John

As a hot dog fanatic, I really enjoy Kocher's homemade frankfurters as I mentioned in a previous post. I live quite a distance away, so I don't get the chance to go there often. On my last visit, I found out that they supply between 30 and 40 different establishments with their hot dogs. The butcher I spoke with wouldn't reveal the identity of the places because each place pays a lot for these dogs and enjoys the reputation of selling an excellent quality hot dog. They wouldn't want some of their customers (who may live a distance away) to go elsewhere to get the same franks. These are so good that Karl Ehmer's in Hillsdale sells them and serves them from their cart rather than their own German franks. As you might expect, the people at Karl Ehmer's main office in College Point are not happy. I spoke with someone there who told me that they don't like it, but there's nothing they can do about it. The beef franks, brats, and other sausages sold out of the Hillsdale Karl Ehmer's are in fact Karl Ehmer's brand produced in College Point, N.Y. Recently a friend told me about a frank from John's Meat Market in Scotch Plains, N.J. John's has a reputation as one of the finest meat markets in the state. In fact, they won an award for small business of the year from either N.J. Monthly or a N.J. business publication. My friend didn't know if this frank was made by John's or just sold by them. I called and found out that the frank are made for them by a small butcher shop. They refused to reveal who the butcher was. I drove down to buy a few. I had a sneaking suspicion that these franks might have been made by Kocher's. I asked the guy who waited on me and he admitted that they were supplied by Kocher's and have been for over 30 years. It was nice to make this discovery because now I can get these excellent hot dogs without having to travel to Ridgefield Park or Hillsdale. I called Kocher's and got to speak with the guy who actually makes the hot dogs. I asked if there was a place near me even closer that sells his franks. I found out that there isn't. He named one or 2 German restaurants that carry them (I forget their names) but was reluctant to identify too many places. He did tell me that he learned his craft from his father, and that the franks are in the German style containing 70% beef and 30 % pork. I mentioned that most German franks are either 50/50 or more than 50 % pork. He agreed but told me that Kocher's franks are in the German style as they are mixed meat (not all beef) and are milder, containing neither garlic nor paprika like kosher or kosher style franks. By any means, a great frankfurter and one of my 3 favorites in this style out of dozens sampled. My other 2 favorites are Thumann's (the griller in the blue and white package) and Sahlen's out of Buffalo, N.Y.

Be careful with Nathan's. They are hit or miss and I wouldn't recommend most of them. A true Natahan's dog has a natural casing and is prepared on a hot griddle. Many Nathan's use the skinless version and cook them on those roller grills that you see at movie theaters. Too bad many people have an inferior dog from one of these franchises and then wonder what the fuss is about Nathan's. There are some that are as good as the original in Coney Island, minus the atmosphere and ambience of course. The Nathan's in the Menlo Park Mall in Edison, N.J. is every bit as good as Nathan's in Coney Island. And they even have a special. Three dogs for $3.33 if you buy an order of fries. This special is run Fri through Mon.

It seems that when people think of a "New York hot dog" they are either referring to the dirty water street cart Sabretts, or the grilled beef dogs served at Nathan's, Katz's, Papaya King, Gray's Papaya, and numerous Papaya King knockoffs. Katz's and the Papaya places use Sabretts that are prepared on a griddle. Although considered a New York dog, Sabrett was originally a New Jersey company. They were located on Cole and Henderson street in Jersey City. The company was sold a few times and is now owned by Marathon Enterprises in Jersey although the dogs are produced at the Stahl Mayer plant in the Bronx. When referring to "New York hot dogs" most people mean New York City, where the above 2 styles (dirty water all beef and griddled all beef) are prevalent. The state of New York has a big variety of hot dogs. The Hudson Valley, in particular Newburgh, has many establishments serving what we in Jersey refer to as a Texas Weiner. A grilled beef and pork dog topped with mustard, onions, and Greek style chili. Also called a Coney in other states. Around Buffalo there is a small chain called Ted's which is famous for char broiled dogs. The brand used is Sahlen's, which is one of the finest German style beef and pork dogs available anywhere. The area near Rochester is known for their "white hots" which are made from mostly pork and veal with a tiny amount of beef included. These taste more like a bratwurst or weisswurst, but are shaped like a regular hot dog. You can also find in Manhattan more than just the dirty water or grilled beef dogs. Crif Dogs is a Rutt's Hutt (New Jersey pork based deep fried dog) knockoff. A former owner admitted this to me. And they do a pretty good job. Knowing that many New Yorkers are used to a more well seasoned beef dog, Crif's also offers a quality (THumann's) beef dog that is prepared on a griddle. There is also F&B in Chelsea which serves a variety of European style dogs. Karl Ehmer and Schaller & Weber are 2 companies that make top quality dogs. One or the other is served at the various Hallo Berlin carts and restaurants. Holly's site has pictures and reviews of many of these places. Still waiting for some new ones Holly. As for Chicago style, I was never crazy about all the toppings that go on a Chicago dog. A guy from Chicago moved to Jersey and opened a place near me serving authentic Chicago style dogs and sandwiches such as Italian Beef. I ate there frequently and sort of aquired a taste for the Chicago dog. The place was called J's Beef. He left his Linden location and is looking to open elsewhere. He is currently doing catering. The beef dogs popular in Chicago; Vienna, Best, Sinai 48, Red Hot Chicago, etc are in the Hungarian rather than Frankfurt style, meaning that they are more mildly spiced, favoring less garlic and more of another particular spice (which I can't recall) than what you are used to in a Sabrett, Nathan's, Best (from Newark, N.J. not Chi town) Boars Head or Hebrew National. As a result, the Chicago dogs blend in better with the other ingredients and balance out well. A Chicago dog with a spicy Sabrett would be out of balance. I'll let everyone know when and where J's Beef will reopen. He makes a great example of a Chicago Hot Dog. He was even recognized by the President of Vienna Beef. His version is far superior to the Shake Shack's. The Shake Schack's are often served warm or cool and have cucmbers, lettuce, and peppers, which are not typical of a Chicago Hot Dog. J's serves his (Vienna dog, 6 to a lb) on a poppy seed bun with mustard, neon green relish, onions, tomato slices, pickle, sports peppers, and celery salt. The dogs, mustard, relish, pickles, peppers, and celery salt are brought in from Chicago.

A grilled natural casing all beef dog at either Papaya King, Gray's Papaya, Katz's, or Nathan's.

They were good pictures, not crappy. I agree, a good beef hot dog needs nothing but mustard. That's how I have them almost all of the time. Exceptions: an occasional chili dog from a cart (Tony's Truck in Newark) and of course, an Italian Hot Dog. Toppings such as Texas Weiner chili and Rutt's Hut's delicious relish go better with a pork based dog. Speaking of Italian Hot Dogs, Jimmy Buff's was mentioned in the Chicago Tribune recently. http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/mag...0,3948571.story

Happy Anniversary! The tour is open to anyone. Maybe your friends who join you on your hot dog excursions would like to go. More info here: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=105737

I love this site as well. One of the great things about it is that there are all kinds of people who post here. Restaurant owners, authors, people who are wealthy and can afford to travel the world and enjoy all kinds of cuisine, and people like me who enjoy hot dogs, hamburgers, pizza, diners, etc. Although I don't travel often and cannot afford to dine at many of the places I read about here, I feel as though I am living vicariously. E-Gullet is a great resource as well. I will be on vacation at Long Beach Island and have printed out the recommendations posted here. But as much as I learned from being a member and being exposed to the knowledge and experience of this community, the bottom line is, "did I like the food?" As I've posted before, a lot of the enjoyment I get is finally eating at a place I've read so much about and finally getting to form my own opinion. Lima Bean, name the place and I'm there. Preferably a hot dog joint that serves beer. Let's see, Hiram's. Rutt's Hutt. Galloping Hill Inn. Libby's. Perhaps you and your group would like to join us on the New Jersey Hot Dog Tour on Sept 15th?

Lima Bean, Let me say that I enjoy your posts. I first read some of them on the Amazing Hot Dog Thread. I do disagree with you that passion should stay out of this. Remember, this is an OPINION message board and there is nothing wrong with stating your opinions. I assume this is what you mean even though you say "state facts, good or bad". I would say that people who post here, especially those who post often are passionate about food. There is never any need to apologize for your opinions, so long as they are what you think and not being posted because you don't like someone or to be vindictive. Don't let anyone intimidate you into not speaking your mind. It seems to me that too many people in the restaurant business are more than happy to accept compliments and praise, but are thin skinned when it comes to criticism. Yet they will claim they don't mind negative comments. I can see someone getting upset if you mistate factual things such as hours, price, type of food or size, but when it comes to what you think of the food, that is your opinion, and as everyone knows, taste is subjective. I think there is no doubt that the owner of this restaurant was being sarcastic while trying to pretend he wasn't by adding a smiley face. And he wouldn't have apologized unless he was called on it. I am not a restaurant owner or food critic. I love hot dogs and post on them often on various food forums including here. As a result, I am sometimes asked to comment on them in the newspaper or other media. Last year I was part of a team that reviewed 87 hot dog restaurants for the Newark Star Ledger. I actually enjoy talking about hot dogs almost as much as eating them. And because I do, I always include my e-mail address. It's been my experience that many people who will not post their opinions on open forums will e-mail them to me. You wouldn't believe the names I'm called and what people have to say about me. That's ok because I have a thick skin. And no one will prevent me from voicing my opinions. I've had negative things to say about someone's hot dogs who was a good friend of my father. He didn't like it. Tough. I've also praised the hot dogs of someone who cursed me out when I was at her restaurant. I've gotten e-mails telling me that I should never say anything negative about a restaurant because it may hurt their business. Perhaps the most ridiculous thing I've been told is that I should have to qualify everything I say by stating it is just my opinion and not fact. I would think that most people should be able to figure that out. So I'm not surprised, Lima Bean, that on another thread a comparison you made was called "disrespectful". I could go on and on, but I think everyone gets the jist of what I'm saying. In some of my correspondence, I've actually had someone imply that your (Lima Bean's) comments should not be taken seriously because "you often have negative things to say about E-Gullet approved restaurants" Really. I've also had restaurant owners tell me that my negative opinions might prevent others from going to their restaurant. Well, so be it. I tell everyone to go and make up their own mind despite what I, or others have to say about it. I think that people, whether they are restaurant owner, friends or family of restaurant owners, patrons of restaurants, etc. ought to develop a thicker skin and not be so sensitive to criticism of their favorite places. And if you disagree with someone, nothing wrong with posting and/or debating it. As for me, I would rather discuss or debate it online rather than in an e-mail, especially when the subject was brought up in a forum.

There are many different types of dogs and ways of preparing them. Not to mention people have differing tastes. I don't know if it's fair to compare Amazing Hot Dog to say, Rutt's Hut. Both places serve fried hot dogs, but it's like comparing apples to oranges. Amazing serves a well seasoned beef dog that's big in size, while Rutt's serves a mostly pork based dog that is made to puff up. Then there is the whole condiment thing. I think the Rutts dog goes great with their unique relish. And I like their smaller size so I can eat many of them. I also like the chili at Amazing, as well as their other fine toppings. But when I have a flavorful beef dog, the great majority of the time I only have mustard on it. Despite the top quality toppings and combinations, I still get the basic dog (Classic) with just mustard. The dog served at Amazing (Best's) is my favorite beef dog. But I prefer it in a different size and usually a different way of preparation (grilled). But that's just my taste and opinion. To me, the dogs are short and fat rather than longer and thinner, which I prefer. Again, it's a matter of taste. And while I like dogs deep fried, most of the time I seek them grilled. Like Syd's used to. Jimmy Buffs in East Hanover serves the Syd's dog. You can get it prepared like Syd's if you wish. Or you can get it sauteed in the oil, then finished off on a charcoal grill. This happens to be my favorite dog. I like it even better than the Syd's dog. Syd's, by the way, is gone for good. One criticism I have of Amazing Hot Dogs is that the dogs are often not hot enough. I'm not saying cold, but cool or warm in the middle. Not hot. I know from speaking with Eric that his goal is to fry the dogs (he calls it flash frying) sufficiently without having them rip open (like a ripper) thereby keeping in the flavorful juices. The result is a tasty dog, but all too often the dogs are not heated to the degree that I like. This may be due to them not spending enough time in the fryer or because of the thickness of the dogs themselves, or both. I don't know. But it's something that I notice most of the time when I have a dog from there.

For a quality kosher or kosher style beef hot dog, just brown deli mustard. For a milder spiced beef and pork dog, mustard and chili, or the unique, delicious relish at Rutts Hut.

Who got best cheesesteak? And was there a category for best hot dog?

Dick, Have you ever had the Usinger's natural casing beef dog? The smaller one with the sheep casing. This one would be closer in style to Nathan's and Vienna than the veal dog. Shortly after the tasting, I compared a Boars Head, Best's, and Nathan's. I liked Best's the Best. Boars Head was just as good. Although I scored Nathan's half a point higher than Boars Head, I clearly preferred Boars Head when I had it this time in a roll and with a full dog. Nathan's didn't have the firm texture that the other 2 did and was a tad greasy. I would rate Best's (Newark, not Chicago) Usinger's, and Boars Head as the three best beef dogs with Sabrett and Nathans right behind.

A couple of weeks ago I had lunch at the Edison Five Guys. I've read a lot of posts and opinions about how the quality has gone down since they've expanded, how the burgers are dried out and/or mediocre, etc. I wanted to see for myself. My burger was well done, but juicy and delicious. The fries were excellent and better than any fast food hamburger joint. The hot dog, a quarter pound Hebrew National, was also very good. Although I prefer a grilled frank with natural casing, this one was split and grilled, giving the dog a crunchy exterior. I enjoyed my lunch and look forward to going back when I'm in the mood for a burger. There will be a Five Guys opening in Union at the Millburn Mall. It will be located where Syd's used to be. While I'm happy about getting Five Guys close to where I live, I'm sorry to see the place serving arguably the best hot dog in Jersey (therefore the world) move out.

Taste is subjective. The Vienna dog is much blander than a typical New York/ New Jersey dog. But it lends itself better to all of the condiments or ingredients that are put on a Chicago Style Dog. If you were to include a spicier New York or Jersey dog, it would throw everything out of balance. On the other hand, if you were just sampling a dog with mustard only, the East Coast dogs have more flavor. More important is the fact that you tend to prefer what you grew up or were brought up with. In my opinion, Usinger's all beef dog is hands down better than the Vienna dog. In fact, it was picked as the dog to be served at the Olympic Games. The Olympic Comitee engaged in an all day taste test to find the best all beef dog, and Usinger's won. But this would mean little to those who grew up on Vienna franks.

It's pretty common in north Jersey and southern Connecticut.

The website Off The Broiler recently held an indepth tasting of hot dogs. Beter and more comprehensive than the recent tasting published by Consumer Reports. http://offthebroiler.wordpress.com/2007/07...asting-of-2007/

Usinger's as well as some others who make hot dogs define a wiener as a longer, thinner sausage with a more tender sheep casing while a frankfurter is thicker with a hog or pig casing. Some like Schaller & Weber use a sheep casing for both, but the wiener is longer and thinner than the frank.

White Rose in Roselle is my favorite place for greasy griddled burgers. Similar, but better than White Mana, White Manna, and White Diamond. Burger Express was a frequent stop after Mets games. Good cheese fries, wings, and Taylor Ham, egg and cheese, but the burgers were mediocre. A few years ago it was reviewed by the Munchmobile and the consensus was that it was the worst burger reviewed. But ok at 2:00 AM.

Heidih, Thanks so much for the information. And thank you dad. Some of the best hot dogs and wieners I've had were made at butcher shops. I'm in New Jersey. Would your dad's shop happen to be in Jersey? If so, I would love to try some.

I love hot dogs and have sampled them all along the Northeast. I buy them through mail order and have people send them to me. When I purchase hot dogs I keep them in the refrigerator until I open the package. Then I store the remainder in the freezer. My question is about refreezing. I was recently sent a large quantity of different hot dogs via overnight mail. The dogs were packed in ice. They were still cold when I got them so I put the unopened packages in the refrigerator. I found out that these hot dogs were stored in a freezer prior to them being sent to me. One package has 5 lbs, the other 2 have 3 lbs each. Once I open the packages, do you think it would be ok to freeze the remaining hot dogs? I've heard that you can refreeze. Others have told me this is no good. What do you think?

I think there is a lot of hysteria concerning trans fats. http://www.consumerfreedom.com/oped_detail.cfm/oped/407 Hot dogs are not health food anyway. The consumer and not the government should decide what we eat. We have been consuming trans fats for a long time, and like the article states, life expectancy has gone up, not down. As a consumer, I want to make my own choices and I choose to eat what tastes best. Coca Cola with cane sugar and french fries (and hot dogs) fried in beef tallow. I would urge restaurant owners not to give in to health fanatics. Many of us grew up eating foods fried in lard and beef tallow. Yet there were so few over weight kids because we were out playing baseball all day rather than sitting behind a computer playing video games. Rutt's Hut still fries their dogs in beef tallow. This is why their dogs taste better than other hot dog joints that use the same Thumanns dog for deep frying but fry in vegetable oil. French fries also taste better fried in beef tallow. Many people who remember eating at McDonalds when they used beef tallow will attest to this. What's next? Outlaw all frying? Maybe the government will try to get us all to switch from beef to tofu dogs. Another interesting article: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,228537,00.html

They open at 6:00 in the morning and close at 4 or 5. On Saturday they close at 1. Closed Sundays. They also sell other beef products including hamburgers, roast beef, corned beef, pastrami, beef bacon, spicy sausage, and a few others. These are top quality. In fact, the roast beef and corned beef (and maybe the pastrami) sold at Wegmans under their own label is from Best.

To get Syd's hot dogs, just go to the factory on Avon Ave. and Jeliff St. I think once or twice in 9 years they didn't have them when I went, so depending on how far you're travelling, you might want to call to make sure they have them. Years ago, you could order as little as a pound (5 hot dogs). After 3 people died from lysteria poisoning eating tainted Sabrett hot dogs, a law was passed that hot dogs purchased from the factory had to wrapped in cryovac or otherwised sealed. The Syd's dogs as well as the other sizes available are sold in 2 lb or 5 lb packages. The dog served at Syd's was a 5 to a lb natural casing all beef dog. Just ask for the Syd's dog. And if you want to enjoy your dogs like Syd's prepared them, simmer (or boil) in water, then finish them off on a gas or charcoal grill.

I spoke with the plant manager at Best. They will continue to make the dogs. Jimmy Buffs uses them as do many walk in customers. I was told that there are distributors and wholesalers who also purchase them.

Bob, They should continue to make them. Jimmy Buffs uses them, and I'm sure others may consider doing so. Some years back Don's in Livingston closed. They used Best 4 to a lb which is shorter and fatter than the Syd's 5. Best was going to stop making them, but since so many of Don's customers went to the plant and requested them, they continued to make them. Now there are several hot dog establishments that use the Best 4 to a lb. I'm one of many who go to Best's and buy the Syd's dog to prepare at home. So I'm sure they will continue to make them, but I'll call to find out.