Pipli?

[Adam Balic]

I am trying to make a collection of spices etc. that would have been used historically in European cooking. I have just found out that one of these spices "long pepper", while un-known in Europe for hundreds of years, is still used in some Indian cooking. In hindi it is known as "Pipli".

Would there be any chance of getting this spice in the UK (from an Indian food store) or via the web do you think?

[anil]

You mean

This ? I'm sure a place in Curry Hill would carry it :)

Edited January 28, 2003 by anil (log)

[Simon Majumdar]

Pipli

Gawd, we used to be given this stuff if we had the runs. Why on earth would you want to use it in cooking?

S

[Adam Balic]

Yes that is the stuff, except I want entire fruiting bodies, not powder.

Simon - really? How odd. I am interested in it as it combines hotness and sweet spice flavour, which I think would be interesting. And I want to recreate some pre-1600 recipes.

Its use in Europe was dropped after the introduction of the New world pepper (chilli), as this supplied heat in a meal, but could be grown locally. It doesn't tast the same though.

[Simon Majumdar]

It is a traditional Ayurvedic remedy for all sorts of things

Here is a link

http://www.herbalremedies.com/pipli50caps.html

S

[Adam Balic]

Ah, I see. Based on some type of sympathatic magic idea no doubt. Eg. The cure for something going through you like a dose of salts is obviously going to be pepper in'it?

[Adam Balic]

Only UK supplier I have been able to find is a Black Magic supply place. Surely, there are other sources in the UK?

[Kikujiro]

Adam, what are you planning to do with it?

[Vanessa]

Can't help you on finding Long Pepper Adam, other than suggesting you scour the Indian areas of large cities in the UK. But I am interested to know what other spices form part of this 'collection' of yours?

v

[Simon Majumdar]

Hey. I can see the headlines

"Vanessa, not dead through cocktail and BBQ combo poisoning, shock"

Welcome back V

Glad to see you are still alive

S

[Adam Balic]

Kikujiro - why cook with it, what else? The allow me to create recipes that have a historical spin and have interesting flavours. Last thing I cooked was Wild Scottish salmon with a sweet butter and barberry sauce. Was tasty and pretty and I always like that.

Vanessa - Most things are avalible, as they are still in use. Others require searching Asian food stores (eg. 'Barberries', still used in Iranian cooking, 'galingale' used in Thai cooking). Others have to be ordered (like 'Grains of Paradise' and 'Cubeb' (tailed pepper). I could have bought Ambergris and Civet Musk in Morocco, but my damn ethics stood in the way.

[Vanessa]

Simon - I'm still hanging in there - just. I was away for a few days. Have some very good pictures (I think) but haven't got around to loading them onto the computer.

Adam - I was interested to know what the spices were, rather than their availability. There is a company called Seasoned Pioneers (I'm sure you know about them) who sell some quite unusual stuff. Would also be interested in your narrative of using them - please keep us posted. I have Grains of Paradise that I bought somewhere in France ages ago.

v

[trillium]

You can buy grains of paradise at most shops catering to homebrewers (and wormwood and other old herbs/seasonings).

regards,

trillium

[Adam Balic]

Adam - I was interested to know what the spices were, rather than their availability.  There is a company called Seasoned Pioneers (I'm sure you know about them) who sell some quite unusual stuff.  Would also be interested in your narrative of using them - please keep us posted.  I have Grains of Paradise that I bought somewhere in France ages ago.

v

Blast, I thought that was a list.

OK then:

Ye Olde List O' Spice

Pepper (Black [several types])

Salt (ditto)

Cloves

Coriander

Caraway

Cinnamon

Nutmeg

Bay leaves

Mace

Aniseed

Fennel

Saffron

Grains of Paradise

Cubeb (tailed pepper)

Liquorice root

Sumac

Seville Orange (either frozen whole for juice or as dried rind)

Rose water

Orange water

Barberries

Capers

Almonds (sweet and bitter if I can get them)

Sugar (various)

This covers most British recipes I have from the 13th - 18th C.

To this list I add:

Cummin (various)

Allspice

Chilli Peppers (No authentic, but without Long pepper it is my only choice).

Dried Limes (I just like the flavour)

What is missing from the list is Long pepper, civet musk, ambergris, and various aromatic gums (think of the three kings).

I'm sure there are other spices that are used that I haven't identified.

edit: Forgot Galingale.

Edited January 29, 2003 by Adam Balic (log)

[Suvir Saran]

I had bought some pipli in Paris. We were waking on Rue St. Andres des Arts and a street vendor was selling spices. He had pipli. In fact I had bought them two years ago, I think I have them sealed in the bag I carried them in from Paris to NYC somewhere in my kitchen in NYC.

[Kikujiro]

Ah, but what kind/s of cinnamon?

[Adam Balic]

Ah, but what kind/s of cinnamon?

Both Cinnamomum zeylanicum and Cinnamomum cassia were used historically (both mentioned by Gallius). I prefer Cinnamomum zeylanicum (much easier to grind, nicer flavour), so I use that.

My sources don't say where there cinnamon was obtained from, so I just use what I can get.

[Kikujiro]

Okay, 'cos this is confusing me. I have some Seychelles cinnamon which are those standard sticks that are cassia, right? But I also have big bits of cinnamon bark. However, the bark is Lebanese (I've also found it sourced from China) and my understanding is that China at least and probably the ME grows cassia, not 'proper' cinnamon, which I presume to be your zeylanicum and is native to Sri Lanka, yes? On the other hand, my Big Bits o' Bark look nothing like my light-brown Sticks o' Cassia. How do I know which they are, and if they're cassia, where do I get the other stuff?

ps. I think we want regular posts on your weird Historico-Cooking. Have you considered proposing a series to the BBC? The Elizabethan Kitchen or something?

Edited January 29, 2003 by Kikujiro (log)

[Kikujiro]

Even more confused now. There are at least two more varieties of cinnamon than I realised.

[Kikujiro]

This is good.

[Adam Balic]

OK, in medieval - Roman cooking it was the cassia or cinnamon buds, not bark that were mostly used. If the bark (actually the inner bark) was used it was refered to as 'canel', which comes from the same root word as canal etc (eg. 'tube').

True cinnomon is much thinner then cassia, is a roll, rather then a scroll in cross section, is a light brown colour and isn't as harsh in flavour.

I will do some Historicooking at the end of Feb. when I get payed. Choose your period.

[Adam Balic]

Even more confused now. There are at least two more varieties of cinnamon than I realised.

Yes there is also a Cinnamomum alba as well. I use Vietnamese cinnamom for making Pho. It looks like bark, not rolled at all.

[Gavin Jones]

I will do some Historicooking at the end of Feb. when I get payed. Choose your period.

My nominations are

1. 13thC for Pre-Black Death serf-farmed spicebox luxuria

and

2.16thC for the impact of civil war, hundreds of years of fighting the French and a decisive break from Rome.

My nominations: Tonyfinch to play Henry VIII

Simon M Cardinal Wolsey

Adam Francis Bacon

Vanessa Bloody Mary

MissJ Elizabeth I

Kikujiro Erasmus

[Adam Balic]

I will do some Historicooking at the end of Feb. when I get payed. Choose your period.

My nominations are

1. 13thC for Pre-Black Death serf-farmed spicebox luxuria

and

2.16thC for the impact of civil war, hundreds of years of fighting the French and a decisive break from Rome.

My nominations: Tonyfinch to play Henry VIII

Simon M Cardinal Wolsey

Adam Francis Bacon

Vanessa Bloody Mary

MissJ Elizabeth I

Kikujiro Erasmus

You forgot:

Gavin Sir Francis Drake.

Bet you would enjoy dressing up as a pirate, almost as much as Simon would dressing up as a Cardinal.

[Kikujiro]

Adam, I hope you're cooking for us. Especially if Gavin is dragging up as Drake.