Bux

As I may have noted elsewhere, I haven't been there, but a French born professional chef and his food professional wife reported that they enjoyed dinner there without going into too much detail. His standards for bistro cooking may be different than the ones he applies to his own haute cuisine cooking, but he's intolerant of sloppy cooking or poorly conceived dishes at any level.

Even in France I wonder if the Michelin Guide is as strong as it once was in spite of the fact that GaultMillau is less competition than it was. What I find surprising is that rather than strengthen the guides to Spain and Italy, Michelin is considering a New York guide. It's possible that's in recognition of the sales pattern of the Spain and Italy guides. I wonder if American's don't put more trust in Michelin over all of Europe and buy more of the non-France guides than do Europeans. There are many business plans. One can improve one's product to appeal to a more discriminating audience, or one can find something else to sell to those who already buy the old products. The American Michelin market would make an interesting study. I believe America sends many gourmets to Europe with a strong interest in eating in the best restaurants and that these diners have a good appreciation of getting a great meal, but I also doubt the depth of their interest is anywhere near that of European gastronomes. This is not to say that the average diner in any European country is a gastronome and I've met my share of Europeans who profess a great dedication to food, but whose interest is quite shallow or limited to local considerations.

No, it hasn't except for a few bits and pieces slipped into current threads. It was a disjointed trip, hastily planned for us to fly over with our daughter, son-in-law and nine month grandson and meet again in Paris after they've seen the other grandparents in Brittany and we saw people in the south. We got to meet Lucy and her husband and that was, as the Michelin puts it, a three star event--vaut le voyage.Our restaurant list was rather a patchwork of places including places we've avoided in the past because we've felt they offered poor value. I suppose the thinking was that if there was some irrationality in the reason we're going, our restaurants should follow suit. On another level however, I'll admit that I get tired reading both complaints and raves from others and just want to know for myself. I often eat out of curiosity as much as pleasure seeking. My need is to eat not only at all the restaurants everyone else talks about, but to eat at the ones no one talks about. Our two best value meals were at unstarred restaurants--l'Atelier de Joël Robuchon and Aux Lyonnais. All of our other meals were at one star places. L'Astrance, Chiberta, Benoit and Goumard. The last because our son-in-law ran into the chef on the street. The restaurant was a few blocks from our hotel and the two worked together in NYC. I take those kinds of coincidences as a sign that we should go eat there. Alas we made if for the only free meal left in our schedule, the lunch before we left and is often the case by the last day of the trip, our appetite was not up to the portions. My first course was exceptional as was Mrs. B's. The second course was just too much to eat and as a result although I remember being thrilled by the first few bites I quickly found myself not enjoying is as much as I probably could have under other circumstances. It's a pity that we didn't have the appetite as prices are as big as the portions. In retrospect, we should have taken the very moderately priced set menu. I'm sure the portions would have been smaller and we would have paid half as much. Such is life in the greedy lane. I normally pace myself well these days, but here we were in the final days of the trip and not feeling as if crise de foie was upon us--yet. Chiberta was maybe ten percent more than Benoit and offered far superior cuisine in my opinion. I had faults of a kind with both, but might return to Chiberta where my main fault was very rushed service. Oh yes, I've forgotten Pinxo where I found the results very mixed. Most dishes were a bit off in conception or execution. Disappointing because Dutournier is a chef whose Carré des Feulliants I've loved. L'Astrance was excellent although I felt one course needed a bit more of something including sauce. It was a return visit and I was surprised by the turn towards tradition taken by the kitchen. L'Astrance has also gotten more expensive in the two years since we were last there. That sense was reinforced by succumbing to the proposition of expensive champagne as an aperitif. We're not greenhorns, but we just arrived in Paris from the TGV in time to shower and have our first meal on a gorgeous day and it's easy to be seduced by champagne especially when you don't know when you'll eat again without the company of a nine month old.

I suspect a good time if you like that sort of thing. The folklore and the convivilaity seem to be the draw. I have no idea what manner of regional products will be available at what I suppose are booths. I'll assume there are things to eat as opposed to whole hams and wheels of cheese to take home. A couple of Sundays ago on our last day in Paris, we met an old friend at the Baron Rouge for oysters and then wandered to the Ile St. Louis because it's been a while since we've walked its streets. We bought some ice cream because it was there and drifted across the tip of the Ile de la Cité and across the bridge to the left bank where there were some quite charming street musicians that captured our attention for a few moments. Upon arriving at the left bank we noticed some sort of fair on the lower banks of the Seine. There were a group of producers from the Gers and surrounding départments set up in booths offering their food and wines by the case, bottle or glass and their food--cheese, charcuterie, preserves, etc.--in similar portions. It was crowded and hectic, but we had some wild boar pate on a baguette that was rewarding. It could be fun if your expectations aren't too high.

Ronda is a pleasant enough place to spend the night. No need to drive back from Tragabuches. The Parador is close enough to walk back as was out little hotel whose name I could find if anyone is intersted. Others will have to make suggestions in Sevilla or Granada. We didn't do well and have no recommendations other than to say Sevilla was a paradise for tapas. El Churrasco in Cordoba. Traditional food. Put yourself in their hands and ask for a tour of the old building where they have their wine celler.

It's always terrible to pay, or be charged, more than expected, but not nearly as bad on the scale by which disappointments are measured, as getting poor value at any price.

Indeed. I've always maintained that a great chef need not be in the kitchen for you to have a great meal in his restaurant. We did the tasting menu at l'Atelier and each and every course was on the mark. I was dining with a chef whose standards I consider pretty tight and whose own criticisms of haute cuisine these days are that it's often too fussy. He too was impressed with everything that appeared in terms of conception and execution. Mrs. B, who was impressed with frog's legs at Regis Marcon's Clos des Cimes in St. Bonnet-le-Froid the previous week, said those at Robuchon ordered a la carte, blew away any she had ever had.

Did it sit open or closed upon arrival? The act of pouring or decanting (is it called canting when you pour it back in the original bottle? ) effectively aerates it more than just standing in the decantor--well time is a factor, so that's inacurate, but the principle is there. So assuming you tasted it from the decanter, it was given a dose of air again when you poured it again.

The bar seems to get some regulars--ex-pats who live in the neighborhood. By coincidence we met one of them earlier in the day as he showed up at a neighborhood cafe where we were having a coffee with a mutual friend who sometimes lives in Paris. We hung around at the bar for a while after our dinner. We enjoyed the atmoshpere. It was a comfortable place and the food is quite good and fairly priced, or so it seemed last year.

I'm of mixed minds on getting dressed up for dinner, or at least of mixed minds on telling other people what to do. I think it's nice when people look sharp and dress well for a restaurant, but I certainly don't want others to make themselves uncomfortable on my behalf. It's also less fun to dress more formally than most of the others in a restaurant and people just don't dress as formally as they used to. I don't care if you're in New York, Paris or Madrid, you see less formal dress.

Some photographs of our food at Viridiana: Maple smoked foie gras over vanilla bread and rose chutney Cold potato salad with blue jack mackerel en escabeche Snails stewed with Saracen wheat Grilled carabinero prawns with Iberico pork jowl Fried egg over a boletus edulis mousse with fresh truffles Iberico pork with sauted seasonal vegetables Iberico pork with sauted seasonal vegetables, mole poblano and wheat tortillas

How long has la Table de Joël Robuchon been open?

Nudity, or near nudity always works well for women if they feel comfortable. I don't actually know that's true, but it's a trend I'd like to encourage. I'm all for suggesting you wear what's comfortable for you. Size the place up and decide what you think is right and wear it. Two and three star restaurants with four or five Michelin forks deserve a tie in my opinion. Few other places really do unless that's how you like to dress. We had lunch in Goumard a very elegant (four fork and spoon, one star) and rather expensive one star restaurant. There were several business men having lunch and wearing suits and ties. There was also one person wearing a denim jacket, or rather with a jeans jacket draped over the back of his chair and wearing a tieless shortsleeved shirt. The best I could determine was that all of the diners were welcomed and well treated.

I feel cheated if I don't keep my table for more than two hours. It's too short for a great meal, but with that in mind, you might consider l'Atelier de Joël Robuchon. Much has already been said here and the threads in which it's been said have links to other reviews. I was quite prepared to be turned off by the counter seating and relatively high prices and lack of trappings normally associated with this level of food, but I was thrilled by the tasting menu and the small portions and counter aspect actually worked to focus on the food rather than the ambience. Great food it was and in no more than 2 hours.

Rillettes are typically pork belly with lots of fat that have been long cooked and then shredded. Good small batch artisanal rillettes will be shredded by hand using a couple of forks, but most charcuteries have a more industrial grade shredded by machine. They can be very fatty and sometimes look more like pork fat mousse than meat, but I insist I have never met a rillette that didn't make the bread taste even better. More upscale rillettes are made from, or more likely with duck, rabbit, goose and pork. A few years ago I was at the charcuterie counter of a very fancy hypermarché in Brittany. I saw a pot of pork rillette at an economical price. Next to it was a pot of rabbit rillette for a bit more followed by goose or duck, I forget which, at even more money. The fourth and most expensive jar was pure pork again, but this time from a superior breed of pig raised organically. Now that's choice. The fish rillettes I've seen in France are really little more than what we'd call fish salad shredded into a spread. olive oil, mayonnaise or butter will render them untuous like pork rillettes, but often they're not that rich. In fact you can buy them canned. Truthfully, they look not unlike cat food, but to many pate looks like dog food and the seasoning as much as anything else sets them apart as a potential tread.

There have been more than a few posts about it, but I guess "fish" is a difficult search word and apt to bring up a lot of references unrelated to the restaurant. Wise restaurateurs will consider a unique name for their endeavor so it will bring quick results when entered into Google. It's a wine bar and a restaurant. No surprise as Juan owns a wine shop. The most recent mention I made of it is in the recent wine bar thread. We ate there just about a year ago. We were in the wine shop with mutual friends on a the day before our one day in Paris without a reservation. The young woman in the shop was quick to suggest Fish and call for us. We were quite pleased with our meal. It's simple food, but well priced and the wines by the carafe were good choices. As Juan is an American and the restaurant has gotten some good press in American magazines, it got a fair number of Americans as diners, but the atmosphere is relaxed and it didn't feel like a tourist zone.

Perhaps that's true. I'm inclined not to make a complete separation, but for the purpose of this thread, maybe we can agree on this and leave it behind us, although I suspect that if we find similarities in the way people eat, we will find some similarities in what they eat.Victor has focused on France as a country with a national cuisine and based that claim largely on its haute cuisine. That haute cuisine, as has been noted, is not only based on a royal cuisine, but has been codified for the 20th century by a French chef working abroad a good part of his career. I think haute cuisine for the past 100 years has been more of an international cuisine, although I suppose the weakness of my claim may be that its been exported internationally by successive generations of French chefs. The real shock to the French ego is that a resume that says born and trained in France is no longer enough to move a chef to the head of the hiring list. Waverly Root's The Food of France is the basis for my understanding of the food of France and he did a good job of separating the regions by the fat used for cooking--butter, olive oil and goose fat primarily. I don't think a similar claim for Spain will effectively convince me Spain has less of a national cuisine that France on that basis. In fact, I'm not sure any convincing is going to be done in this thread. Food is a very subjective topic. Remove taste, and it's hardly worth eating let alone talking about. The virtual tests I'd propose are: If you were dropped into a restaurant and most trappings of national identity were removed (flags, menus, etc.) and a meal was served to you, would you likely know you were in Spain, France or any other country. If you were dropped at ten restaurant table of a dozen different countries would the ten Spanish ones have an identity as greater or lesser than the other dozen countries. The fallacy here might be in confusing the knowledge of the parts with the sum, but with the exception of the most modern food in France, I can frequently tell what part of France I'm in from the dishes offered. Victor is well versed in haute cuisine and French regional cooking, but I recall a food savvy American expressing surprise that she couldn't find duck on the menu in her few days in Provence. Duck? Nothing as nationally French as canard à l'orange or magret, right? Wrong. I'm less informed about the regional food of Spain. That accounts for some of my excitement when eating in Spain, but the enjoyment seems to be increasing with acquired knowledge. Maybe my opinion on this will change as I learn more, but at the moment, I feel all too aware of the exact moment I cross over the Pyrenees. I've left a region of France and entered a region of Spain, but there's a greater difference crossing the national border than the international ones in each country. There's a great blurring of this at the Atlantic and possibly one that's growing, but that's no greater a mark against a Spanish identity than a French one. I suppose my point is that for all the arguments we make here, our subjective impressions will rule our opinion. The one last thought I might offer is that Spain excels in two things, canning and jarring all sorts of foods--vegetables, fish, etc--and preserving meat--particularly pork but venison and other meat as well--by curing, that much of its local bounty is very easily transportable wherever there's a taste for it. Victor, Pedro and others can tell me if that taste is often national. I know that in major markets and butchers, I see a variety of sausages from many regions.

Four bottles of wine in what seemed like such a short evening. We hardly began to talk, it seemed as if there was so much more to say to each other.

First, I think we can talk about it whether it exists or not. I think the discussion of whether it exists can be taken further than Victor takes it. I think the term is relative. Does France really have a national character? Victor says it has a true national cuisine that's the haute cuisine character. I'd disagree in that haute cuisine may influence all restaurants, but still be one facet of the cuisine. There is a cuisine of the Ile de France that's often taken as the national cuisine and it's been absorbing dishes from all over France, but still one eats differently in Provence than one does in Alsace or Brittany. It's just that France is homogenizing at faster rate than Spain for a longer time. In due time Spain is likely to follow suit as is a large part of Europe. Mozzarella, tomatoes and basil is now a typical bistro dish in France. There are two aspects that come to mind as to whether a nation has a national cuisine. Is there food that is the same, or varies only slighty from region to region and whose appearance tends to stop abrupty at the borders? I'll submit the tortilla as an example for Spain. Can I also ask if there they foods that appear across the border that have not made inroads within the country? I think that question can no longer be asked in the 21st century without qualification. Balsamic vinegar, soy sauce and lemon grass seem to be ubiquitous and sushi, pizza and hamburgers are pretty well distributed. They may obliterate the regional cuisine as well as the national one. Perhaps one qualification of Pedro's question is to dismiss the international aspect and stick to the regional vs. national character of Spanish cooking. I say the one doesn't preclude the other. If 90% of what's on a menu or eaten in a home in any area is regional food, I'm willing to suggest the other 10% may be national food and enough to say there's a Spanish cuisine, but that it's weak in comparison to the regional cuisine. Weak perhaps, but still worth identifying. Pork is ubiquitous, but it's different in China than it is when it's jamon. Can we find a Spanish common denominator in jamon and embutidos that is different than the Italian equivalent? I think so.

The extent to which this is true may be a surprise to many members. The feedback I get used to surprise me. It really doesn't any longer.

Pierre, you have the experience of not only understanding these restaurants, but of first had observation of the difference between the range of restaurants in Paris and those of NYC and its metropolitan suburbs. I will agree that the ma and pa restaurants in Paris are unlike the slick restaurant in either Paris or the NY area, while they are also as unlike most of the little places in NY as well. In my opinion, one can't comprehend the nature of the complaint being made in this thread without understanding that for these restaurants to "improve" they have to lose what it is that makes them desirable in the first place.I'm sensing a dichotomy between the posts made by those who have lived in Paris for an extended period and those who have not.

My guess is that you are thoroughly familiar with your local restaurant scene and not very well versed on dining in Paris. I can only state that the dynamic is very different in each market.

Since our last visit to Paris which ended last Monday, I've been spreading a mandarin chocolate confiture on my brioche. This was purchased at the Layfayette Gourmet Societé d'Alimentation at Galeries Lafayette. Madarines, chcoclat et sucre. It is sinful. It's hardly the best place in France to shop for jams and stuff, but we were in the first arrondissement and it was convenient. My preference perhaps, would have been Bomn Marché had we more time. The advantage of the Fermier Show, is that you can taste. With the knowledge that came from tasting, we made a much wider range of purchases the year we visited the show. The downside was that it was hectic and crowded.

Given that the the forks and spoons already rate the decor, ambience and service, it's not unreasonable to restrict the stars to an opinion of the food. Given that the stars over time have become the raison d'être of the guide, it's very surprising that the new head is from the ranks of hoteliers. Personally, I can understand why an administrator might be better suited to the job than a food critic, I would have preferred seeing someone with administrative talents coming from outside the hospitatlity industry who would leave the food to the experts. As always, time will tell. Michelin remains perhaps the most useful guide to restaurants in France, but yearly it is becoming less influential and less significant in my opinion. The world is changing and along with it, France and French food is changing in a way that renders the Michelin system less viable.

What I suspect some of them like is enough word of mouth to keep them full of the kind or people who will likely become regulars. There are surely many who will enjoy the quick profits of a good review in an American glossy, but I've talked to one journalist who had to listen to the complaints of Parisian bistro owners who were well reviewed by that same journalist. The tourist rush was short lived. Their regular clientele was driven away and it's taking time to bring them back.