Starbuck's

[Lord Michael Lewis]

This has been raised on another thread but it seems contentious enough to merit a thread of it's own.

Were Starbuck's clients sipping unsweetened black espresso coffee I might agree that, indeed, the company were responsible for turning on a nation to the potential delights of the freshly ground bean. However, this is not the case, Starbuck's product is little more than a high calorie and desperately unhealthy caffieneated milkshake.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I can't figure out if you are criticizing the coffee or the people who drink it. Or both?

[Adam Balic]

I don't really like their products either (especially, the naming system for the different sizes of coffee cups), however, for many people I have spoken to in Edinburgh it would seem that Starbucks did represent an introduction to coffee-other-then-instant. There tastes in coffee have changed dramatically. Several years ago one person would drive into the centre of town to pick up peoples orders of lunchtime coffee. Now these same people have bought a bean grinder and expresso maker and order in their own blends of beans and discuss why they cannot get a decent mousse like in Italy. I cannot be entirely sure, but this would seem a likely history in many British cities that have hitherto lacked an extant coffee drinking culture.

As I said before Starbucks is the Jamie Oliver of Coffee suppliers.

[Kikujiro]

I get a bit bored of Starbucks bashing. Sure, the espresso is dishwater compared to the good stuff that we (all?) cherish. But compared to the average espresso or cappuccino in the average or even above-average British café, it's practically ambrosia.

Therefore, stick me anywhere in the country that I'm not very familiar with, and even many places that I am, and I look for the nearest Starbucks.

[Kikujiro]

Were Starbuck's clients sipping unsweetened black espresso coffee I might agree that, indeed, the company were responsible for turning on a nation to the potential delights of the freshly ground bean. However, this is not the case, Starbuck's product is little more than a high calorie and desperately unhealthy caffieneated milkshake.

I don't get this. Yes, they have a whole range of weird syntho-coffee-beverages. But they'll happily serve espresso, macchiato, etc. And as far as I can see 'normal' coffee variants are by far the most popular.

[mogsob]

I just love going into Starbucks and asking for a large coffee. Good times indeed.

[Steve Plotnicki]

For a mass merchant, I think they set a pretty good standard.

[Miss J]

1995: I arrived in London, and discovered that when you asked for coffee in a typical restaurant (ie not in a temple of gastronomy), there was a very good chance you'd be offered Gold Blend. If they really cared, they'd make it with hot milk instead of water. (I distinctly remember reading an approving comment in Time Out about a cafe that did that.)

Apart from Bar Italia, there was very little effort to produce decent coffee. And if you want to talk about dishwater, the cappuccinos I had in "posh" London cafes in the pre-Starbucks days epitomised it.

After a while, the Seattle Coffee Company (a clear attempt to launch the Starbucks concept in the UK) started up, and then suddenly there was Costa Coffee as well. Notably, the coffee was still incredibly milky and weak. (Especially at Costa.) Then Starbucks rolled in and bought up Seattle Coffee Company. And - as difficult as it may be to believe - the standard of coffee in London did rise. (Granted, it didn't have to do much to improve, but that's beside the point.)

It's pretty amazing how much the coffee scene has changed here over the past eight years.

(Granted, eight years ago you could rent a flat in Swiss Cottage for £120pw, too. What price a cup of decent coffee?)

[Holly Moore]

I am curious. Is there a British equivalent (a national or empire-wide chain) to Starbuck's for tea? Should there be?

[Kikujiro]

I am curious.  Is there a British equivalent (a national or empire-wide chain) to Starbuck's for tea?  Should there be?

No. No.

[SamanthaF]

Therefore, stick me anywhere in the country that I'm not very familiar with, and even many places that I am, and I look for the nearest Starbucks.

Me too

I like comparing the prices.

[Lord Michael Lewis]

It's pretty amazing how much the coffee scene has changed here over the past eight years. 

Yes, now we have people drinking it as they walk along the road, a definite improvement; so New York.

[Kikujiro]

Starbucks does better coffee than the Fat Duck

ps. will a mod please remove Michael's erroneous apostrophe from the thread title? thanks

Edited February 14, 2003 by Andy Lynes (log)

[Lord Michael Lewis]

Starbucks does better coffee that the Fat Duck 

ps. will a mod please remove Michael's erroneous apostrophe from the thread title? thanks

What is with you; are a shop designer or something, why must the genetive apostrophe always be left out of shop names?

It makes my blood boil!

Edited February 13, 2003 by Lord Michael Lewis (log)

[Kikujiro]

What is with you; are a shop designer or something, why must the genetive apostrophe always be left out of shop names?

I assume you mean the genitive apostrophe, although 'possessive' is the usual term.

How about: because it's not in the name of the store?

[g.johnson]

Smug Classicist Bastard.

[Kikujiro]

Smug Classicist Bastard.

Just because you didn't understand Dancer in the Dark there's no need to get petty

[Miss J]

Fun Fact about British Coffee:

I know someone who helped launch instant coffee in the UK. He says that the reason why companies decided to focus on instant coffee instead of filter coffee to begin with was because consumer research suggested that Britons were much more comfortable pouring boiling water over coffee granules than going through all the faff of learning how to brew coffee. It was - you guessed it - more like making tea.

Well, it was a very long time ago.

[Charlene Leonard]

what about those granules you can buy which turn into 'tea'? yuck.

[kitwilliams]

Here at home (Southern California), I wouldn't be caught dead in a Starbucks. Better coffee is to be had around every corner (literally).

I lived in Kensington for six months in 1994. BS (Before Starbucks). I think it was on a return trip in December of 1998 ('97?) that a Starbucks appeared on Gloucester Road and there were three or four additional locations around London. Fine, no big deal. But when I returned exactly one year later, there were over 80 Starbucks around the city. THAT is what I dislike about them. They are the George W. Bush of the coffee world. They have to have a presence EVERYWHERE! The most blatant example is (perhaps was?) that little pedestrian street in Mayfair (I believe one end of it is at Berkeley Street) which runs for a very short block, and there is a Starbucks at either end. Disgusting display of capitalism run amok.

I agree that Starbucks has enhanced the availability of, I hate to use the word, decent coffee in London. But personally, I will go out of my way to Monmouth Coffee Co. every time.

[Kikujiro]

I understand there's one in Beijing inside the Forbidden City. Can anyone confirm?

kit: yeah, so will I, but there aren't 80 (or however many hundred now) Monmouths.

edit: Yep.

Edited February 13, 2003 by Kikujiro (log)

[kitwilliams]

kit: yeah, so will I, but there aren't 80 (or however many hundred now) Monmouths.

Thank goodness, kikujiro! Quality over quantity every time!

[Miss J]

But personally, I will go out of my way to Monmouth Coffee Co. every time.

I don't believe that was ever in dispute.

[g.johnson]

Smug Classicist Bastard.

Just because you didn't understand Dancer in the Dark there's no need to get petty

I think I understood that executing the innocent was wrong before seeing Mr. Von Trier's hysteriafest.

[joler]

I am curious.  Is there a British equivalent (a national or empire-wide chain) to Starbuck's for tea?  Should there be?

There is a Starbucks "tea equivalent" franchise just beginning to grow here in the Southeastern US. Teavana. I was at their shop in Atlanta, I have to say, I am as hooked on their product as any Starbucks junkie. Check out their website at www.teavana.com. I highly recommend a blend of half Mate Carnival and Half Rooibos Chai.

As for Starbucks, I'm happy to hear they bought Seattle Coffee, I think the Starbucks coffee is a much better product. I try not to frequent Starbucks mainly because their pricing strategy irritates me.