Fiamma

[Nathan]

except that he gave Fiamma three stars.

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Oh, true enough; he has to give three or four stars to somebody. But usually it's because they have managed to overcome his aversion to a set of traits that he invariably calls "fussy". It is always a drawback to him.

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I agree that it usually is...but not always. see the Del Posto review:

http://events.nytimes.com/2006/03/01/dinin...ews/01rest.html

(of course, now you can make the case that he thinks fussiness is fine with Italian or pseudo-Italian but not with French....)

Edited January 3, 2008 by Nathan (log)

[BryanZ]

In the wake of the NYT review, Fiamma has in fact increased its prices by about 12.5% based on the tasting menu ($120 to $135). This is now the most expensive Italian restaurant in the city, correct? Am going tomorrow. Will report back.

[Nathan]

well, Del Posto's tasting menu is $150. but you can eat at Del Posto ala carte.

[oakapple]

except that he gave Fiamma three stars.

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Oh, true enough; he has to give three or four stars to somebody. But usually it's because they have managed to overcome his aversion to a set of traits that he invariably calls "fussy". It is always a drawback to him.

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I agree that it usually is...but not always. see the Del Posto review:

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This isn't the Del Posto thread, but I think that review amply supports my point. The traditional trappings of a luxury restuarant are never appreciated or desirable to Frank. They are inconveniences, distractions, and needless "fussiness" that he will tolerate if the food is good enough.

[Nathan]

no, I think he likes the formality in that context. he's defending it.

[oakapple]

no, I think he likes the formality in that context.  he's defending it.

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I have not found any use of the word "fussy" by him — and he uses it a lot — in which it sounded like an attractive attribute. For instance, in the Del Post review, "The ceremony surrounding main courses can indeed be fussy...." It is willfully ignoring the context to suggest that Bruni is at all pleased by this. The clear implication, I think, is that the restaurant succeeds despite these distractions, which he finds utterly unhelpful.

[Nathan]

"They have crumpled up page after page of the script that made their previous ventures so beloved and written a new libretto, emphasizing refined notes over rustic ones, sacrificing hip on the altar of elegant. Spacious and tranquil, with a piano player in place of a rock soundtrack, Del Posto is the anti-Babbo, the un-Lupa....................................... the two men have challenged New Yorkers to accept Italian cuisine presented with fastidious rituals and opulent trappings usually reserved for French fare.................................................Their reward? I hear a lot of grousing that Del Posto feels soulless and spurious, that it's the culinary equivalent of an epic Hollywood folly: Dishtar. The naysaying makes me wonder whether many New Yorkers are as open to new experiences as they like to think. Del Posto dares to speak in an unfamiliar idiom, only to be told it has a phony accent. That's a parochial response, and a largely unjust one......................................Del Posto, which means "of the place," has ample ethnic grounding in Italy's fancier restaurants..........................................But the central vision and ambition of Del Posto are valid ones. Why shouldn't an Italian meal be bracketed by a breadbasket as bountiful as Del Posto's and a plethora of complimentary cookies? ........................................Valet parking may seem molto suburban, but I suppose it's a welcome convenience for diners with cars. And while the vastness of the space, a whopping 24,000 square feet over several levels, brings to mind a hotel lobby, it's one swanky lobby. It also affords real room to maneuver between tables, enough quiet to facilitate conversation............................"

He simply doesn't see all of the above trappings as a negative.

Edited January 3, 2008 by Nathan (log)

[oakapple]

He simply doesn't see all of the above trappings as a negative.

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He isn't entirely allergic to good service—otherwise, Momofuku Ssam Bar would have three stars. But he doesn't like things that he finds "fussy" (or other synonyms that he routinely uses), which most normal people would associate with traditional luxury service at places like Fiamma and Del Posto.

[BryanZ]

Fiamma is a funny restaurant. Looking in from Spring St. into the red-hued dining room it's a picture of downtown NYC elegance. We thoroughly enjoyed our meal here but were at times more amused than outright floored with the deliciousness of the food.

Never saw the upstairs, but the downstairs dining room is sufficiently chic. With only one captain working this entire space, however, service got off to a bit of a slow start. Later in the evening, they brought in a dedicated wine steward, giving our captain a bit more time to see to her numerous tables, but by this time we had built a rapport with our back waiter instead. While not quite fawned over, this was fine for us, though we saw and experienced numerous "flybys" with trays of food. Runners would bring out dishes, stop a few feet away, waiting awkwardly for the captain or backwaiter, then returning to the kitchen, then standing in kitchen corridor (sometimes with different dishes), conferring amongst themselves. It was funny, but they're not quite seamless.

On this evening, the five-course tasting menu was $110 dollars, with dishes clearly listed. The seven-course menu stood at $125 (down $10 from what I was told the day before on the phone), but with no dishes listed. When we asked our captain what dishes the seven-course menu included, she informed us it would be the five-course meal with a cheese course and extra dessert. For $15, why not, so I ordered this while my two companions ordered the five-course option.

When we asked whether we all had to order the same number of courses (before deciding on one option) we got an "Oh no, you can do whatever you like!" When I asked about substituting in the oft lauded carpaccio for what I thought was going to be the burrata listed on the five-course meal, we were told this wouldn't be a problem. One of my party preferred a non-chocolate dessert; "Sure I'll bring out dessert menus at the end!" was the response we received.

Fiamma clearly has no problem accommodating all sorts of requests. The way our captain handled it all was so nonchalant--she didn't even check with the kitchen--I wondered what the cooks and chef in the back would think.

Anyway, it turned out my seven-course meal would in no way resemble the five-course meal. Not a single course. Instead, I received an extra antipasto and a somewhat perfunctory slice of robiola with quince and jelly. The difference between the five- and seven-course meals was a source of great amusement as we would ask our backwaiter what I would be receiving between courses. He played along and it was all a big surprise. For some people, this gross misinformation by our captain could've been a problem. We, however, were more than happy to try different items. We probably could've asked for another on-the-fly meal and our captain probably would've conceded with a cheery, "Sure!" If I sound somewhat snide as I write this, please don't take it that way. The whole service experience was just a bit peculiar, not in a bad way.

Random aside about bread service before getting into the food, but tables were not receiving the Manni oil that stood on the service station in our corner of the room. We asked, innocently enough, and they gladly conceded. My obsession with Manni has been documented on numerous occasions, so we were amused to find that the stopper on each bottle required much shaking by the staff to extract even a small squirt of oil. Is this BR Guest trying to control costs while still offering luxury? I'm not sure, but we asked for a refill that was quickly granted.

The food itself struck me as often times very tasty, but somewhat contrived. I hate to echo Bruni, but this was almost like Italian flavors with a French approach. This wasn't so much a problem, but I felt a certain disconnect between the flavors in the my mouth and the preparations and textures I saw on my plate. Sometimes we'd see Italian preparations--ravioli--with a French flavor profile--foie gras, chesnut--and vice versa. I'm not the hugest fan of the rusticity of Italian cuisine and almost feel like the kitchen was trying to be Italian or inject some kind of Italian-ness in every dish. Something just didn't quite click all the time.

This is definitely a three-star restaurant, but comparisons to Insieme and Anthos kept coming to mind. I think the food at Insieme may actually be tastier, even if it's not as refined and its trappings are significantly less attractive. The Anthos comparison also seems apt to me, as I perhaps feel that Chef Psilakis is offering a more soulful backing to a rustic cuisine turned haute. Fiamma is probably a better restaurant overall than each of these, but I'm not sure which meals were more enjoyable for me.

I'd definitely go back; the meal was very good and certain courses were excellent, it just didn't awaken or help me discover a passion for Italian cuisine as I hoped it might.

Edited January 5, 2008 by BryanZ (log)

[MikeTMD]

I recently prepared a dish inspired by Fiamma:

Tortellini with Cotechino Sausage and Porcini Mushrooms

Has anyone had that dish @ Fiamma? How is it different from the one on the pic?

Edited April 7, 2008 by MikeTMD (log)

[BryanZ]

Closed. Damn. I quite enjoyed my meal here.

[Bobster]

Damn indeed, I wanted to go back myself in February.

[oakapple]

This is the first "recession-related" closure that I'm truly sad about. All the others I've seen have either been neighborhood places, or restaurants that simply weren't that great.

The other interesting thing is that Fiamma is part of a large conglomerate, and was arguably its flagship. If Hanson has a better or more acclaimed restaurant, I'm not aware of it. For reasons of pride and prestige, if nothing else, you'd think he at least considered propping it up for a while, with revenues from his other places.

You can imagine what the prognosis would be for independent restaurants—those with no corporate structure to fall back on.

[docsconz]

This is big and very sad news. I have no doubt that Fabio Trabocchi will land on his feet. The question is where and when and doing what.

[docsconz]

I posted a short eulogy for this restaurant along with an excerpt from an interview I did with Chef Trabocchi at Starchefs onmy blog..

[ulterior epicure]

I'm sure you've all visited the website by now. For those who haven't, here is what is posted:

Dear Valued Guests,

Fiamma is closed for business, but is available as a private event space. Please contact our special events office at 212-331-0328 for further information.

Thank you for your patronage.

I can't imagine Trabocchi would stick around to do private parties. Or, would he? Either way, I'm sure I'll never find out what that would mean.

[AEK]

I'm sure you've all visited the website by now.  For those who haven't, here is what is posted:

Dear Valued Guests,

Fiamma is closed for business, but is available as a private event space. Please contact our special events office at 212-331-0328 for further information.

Thank you for your patronage.

I can't imagine Trabocchi would stick around to do private parties. Or, would he? Either way, I'm sure I'll never find out what that would mean.

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Trabocchi won't be sticking around. From Bruni's blog post:

“I wish I could tell you otherwise, and I don’t mean to be pessimistic,” said Mr. Trabocchi, 34, who is now out of work. “But there are some tough conditions ahead, and over the next months it’s going to get worse rather than better.”

Mr. Trabocchi said he doesn’t know what he’ll do next, or whether he’ll be able to stay in New York, where he moved his wife and two children, now 5 and 7, from the Washington, D.C., area last June. He bought an apartment on the Upper East Side, where his children are in school.

In saying he would be “open to anything,” he was acknowledging that many accomplished chefs like him may not be able, in the current economic climate, to work with ingredients as expensive as they once did, or to prepare the kind of elaborate, elegant food they strived to master.

That’s not where the market is headed, he said.

[ulterior epicure]

I'm sure you've all visited the website by now.  For those who haven't, here is what is posted:

Dear Valued Guests,

Fiamma is closed for business, but is available as a private event space. Please contact our special events office at 212-331-0328 for further information.

Thank you for your patronage.

I can't imagine Trabocchi would stick around to do private parties. Or, would he? Either way, I'm sure I'll never find out what that would mean.

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Trabocchi won't be sticking around. From Bruni's blog post:

“I wish I could tell you otherwise, and I don’t mean to be pessimistic,” said Mr. Trabocchi, 34, who is now out of work. “But there are some tough conditions ahead, and over the next months it’s going to get worse rather than better.”

Mr. Trabocchi said he doesn’t know what he’ll do next, or whether he’ll be able to stay in New York, where he moved his wife and two children, now 5 and 7, from the Washington, D.C., area last June. He bought an apartment on the Upper East Side, where his children are in school.

In saying he would be “open to anything,” he was acknowledging that many accomplished chefs like him may not be able, in the current economic climate, to work with ingredients as expensive as they once did, or to prepare the kind of elaborate, elegant food they strived to master.

That’s not where the market is headed, he said.

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Thanks AEK, I'll just hope that he resurfaces somewhere I can visit.

[oakapple]

I can't imagine Trabocchi would stick around to do private parties.  Or, would he?  Either way, I'm sure I'll never find out what that would mean.

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It's funny/sad that they're keeping the space for private parties, and now is about the worst imaginable market for such events. Let's hope Trabocchi finds another gig in town.

[mjc]

I can't imagine Trabocchi would stick around to do private parties.  Or, would he?  Either way, I'm sure I'll never find out what that would mean.

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It's funny/sad that they're keeping the space for private parties, and now is about the worst imaginable market for such events. Let's hope Trabocchi finds another gig in town.

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I read on Eater that they own the building.

[ulterior epicure]

I can't imagine Trabocchi would stick around to do private parties.  Or, would he?  Either way, I'm sure I'll never find out what that would mean.

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It's funny/sad that they're keeping the space for private parties, and now is about the worst imaginable market for such events. Let's hope Trabocchi finds another gig in town.

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Oh, why didn't someone say something earlier? Just turn it into a momofuku vincisgrassis bar then.

[oakapple]

I can't imagine Trabocchi would stick around to do private parties.  Or, would he?  Either way, I'm sure I'll never find out what that would mean.

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It's funny/sad that they're keeping the space for private parties, and now is about the worst imaginable market for such events. Let's hope Trabocchi finds another gig in town.

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I read on Eater that they own the building.

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This is true, but even buildings you own have expenses.