Liverpool

[rcianci]

1- Did Matin Picard become legendary after Bourdain acclaimed him and made him part of the 50 best chef's in the world or was he just forgotten in Montreal prior to that. I believe many people revisited their opinions on APDC when Mr. Bourdain gave him the blessing of all blessings.

I actually fell in love with Au Pied de Cochon about two years before Mr. Bourdain ate there, though it was no surprise to me that he would like it.

[Culatello]

I'm pretty imbaressed and Kinda offended about some these statements .

1st as a Professional that studied in a culinary school

2nd as someone who went to Italy and worked in kitchens to better myself and to see first hand how true italian cuisine is made and refine my culinary techniques.

( Based My life and Career on those experiances )

3rd Being an italian chef who's first insperation at the age of 4 was his grandmother (The best Cavatelli still to this day) I can't do them that good.

The other day my husband cracked out the Babbo cookbook and made the recipe for gnocchi

As a person who went to culinary school,what you are trying to say here is that all these kid's in school could stay home and just read books & watch t.v cause that's how they are going to learn good techniques.

I gotta say, these were some pretty damn good gnocchi. Is he not allowed to make good gnocchi because he's French and he only made them once? Hell no!

No . he is allowed to make them good ,but don't say that they were better than some-one who has been doing them for years , even you know that Lesley. PLEASE!!!! You know we gotta do alot of gnocchi's before they start coming DAM GOOD GNOCCHI'S

Are an Italian grandmother's gnocchi automatically good because she's been making them for years? Hell no!

Do you know how many foie gras's au torchon I've scraped in my pasted and I'm not ashamed to say it , it's only a few years now that I feel comfortable to say That I do a decent Foie gras au torchon (Was thought by a French chef and love him to death ) but to do good foie gras I had to go and learn first hand by someone who was raised in that culture.

Good food is good food

I agree but it does take time before someone does it right.

I've had some pretty awful Italian food made by Italian grandmothers

Listen , I'm not saying every grandmother is a great cook , you gotta try my grandmothers coquille St.jaques it's ediable but when thay do something that thay've been doing from the age of 12 during a WORLD WAR , but i digress

Does one have to earn the right to cook outside one's realm?

Hell ya !!! Go work under Massimillano alajamo or Ganfranco Vissani , Nadia Santini, Pierangelini and company

Or for a french chef , Pierre Gangier, Joel Robluchon, Alain Ducasse, Les feres Purcell ,

Or for a pastry chef , Go to Thuries, Oriol Balanger, Jaques Torres, or Sam Mason

Just like Marc Lander and Daivd Pasternac from Del posto and Esca they studied in Italy or under some one who did.2 of the best Italian resturants in NYC.great expiriance

Batali's kitchen leaders

Anyway's maybe I took this to heart I'm probably over reacting. or not

[Lesley C]

The point here is that the guys at Liverpool are indeed chefs. Chefs should be able to mix it up. You're Italian, right? So it's pretty rich you saying these guys can't do Italian but it's ok for you to cook French. You can't have it both ways.

When I worked as a pastry chef, a French pastry chef (and BTW, I worked for Thuries), if someone handed me a recipe for cassata or cannoli, I'll tell ya, I probably did a better job of it than a lot of pastry shops in St-Leonard.

A good recipe goes a long way in skilled hands.

[Lesley C]

That said, I would be a bit weary of European-trained chefs straying into something radically different like Indian, Chinese or sushi -- though Junichi Ikematsu of Jun-i did just that as his training is French. At least it is part of his palate, his culture.

[Culatello]

Lesley I'm very diassapointed in your reply , thought you would understand my POINT.

Lesley Your putting words in my mouth i Never said that a trained person can't do Italian.

I posted Marc Lander and David Pasternac Both Non Italian's that trained under Italian chef's and that are very good Italain chef's .

As for me I was trained first in Classic french cusine YOU KNOW THAT. and a little bit of Basic Pastry buy someone who went to Thuries that for me is what motivated me to get a decent education in Italain Cuisine , and the person that inspiered me to go to Italy to go get an experiance is WRONG. your not making sense.

Another thing is that I'm not saying anything about the Liver pool Guy's I didn't mention there names once in my post .

I'm simply replying to your post that anyone can become an Italian chef by openinig a BABBO cookbook Presto instant Italian Chef.

Forget about all the hard work , hour's ,fights with my girl freind's ,split shift's , cut fingers, burnt fingers ,scrubbing down kitchens till 2:00 in the morning while my friend's where in the front drinking and flirting with girl's, owners and chef's screaming stress i went through to get to a point that .

I should of opened a cookbook. would of made my life easier.

I also never said that you got to come from St.Leonard or Italy to be a great chef

God now's there are some bad italian cook's out there just as there are bad french cook's ,i've seen it first hand.

if someone handed me a recipe for cassata or cannoli, I'll tell ya, I probably did a better job of it than a lot of pastry shops in St-Leonard.

And as for the cannoli's, The day you bring me a cannoli better than Alati St.leonard I"LL shut my mouth. 30 years of making cannoli's those guy's and you give them a slap in the face like that. Not even in Italy they do Cannoli's like that TAKE IT from Me.every time i go to italy i compare it to Alati and if it makes you feel better the owners are not Sicilan at alati.

Pretty insulting to here thing's like that.

Would you like that challenge I'll give you a Classic Recipe for Sfogliatelle I wanna see you do it. PLEASE cause i gave it to a couple Incliened french chef's they couldn't pull it off.

A good recipe goes a long way in skilled hands.

Here I agree , but for me you gotta do it over & over & over again to Master something. Hence (the Grandmother doing Cavatelli from the age of 12)71 years old now do the math.

The same as in Hockey, Guitar, figure Skating, golf , Painting , sculpting , snowboarding.

That said, I would be a bit weary of European-trained chefs straying into something radically different like Indian, Chinese or sushi -- though Junichi Ikematsu of Jun-i did just that as his training is French. At least it is part of his palate, his culture.

Are you contridicting yourself , why did Juni go all the way to france he should of just opened a Book of Alain Ducasse

Edited December 12, 2007 by Culatello (log)

[maxanon]

This is the second post I see that veers off the resto topic and focusses on the person behind the scenes. Liverpool house is a very good restaurant. Is it an excellent italian restaurant? That's arguable. I see it more as an "Italian" cousin of Rosalie. A pop-resto.

My mother always give my recipe book collection a withering gaze. She always says to learn from a great chef and practice. When I want to learn from a cookbook prof, I watch the food network. If you don't know how its supposed to taste like, or why you're adding those ingredients, it defies the purpose of cooking. That's her opinion.

Being married make me great at following orders. Also, it becomes a mindless task that gets dinner quicker to the table.

I guess the distinction is based on expectations. When I go to Morton's in DC, I expect a great steak. I mean, a perfect steak. Anything less leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. However, when my neighbour has me over for a bbq, he can make a great steak. Its not a Morton's steak, but is an excellent steak. The difference is in the expectations. I expect something different from a 10$ bottle of wine vs a 200$ bottle.

So, the question is, how do we rate food when our expectations change based upon our knowledge. Is it great Italian for a non-Italian head chef, or is it just great Italian? If one sees Ikematsu-san making French food and you don't know who he is, one might think his off dish is great French food (for a Japanese).

But that's another topic.

[gruyere]

I have thought about entering this discussion for some time. However, I felt that I should eat at Liverpool House before doing so. I have enjoyed many great meals at Joe Beef and was anxious to try LH but on the two previous occasions when I tried to make a rez, I was too late and the place was full. Last Thursday was my first meal there.

I don’t agree with many of the points made in this discussion. Firstly, who deemed Liverpool House an Italian Restaurant? Dishes that may support such a theory include gnocchi as a starter and a lobster/pasta dish and risotto on the mains. A lobster/pasta dish has been on the Joe Beef menu for as long as I can remember, risotto is on many non-Italian restaurant menus and for my money I’ll take Claude Pelletier’s version over those of most of our Italian restaurants. Thursday, I perused a starter menu with a beet salad, Boston lettuce salad, charcuterie plate, smoked salmon, foie gras and I’m forgetting others, to go along with the sole Italian entry, the gnocchi. Mains included braised beef, Canard de Peking (Oh my god, are they going Chinese next time??), two steak options, liver and onions and a salmon and chicken dish that were decidedly non-Italian. Frankly, given all the discussion, I was surprised by the degree to which LH is similar to JB.

One of the greatest gifts that a nation can give to the world is to share its cuisine. No nation has done a better job than Italy….. what a blessing and hats off to those who do it well. The dishes of Italian influence at Liverpool House are very well done (our table of five included a lobster/pasta dish and rabbit risotto) but these menu items are dwarfed in numbers by other dishes. Anyone heading to Liverpool House in search of an extensive Italian menu would be quite disappointed. However, they are highly unlikely to be disappointed if they are seeking great food in a lively, convivial atmosphere.

This team of Montrealers has a great business model going. Who would have thought that you could open a restaurant (JB) in this area of town, spend minimally on décor in a way that redefines the term 'shabby chic' and draw full-house crowds based on great food and an atmosphere that is created as much by the patrons as by the operators and then on top of that add another popular venue virtually next door, creating your own competition before someone else does. I don’t know if that was the well thought out strategy, but it sure looks like a good one.

It seems somehow out of order that some people are so focused on the negative. I travel a lot and I believe Montrealers are well informed, knowledgeable restaurant goers; certainly more so than the average North American. We walked by JB at about 7:45 and later at 10:45. It was full and almost full at the two respective times. LH was almost full when we arrived and full by about 8:15. I don’t believe customers are flocking to this somewhat obscure part of the city to simply receive a warm welcome from David M. and company. Lesley C’s review of LH was positive and this can cause a 'blip' in business for a period of time, but it was busy before the review and I suspect it will be busy long after.

What is it that causes locals to disproportionately heap criticism on local enterprises that do well? This phenomenon is not unique to Montreal, although it does, in my experience, tend to be more prevalent in smaller towns. Is it possible that there is some jealousy going on here? Is it possible that the restaurant business model that dictates huge reno budgets in the high rent part of town, to go with long legs and ample boobs, cannot fathom that such a simple strategy based on great food and fun can really be a more successful formula; not that the two are mutually exclusive in any way. For the record I am a great fan of Cavalli and its ‘scene’ of great food and ‘beautiful people’ in a fun, well designed space.

BTW, having prepared this reply on Friday, I was feeling rather like it was time for a good old Italian meal. On the recommendation of a friend we ended up at da Emma. I hadn’t been there in years. What a pleasant surprise – great service, great food, just the way momma used to make it!!

[stoked]

Tried to book a table for 7 at PDC but they didn't have space so they referred us to LV. We started with a few plates of the Tripe and a Charcuterie plate. Both very good, Tripe reminded me of the Tripe burger I had in Florence. Throughout the table, several of us had the duck confit, halibut, salmon, deer(myself), and fried livers. My deer was very enjoyable, and all other dishes had positive remarks from my company. Highlight of the table was probably the salmon. It was perfectly cooked, moist and very flavourful. My friend claimed it was one of, if not the best salmon he's had (and he's had quite a few). Coming from the west coast, we were definitely surprised. Sorry for the brief comments, weekend was a blur as it was for a bachelor party. I did manage to hit PDC without the big group, and the following night after Liverpool we had a final Montreal dinner at Le Club Chasse et Peche.