Bux

Good thread, thanks people. I'm only sorry I got here so late and wuld like to respond to too much of it, although it's also left things pretty well covered. If I had to offer a single difference betwen great restauant kitchens, It would probably be access to great stocks and fonds. I realize they can be made at home, but not at the last minute. I've not tried some of the commercial demi-glaces and don't recall seeing them as much. Are they still around, or was there no market? Pastrychef, do I know you, or is there just a personality type that leans in this direction? I suspect I don't know you. Your "voice" is not familiar, but your point of view is. I'm the last guy to dismiss passion as useful trait for a chef, but I strongly beleive you're correct that emotion is of no use. Technique is certainly the prerequisite for any chef or cook. As far as I know, a chef is not a higher form of cook but one who is in charge of others. If you cook at home, you're not a chef unless you can really boss your spouse around. My wife cooks much better when I boss her around, but I sleep less well on the couch.

Oh the English language. What do you mean by "hot?" Tell me and I'll define "delicious." ;-) I guess delicious implies a certain mouth filling lusciousness, which certainly doesn't apply to any high proof alcohol. Anyway, do you mean hot as in raw alcohol burn on the throat, or trendy? They generally run at 80 proof or more. I hope they aren't becoming trendy as they're expensive enough as is. At least the good ones are. The smoothness of these is dependent on catching the middle of the distillation which has the least harsh components and the most flavorful. So the best, as usually seems to be the case, it the most expensive since a great deal of the distillate is allowed to escape unbottled. I find the aroma of many to be quite enjoyable, but the finish, as you say, is the attraction. Poire Williams seems to provide the most value. Other fruits are often much more subtle and cost more to make. I'll have to keep an eye out for the Bonny Doon. Someone recently asked for a recommendation for an American eux-de-vie to bring to a Frenchman. I could only think of Clear Creek from Oregon which I have not tasted. They brought a bottle of a Wild Turkey special bottling instead. Back in January of '96 we visited an artisanal distiller south of Agen. He offered a lengthy tasting and lessons in the appreciation of eaux-de-vie. A description of that visit is on the WorldTable site. It's worth the trip, but I'd call first to see if he's still operating and I'd consider staying at his B&B, if you taste as much as we did.

Indeed, truth is an overrated commodity. ;)

Preet, I'm inclined to think you'll read anything in print, but I'll head over to the Bowery later and interview some of those guys I see drinking Ripple. I suppose wine drinkers do live longer. Those guys look as if they're 102. ;)

I'd say that in NYC, on the whole, if you walk into a good restaurant with a bottle of wine, they'll look at you as if you were carrying a pizza in a box and asked for a table. Preet's probably correct that if you're a respected and important regular, they would not charge for a special bottle on a special occasion. I suspect they'ed rather not charge and let you know it's a favor, than to charge and set a precedent. I've never done it and would never think of doing it without calling ahead. I've only eaten at 11 Madison Park, three times and two of those times I was with people known to the staff, but all of my meals were quite successful. I may have noticed some inconsistency, but the range was all in the very good to better level. Danny Meyer's restaurants not only seem to have excellent wine prices, but an interesting selection, but ฤ still seems like a bargain for corkage. The last time we were at 11 Madison Park, they had a very inexpensive Jurancon sec. Which turned out to be a great buy for those willing to drink the cheapest wine in the house. To answer Beachfan, upper echelon is a bit subjective, but all of them are about the food. Gramercy Tavern is the flagship and the one that's most often named as the best American restaurant in NYC. The offerings may seem a bit simpler than those in the top French restaurants, but the cooking is as skilled and consistent. The service is also less formal or less European, but the staff is as knowledgeable as any in the city and as professional.

For the record, it was the cooking that I most found troubling. No one attempted to steal my clothes and I do not recall an overcharge.

Ken, the chef/owner of Tomoe Sushi in NYC intoduced me to umeshisoyama maki, which he described as a finish roll, that is to end your sushi feast. It's a decidedly acquired taste. I believe it's the texture of the yam that's hardest for Americans. I've learned to like it, but the whole roll is still too much for me and I've met no one who will share it with me a second time. ;)

My age is showing. I remember when you were in small towns within ten minutes of passing the Periferique. In December we took the TGV south from Lyon just to get to Provence a bit quicker. We picked up our car in Montelimar, but didn't start driving south until we loaded up on nougat. It's hard to make sure you buy enough at the beginning of the trip to have some left for souvenirs at the end.

It would save more space for me to list the things I don't like. It is hard to think of one, but I don't like cooked shrimp. I find it usually has no flavor. The same could be said for most precooked seafood and especially shrimp cocktail as served in the US. I find it a mark of the increasingly sophisticated tastes of New Yorkers that my favorite sushi bar has replaced the boiled shrimp in it's chirashi sushi with ama ebi. To the best of my memory, I've not met a bird or fish egg, I've not liked. Cod roe seems to appear mostly in a highly spiced form. At least that's the one I know. I like it best in a roll with cucumber. Salmon roe is a favorite. One time I was sitting at the bar and the Japanese diner next to me ordered an ikura kaiware sushi. The rice wrapped in nori, came with Salmon roe and radish sprouts on top. I ordered one too and it has become a favorite. I've never seen it listed on a menu as such. I also enjoy the small crisp roe the sushi chef at my favorite place, scatters on his set chirashi sushi. I believe it's flying fish roe.

I suppose so if you can make heads or tails out of the story. This has gone so far off topic that I'm a bit reluctant to continue the subthread. I also hate to knock restaurants I've not been to in six months, but the last time we were in Gascogne, it was a very disappointing experience. Our companions were a French couple and an American couple who spend much of the year in their house in the Languedoc. Neither couple eats regularly in three star restaurants, but they do know their food and we've dined with them in France, the US and at El Bulli. Our concensus was that this was not the restaurant the four of us, who have eaten there before, remember. The food was largely unsatisfactory and in some cases bore little resemblance to what one might reasonably expect from the listing on the menu. If I recall correctly a tastless boeuf bouilli with a bland cream sauce and pickles on the side, was served as a pot au feu. Wine service was particularly strange from an outspoken waiter unfamiliar with the list and the wines of the southwset of France. At the time I expressed my views in a public forum and a trusted voice noted that she had found great inconsistency lately from a restaurant that was a trusted favorite in its class.

As I thought about restaurants with rooms and hotels without public spaces, the Moulin de la Gorce in la Roche l'Abeille, near St.-Yrieix-la-Perche south of Limoges came to mind. It's hard to think of a Relais et Châteaux inn as a simple restaurant with rooms, but Michelin shows three crossed forks and spoons in red. I don't recall any public spaces other than the dining room. Bedrooms are in several stone buildings that were once part of a mill. We did have the least expensive room I've ever heard of in a R&C establishment, but aside from a sloped ceiling over the tub which made showers a bit of a problem for some (my wife didn't notice a problem) and barely enough room to walk around the bed, it was an exceptionally charming room. The whole little complex is at one end of a pond with ducks and there were sheep grazing on a hill on the other side of the pond. The food was sensational and it's two stars were well earned. The scenery was breathtaking. This is a rural location. I'm not sure if either la Roche St. Bernard or the supposedly bigger St.-Yrieix-la-Perche really exist as towns. By the way, did you want to walk from a TGV station or just not have to drive all the way from Paris?

Perhaps my very favorite restaurant with rooms is in Belcastel in the Aveyron. Some years back Le Vieux Pont was highly touted in the GaultMillau guide on a page promoting young restauranteurs of the year. We sought it out, but the hotel mentioned was still under construction and we found rooms in a nearby town, but the next time we were there, we secured a room in the new annex across a small stone bridge from the restaurant. The rooms were bright, simple, but with fine tile bathrooms and a refreshingly complete lack of upholstery and drapes. The food could easily be described in simliar food terms. I just looked it up in the Michelin to check that the Vieux Pont is listed as a restaurant with rooms and not as a hotel. GM lists it as both restaurant and hotel. It's rather subjective when a restaurant with rooms becomes a hotel. The sleeping annex at le Vieux Pont has seven bedrooms, but no public spaces, . For me this may be the distinction. I"m not sure. It's a gem, but not on most people's path. I suppose the nearest train station is in Rodez 27k away. No TGV access.

Favorite? I think it depends on which one I had last. I have to agree with grahame about picking just one, but I also agree that if I had to choose, it would probably be sea urchin when it's really good. Many years ago we were in Kazanzawa and got on line outside a sushi restaurant in the central market. As we moved forward we eventually found ourselves on line inside the market. We were obviously the only non-Asians in the restaurant and I suspect well noticed. I don't speak Japanese, but at some point a tray with a bowl of sushi rice covered with uni passed in front of us. My eyes lit up, I nudged my wife and said "look, uni chirashi-sushi." I had the sense I surprised every one in the room and I also sensed a sigh of relief from the staff.

Fat Guy, I've seen a dangerous trend in France as well. It should be noted that if I see something once and it really bothers me, I see a dangerous trend. Even Daniel Boulud's masterful incorporation of fruit into seafood dishes leaves me sometimes wondering why, but in his case it's done without any sense of "sweet" and my question is put aside at least as long as I'm eating, which is only when it matters. A few years ago in Brittany, my wife and I ordered two separate dishes at a two star restaurant. It was debatable which of us least enjoyed the dish or the restaurant. We found the dishes syrupy in a way that went beyond the sweetness I've found acceptable in Asian preparations. At least two more editions of Michelin have come out with the same two star rating. Unless we were there on a bad experiment day, I smell danger. Just last month at a lcoal Parisian restaurant with no stars, but with some bit of attention in the press and by word of mouth, I had a crab salad garnsihed with a scoop of tomato ice cream. It was creamy, sweet and unexpected. It could have been dessert. It's possible to do a savory ice cream. I think sweet was a creative choice. The lacquered duck that followed was also sweeter than expected although here I expected some sweetness. As for the U.S., one of the things that led us to approach yearly trips to the Adirondaks via Montreal rather than from airports and train stations closer to home, was the food. Everything in Burlington, VT seemed to come garnished with fresh fruit as if I was ordering some brunch special. The killer was the bowl of pasta with salmon in cream sauce, in some very fancy restaurant somewhere upstate. It really didn't need that sprinkling of fresh blueberries on top. I could only guess they ran out of dill or chives. I would be tempted to argue with Rosie and say desserts, on the other hand, cannot be to sweet, but an Emeril Lagasse banana pie with caramel demonstrated otherwise.

In no particular order and some of these may fail to meet one or more of your criteria. Also, some may no longer be available where I found them. A good sized squid cooked sort or teriaki style and served on a skewer at the side of a very winding mountain road in avery rural part of Japan. Alcapurrias and bacalaitos fritos at the beginning of what used to be a dirt road to Loisa Aldea from Isla Verde, Puerto Rico. As the best were deep fried fresh for you, these may have not made the 2 minute cut. Most, by the way, were wretchedly leaden, greasy and awful, but it's human nature to always live in hope that the next will be better. Also some of the stands grew into huts and there were often some tables and maybe even chairs or benches. The steamed pork and cabbage buns that were reheated on a griddle under a wok top and developed a thick bottom crust. There were sold on the south side of Canal Street around Baxter and Mullberry. It's been a while since I've seen them anywhere in Chinatown. I've always blamed Rudy Giuliani's skewed vision of quality of life for their demise from the street. Nothing in the way of street food I've found lately in Chinatown compares, but my favorite baked char shu bao these days are from a little bakery on the south side of Grande Street between Mott and Elizabeth Streets. Ice cream, gelato and frozen confections all over the world. Nasi goreng and bami goreng. Balls of fried rice and fried noodle purchased from an automat-like window on the streets of Amersterdam.

Years ago I had a barber scissors, that was in my toiletires bag in my carry on, confiscated in Osaka, Japan. It was returned to us by the stewardess upon arrival in JFK. My suspicion was that it was kept in a special place on board, but not with checked baggage. I think Tommy's suggestion is the route to go. Check and see if some special provision can be made. Changing planes makes the problem even worse as you'll have to deal with the knives twice and maybe with two different airlines as well as two different airport security systems. I can't imagine they'll let you carry the knives around in the secure area when you cange planes. I wonder how professional chef's handle this. I'm sure they must travel with their own tools at times. The chef's I've known who have catered, mostly drive to their clients' kitchens. Be sure to report back on what you find out and how you make out. The more I think about it, checked baggage may be your only choice. Take out insurance.

Union Square rang a bell, Cafe didn't. Perhaps it was the more formal Union Square Restaurant I knew. I believe Sally's Apizza is the other one. The link will take you to Shaw's Pizza page at fat-guy.com where he extolls the virtues of Sally's pizza over Pepe's. I've only had pizza once in New Haven, so I have no say in this argument.

I remember a nice meal at the Union League Cafe. It was at least some six or more years ago. I also seem to recall that one needed to reserve some time in advance, especially on certain weekends. Is it under the same management as it was then? There were a few other restaurants that were casual and satisfactory near the campus as well. It's certainly not a dessert. The Cuban restaurant must be new. Is it not? Perhaps Shaw will chime in about the pizza, or apizza, in New Haven. He's a fan, but I forget offhand of which of the two famous places.

I too find the plastic corks have an incredible grip. I"ve been more aware of the grip on the inside of the bottle neck. The "waiters friend" will only work well if the worm is inserted straight. There's little tolerance for error. In any event, you really need some sort of leverage. In my opinion, a good tug rarely works. I've yet to try a two pronged cork puller on a plastic cork, although at one time that was a favorite. Cork screws, pullers or extractors are a kind of a toy and fun to play with, untill you ruin a cork on a good bottle of wine.

Oxidation is a fault resulting from excessive exposure to oxygen at any time in the life of a wine. Breathing, as I understand it, is the time a wine is alowed to come in contact with air, usually after a bottle is opened and related to "aeration." Both seem related to the value of a cork in preventing the exchange of air. A further explanation of your post would be instructional for me, as well as perhaps others. At any rate, Prial is far more knowledgeable about this than I am and he was the one who rejected the notion that a plastic cork was inferior because it did not allow for air transmission. There may be schools of thought on this issue and I am but a student waiting for better information.

Another pet peeve might be restauranteurs who do not educate their waiters as well as Danny Meyer does. (Hes the owner of GT as well as a few other successful restaurant in NYC, for those who don't know that.) It's not just a matter of training, but of keeping staff aware of changes in the menu and new wines as well as understanding that satisfied diners are a greater assest than short term profits. Traditionally when a waiter recommends something, it more often than not, means it's not selling, over stocked, or about to go bad. The one thing that's been overlooked in this thread, although Rosie allued to it in her opening post, is that some preferences vary from region to region and from diner to diner in the same place. Iv'e heard people complain that the waiter cleared a plate before all of the diners were finished with a course, and I've heard the opposite complaint that the waiter left a dirty plate in front of me while I waited for every one else to finish. I am adamently on the side of those who believe no plate should be removed from the table until all the diners have finished the course. It is the correct fashion in France and in NYC, at least according to every food writer who has made a comment on the subject, but it doesn't seem to be the custom all over the country. Yet another pet peeve is when a young uneducated food writer inadvertanely misunderstands a waiter's cover up for her gaffe at the dining table and reports it all as correct for others to follow. This may account for a growing lack of manners in restaurants and for a less than successful partnership between the waiter and the diner as he must guess the intentions of cusotmer who sends confusing signals. Table etiquette is often more like the rules of the game, than a way for snobs to be snobbish.

861728, I'm happy to continue a dialog. I actually have high hopes that this site will offer many dialogs that are informative or at least thought provoking. Danielle noted she was in France, but I happen to know that she's fluent in French. I think diners and waiters often see each other as antagonists. I see then as partners and I get unduly annoyed when my partner isn't contributing to my enjoyment of the evening. ;) Seriously we bring our prejudices with us, but the truth is that, at least in the restaurants I like the most, waiters do their job a lot better than the diners do at times. I see waiters all the time that are out of line, but I also see diners who should get slapped with a wet towel or worse for the way they act in a restaurant. Mostly I thought the gripes in this thread were legitimate and that you reacted to defensively. Hey, I've just come from a restaurant where I had the tasting menu with no choices and with each dish I was told I had made an excellent choice. Not really, but sometimes I feel that "excellent" coming from the waiter is all show and unnecessary. I have had a sommelier tell me I've made a bad choice though. ;)

861728, I read Danielle's post a bit differently. The sarcasm seemed to be directed towards her husband. The lie, seemed more of a white lie in an attempt to make a point and not a scene. Perhaps I give Danielle the benefit of the doubt, but I suspect "distrub" lost (or gained) something in translation. She was a French woman describing a scene in a restaurant in France. Did you read her later post where she suggested we smile when speaking to waiters and speak in a low voice when making requests for things that should have been attended to without our asking. Did you read Marybitt's very politely worded suggestions along with her gentle expanations. You note you say "excellent" all night, I hope you also listen. I don't sense the same "thinly veiled vitriol" in the majority of these posts and much of the disatisfaction is not aimed at the wait staff. Rosie even went so far as to offer a peeve she's heard from restauranteurs about diners. People may have wierd issues with money and one of them may be that they won't tell their waiter in front of their guests, that they care what the food costs. I've never met a serious diner who didn' t want the speicals spelled out with prices, but then I rarely dine with big shots, so I don't know what they say to waiters. Now I may seem unsympathetic to waiters, but the truth is I find the waiters in my favorite restaurants deserve a better class of diner more often than I find dissatisfaction with my server.

I found the original post more than a bit confusing with references to the French Paradox which may have as much to do with foie gras as red wine and to the BATF regulations for labeling bulk wines. None of that seemed to have much to do with boxed wines and moreover the naturally flavored drinks with only a wine base that I've seen are in bottles in my supermarkets, not in boxes. Hard to find the point of the post. As for boxed wines. A good argument can be made that for a large volume of wine, the box with it's wine really in a collapsable bag inside the box, is better designed than a large jug bottle which will leave large volumes of wine left exposed to the air over a large surface area. Friends of ours who live in the south of France, often buy table wine of this quality in large 5 liter plastic jugs direct from the local "caves cooperative," although they do rebottle it in friendlier sizes in screw top bottles.

To answer Rosie's question about "where do they do this?" the answer is that they do it frequently in France. I agree with Danielle 100%. It's none of the restaurant's business to know who's paying and from which pocket it comes. If either my wife or I want to splurge we can, but we both care about our finances and are both careful about how we spend our money. I'm not being generous if I let her blow her money on some overpriced meal when she might well spend our money on something else. Furthermore, both my wife and daughter have a professional need to know the prices. The assumption they don't, just adds further insult. I find the practice offensive. I once complained to the travel editor of the NY Times about a woman journalist who, in an article about dining in Paris, noted that a restaurant had properly given only her husband a menu with prices. Guess what, that's not the sort of attitude I find reassuring from someone gathering facts to write a professional article. And then there was the time our twelve year old daughter got the only menu with prices. I wondered what sort of pretentious joint I had wandered into, but the recommendations were high for the food and we just ordered. It was our last night in Paris and we were looking for a good meal, not an argument. It was only later when my wife and I spoke about it and wondered what sort of affectation that was not to put prices on the menu, that our daughter said "You didn't have prices on your menu?"