weren't used into the 20th century. Anybody know about that?

I've got no idea as to worth, but as an R.N. fan I'd sure like to get in on such a deal!

[ctgm]

Waiting to get a picture and once I have one I'll try and post it on the board. All I know is that the flagons are in their original straw baskets (!?).

Being a pedant, I believe that these are property of the Ministry of Defence (rather than being specifically for the Navy) although I am not sure if this makes a difference (expect not).

[mac1105]

A couple of years ago, a small amount of the British Royal Flagons were released to the public. Check out this link. I am not sure that this is the same thing you are talking about

http://www.greatspirits.com/brnir/index.html

[JOHN REEKIE]

CTGM....... I think We will have to wait untill you have more information and photographs. But I dont think you can confuse the Pussers brilliant Advertising as original 'Naval Designs' for containers.... On Ebay I have read of some one who was trying to convince the buying public that the miniture ship decanters or miniture flagons were daily usued to all the sailors.! Can you imagine the millions of small flagons or chip decanters littering the oceans of the world. No it was the rum of the same blend that was used, not the containers. Some Sealed Pussers containers the seller thought the rum was old because the container looked old. Buyer Beware.

There is an other form of Rum container ( that also shows up in the 'Great Spirits' web page Photograph). That is a ironstone pottery flagon ( Glazed on the inside as well as the outside.) that was used in the WWI and WWII marked SRD or S.R.D. Originaly wicker covered as a method of protecting the flagon inside the wrap. But most often rotted away by now. These are often found on Ebay, in UK. but always Dry. So yours could be Great Spirits Falgons. But I have never seen one on this side of the Atlantic.

Various Disagreements as to what it officialy stood for but it could be: "Supply Reserve Depot" or "Special Rations Distribution" alternated by the forces could be "Soon Runs Dry'' or "Service Rum Dilluted" and "Seldom Reaches Destination"

So CTGM keep us informed you have had the suggestions now its up to you and the photographs........Keep serching..... John Reekie

[Lee Hester]

Various Disagreements as to what it officialy stood for but it could be: "Supply Reserve Depot" or "Special Rations Distribution"  alternated by the forces could be "Soon Runs Dry'' or "Service Rum Dilluted" and "Seldom Reaches Destination"

On another thread the SRD dispute seems pretty well solved... Stuart Disbrey stated fairly authoritatively that SRD stood for "Supply Reserve Depot." Another post backed this up with the following arguments:

1) There was never any such liquid as 'Services' rum - all rum consumed by British and Commonwealth forces was, in fact, Navy rum. So, for this explanation to be correct, the acronym would have to be NRD.

2) Rum was not stored in diluted form. Land-based forces generally received their rum ration neat, from the jar. For the Navy, the rum tot was diluted on issue to the individual - not before - in which case it was termed 'grog', that is watered-down neat rum. So again, the explanation of the D standing for 'Diluted' cannot be correct.

3) So-called 'rum jars' were used not only for the storage, transportation and distribution of rum, but also for a number of other liquid commodities including acids, alkalis, oils and even ink. Hence the R in the acronym cannot stand for 'Rum'.

4) The SRD acronym was used on a number of other official British military storage vessels - crates, boxes, etc - with no association with rum or any other liquids, whatsoever.

5) I have seen - and the Imperial War Museum in London has in its collection - sealed rum jars with the words 'Supply Reserve Depot' actually moulded into the official wax seal.

6) I have spoken with a number of former Royal Army Service Corps storesmen with experience going back to World War Two who are unanimous in stating that the SRD acronym stands for Supply Reserve Depot. And they should know!

7) Steve is partly correct in stating that there was not a single Supply Reserve Depot (though during World War One there was - at Deptford, London). By the end of World War Two there were, I believe, five SRDs. Three were in the UK, one was in Germany and one was in the Far East. The Deptford SRD was closed down in 1940 because of fears of Nazi invasion and air raids. The SRDs were pretty much the 'top tier' of the British supply system with a number of 'echelons' of supply bases getting progressively smaller and more local in influence as they neared the front line, from Base Supply Depots downwards. Much of the rum supply for the war in North Africa was, I believe, stored in Tobruk. I have read accounts of the supplies being poured away and/or polluted with petrol and oil to prevent them falling into the hands of the advancing Afrika Korps.

[JOHN REEKIE]

Hello Lee.... there are a few other 'Pussers Rum' containers that I have or are aware of. in the line of Jugs. There is a 1.75 lt jug, a 1lt jug ( which I think is yours) and a .750 lt jug that used to be packaged with a .750 bottle of Pussers rum. This was also sold seperately at some time.

To follow through get hold of a "Wade" pottery collectables catalogue through an antique dealer. There one would find the various resale values of the various jugs, decanters, water jugs etc . also the various Jim bean Collectable special editions of the Jugs and Decanters. .......The Hip Flask has also been utilised with many different custom add on lettering or graphics.(At the time of the second firing) ie Americas Cup...Victory... I have five flasks with different lettering.

Then there is the most wonderfull Irish Cut glass decanter (Waterford maybe). This is of the correct proportions with the base being wider than the height. and is about the size of the pottery decanters. I have only seen this Decanter in The Pussers Store in Tortola BVI, a few years ago . It was quite expensive and as much as the dozen bottles of aged rums that I was bringing home.

Lee......With you Naval knowledge, can you help us with the Question as to which Naval Admiral is know to have invented the 'Ships Decanter" He stated that the proper proportion had to be that the base width had to be wider than the height, to the opening before the stopper. This way the decanter would not tip over in any rough sea. I know it was not Nelson or Vernon, but could it have been Rodney or Bligh. Also what else do you know about "The Ships Decanter."

Rumsearching.....

[JOHN REEKIE]

Lee ....and forum members ....in trying to keep two threads seperate, I sent this under the wrong title,. This should have been with ( British navy) Pussers Rum - Not Royal Navy Flagons.

My appologies.. John rumsearching.

[JOHN REEKIE]

CTGM...... have you bought the ' Flagons' yet. and what was their history.

Rumsearching..

[Ed Hamilton]

There were a number of flagons being sold in the US about ten years ago. The ones I've seen from the Royal Navy were about two gallons and the contents could be seen through the colored glass inside the wicker covering.

The rum wasn't ten years old but what would you expect the Royal Navy to give their sailors?

There is a lot of interest in these flagons and if they are full and sealed the rum will be very much like Great Spirits offerings. They have got the blend closer than anyone else that I've found to date.

[ctgm]

Still waiting for a photo, which I have been told will be arriving "soon" !

By the sounds of it these could be the ones that EH is talking about as they ar the right size and packaging.