Bux

I've had mineral water with those kind of numbers. Tasted salty to me, but some people love it. They even claim it helps digestion.

I consider this a serious flaw and one that's ruined a good meal here and there. Oddly enough, I've found the problem worse in Europe (France and Spain) than in the US. Restaurants should leave the bottle on the table if they can't afford proper wine service by waiters. I don't have any post 9/11 experience at Bouley, so I can't comment on whether it was an aberration or not the night you were there.

You choose to enter this discussion and I'd say you'd have been a better participant if had first hand experience, even if you were prejudiced against the food before you entered the restaurant. To paraphrase Jonathan, I don't quite see what any of us will get just from the knowledge you've cancelled your reservation. One can decide a restaurant is hot and fashionable and that's why people are talking about it, or we can accept that a restaurant is hot because people are talking ab out it. I suggest we look at who's speaking favorably about El Bulli. I'm afraid to name names because I might get one or two wrong, but my ears picked up when I started to read what world famous chefs were saying about Adria being a genious. His supporters both here and in France among chefs I respect are more numerous than his detractors. You cite a few chefs in DC, but you ignore many other favorites of yours elsewhere. Brains are a delicacy in France, Italy and Spain. Rabbit is much more highly prized a food in those countries than it is here. Rabbit brains would not, in my mind, be a sign Adria was moving in a direction away from his Spanish traditions.

Joe, a lot of our differences, at least when choosing restaurants, boil down to curiosity and risk. Quite frankly, I have a great curiosity and I enjoy that kind of risk--I'm not much for skydiving, bungie jumping or nibbling on wild mushrooms in the forest. We both know our own tastes and interests and others who understand our prejudices can best use what we post here for themselves. As much as I seem to be arguing for you to eat at El Bulli, I appreciate your comment about wasting a table at the restaurant. Unfortunately I know of too many people who want to eat there because it's in the news or they think it's fashionable. I'm left in the peculiar position of really wanting to chase people away from El Bulli, yet somehow feeling an obligation to expose those I think are really interested in food at some deep level. For what it's worth, I'm often asked which is better, El Bulli or Can Fabes, and I'm hard pressed to answer without making some qualifications. There's no doubt Can Fabes would meet the Zagat popularity test a lot quicker, but I just find them hard to compare. I've also no doubt a good barbeque pit in Texas would outscore the French Laundry in the right circles. I would not want to compare them. I don't have much first had experience with really good barbeque, but I'd not find it surprising to learn someone yearns for bbq the way others yearn for the French Laundry, or that one person might want both with the same passion. El Bulli is just another realm of taste. Because much of what Adria does is outside traditional cuisine and often challenges preconceived assumptions of taste, some of what he does may not "taste good" the first time. Other things make you ask why you never thought of the combination. Even the challenging dishes had a curious appeal that belied their distance from comfort food. There is risk though. There's a risk similar to that of dining in a superb restaurant in any foreign culture where there may be a dish that's evolved over hundreds of years pleasing the indigenous taste buds, but without offering any pleasure to yours. What struck me about El Bulli was that when I had a dish that didn't appeal, I was still left with the feeling that the dish was thoroughly developed and mature. Gagnaire leaves me with the same impression, although I've met serious food lovers whose taste I respect, who have hated his food. There are any number of "fusion" chefs who food leaves me with the impression the chef got a bright idea in the morning and served the first rendition to me. You're probably right in not wanting to go there, but it's my nature to encourage people to expand their range of food interests. I can assure you I was much narrower in my appreciation of food outside the range of traditional haute cuisine 25 years ago.

I can't say it was your loss of a pleasurable evening, just your loss the chance to see for yourself what the fuss is all about and the chance to judge the food and the chef for yourself. We all have to know ourself and for you, these things may not have the importance they have for me. I take some pleasure in being opinionated about food, but in order for me to express an opinion, I need experience to draw on. El Bulli, may not be my favorite restaurant in the world, but rabbit brains seems an odd dish to attract attention there. It seems the kind of thing I'd find elsewhere in a country that seems to savor offal meats. The preparation might attract a comment, but not simply the presence. There are many restaurants I'd cross the ocean for and El Bulli is one in which I've really gotten a huge bang for my buck. I'm eager to return a third time. It's a recommendation I make carefully and with great caveat, however. It's not for everyone, but it should be a must for a serious diner who wants to have an opinion about contemporary food. To dismiss an interest in dining there seems to indicate a limited interest in food. I've learned not to let myself miss opportunities by listening too carefully to negative opinions. Tell me it's a loaded bomb and out of fear for my life, I won't go near it, but tell me it's a pretentious restaurant and the food is a joke, and I'm willing to risk a bad meal in return for the chance I'll have a great meal. My budget is probably small for people who eat at the places I love, but I'm still willing to risk the price of a dinner. This attitude was reinforced recently when two reasonable members here expressed very negative opinions about a restaurant near San Sebastian. Their reviews were so bad that we almost cancelled our reservations. We went and had the best meal of the trip there. I'm sure there's someone out there who read those two reviews and is telling friends to avoid the place like the plague though he, himself, has never eaten there.

There have been a couple of reports on Thoumieux here on eGullet. I've expressed an interest in it because of it's old fashioned menu and appearance, but it's not been terrilbly well reviewed here. See Thoumieux in the 7th Paris. Earlier there was a more negative comment in a thread on the Best Neighborhood in Paris.

El Celler de Can Roca Anarchy Photograph: Marina Chang

I recently had an e-conversation with a Spaniard about service in Spain. I'd rather not quote his comments, but I'll repeat the thoughts I expressed, even if they seem a bit out of context. Service in Spain can vary considerably from place to place and that although it's not possible to define restaurant service in Spain in any narrow way, it's almost always different from what it is in France or the U.S. I think service in top Spanish restaurants tends to be rather cold. Perhaps it's as a contrast to the sometimes excessive friendliness you often find in casual restaurants in Spain. French waiters may seem snooty when they become cold. Spanish waiters seem to go the other way. They become servile like robots. I distinctly remember the sommelier at JL Figueras in Barcelona. I assumed she adopted such a serious attitude because she was a woman and because she was a very petite woman at that. It gave me great pleasure to finally see her return my smile. And yes, I think we smiled a lot at MB. I think waiters in first class restaurants in Spain serve with the premise that it's not for them to speak out of turn. I've welcomed it when French waiters took it upon themselves to teach me how to order and eat in France. It's different in Spain. I accept that and work with it. I know that when we had our first dinner at Echaurren in Ezcaray, I would have liked to have known that the dessert I ordered would be the one served on the gastronomic menu the next day. After all, we had announced our intention to have that menu when we reserved our room. I don't think the Spanish have learned to take dining as seriously as the French have, although they clearly take cooking as seriously. On the other hand, the sommelier/maitre d'hotel noticed I had ordered a widely distributed Rioja the first night and took it upon himself to recommend a Rioja from a small producer when we sat down the second night. I think it's too great a leap to suggest the waiters were "afraid" to engage you. The service in Mugaritz was a bit more overtly forthcoming, but the room was almost empty. The service we had at Arzak might better fit your description than that at Berasategui, but I could not say they were "afraid" to engage us. French chefs have long been the focus of international attention and French cuisine has long been one of France's major tourist draws. Serving an international clientele has long been a big business for France and one that's a focus of the French tourist board. Spain has had it's culinary importance thrust on them. I often have the sense the Spanish are content to be left alone and I don't want to get into 20th century history for the reasons that might be a cause. I don't believe I am owed a staff that speaks my language though I appreciated the sommelier's efforts at MB to answer my question in English until Esilda told him she spoke Spanish and could translate for me. Overall, I am still not as comfortable in Spain as I am in France and may never feel as at home there. There are service incidents in hotels more than restaurants that remind me of why I found France more hospitable than Spain forty years ago, but I also find I enjoy Spain more when I learn to take it on its terms.

"The cook being in a whimsical mood, luncheon consisted of endless courses of hors d'oeuvres, followed by a rather wet omelet." Alice B. Toklas Byrdhouse, you've really set out to cover a lot of ground in a week. There's always the question of seeing a little bit of a lot of territory, versus seeing a little of it very well. That's your choice, but let me point out that toll roads in France are rather expensive as is fuel. No matter how you look at it, a lot of your budget is going to be spent on getting around. There's certainly good food and sometimes great food to be found at restaurants without stars. Traveling by car, you will also have the opportunity to get in touch with local food without eating in restaurants. If the weather permits at all, you should consider stopping at local cheese and food shops and eating lunch by the side of the road. That may be rough up north. We've run into snow in Burgundy in the winter and the Massive Central area should probably be avoided. On the other hand, the way from Bordeaux through Toulouse and Carcassonne to Narbonne along the Garonne and Canal du Midi is probably warmer and more temperate than any other non coastal area in France. You should be aware than many hotels and restaurants take as much as a month off around Christmas time, but those that are open should not be full. Reservations should not be needed along the way in most of rural France.

Not the chef of Espaisucre? I've split off a discussion on Can Roca and Girona into it's own thread. It's here.

But in a true democratic survey, your opinion would count as much as one offered by a someone with years of research in dining at all levels all over the world. In fact, it's quite possible that someone eating at one restaurant might rate it tops simply because he's never eaten better food and never eaten at the half dozen restaurants in the city that surpass it, while a diner who's eaten at both might offer a different opinion. My guess is that Zagat would produce a different survey if it required more experience from it's contributors, or required that they eat in a broad range of restaurants.

The RER line didn't look that close on my map, but distances are deceiving on a map even in a city I know well. The fact that in my little Paris par Arrondissement, each arrondissement is drawn to a different scale, doesn't help. I also enjoy being in a residential area in Paris and other cities. I even find much to compensate for being less than centrally located at times.

Indeed. I can relate stories of stifling restaurants and stifling banquet halls. I remember being at a wedding party and wondering if anyone would mind if I opened one the many French doors that led to green lawns and trees outisde. There was only one that was open a crack. As if to answer my call, someone got up, went to the door--and closed it.

Caron de Beaumarchais is a hotel we've considered at times, but it's usually been booked up. It's a fairly well known secret and quite popular with those who know it. As for jeans, not only the French, but all Europeans seem to think of them as much fancier than we do. In Europe they were never known as "dungarees." At Martin Berasategui, there was a couple in matching jean and denim shirt outfits. They were neither French, Spanish or American. They could have been Dutch or Scandinavian. I don't have that good an ear for languages with which I have no familiarity, but I don't think they were speaking Basque (Euskara). My wife found them appallingly underdressed, but saved her real scorn for the guy in jeans and a baseball shirt who was local.

Menton, I didn't see luggage racks in les Magnolias. We had ours in the car. DodinBouffant, it's a real luxury to be able to time a flight so that one leaves with a good meal under one's belt. It doesn't always happen that way. On our last trip, we woke up in San Sebastian and drove to Biarritz to catch our flight home. We had last minute shopping along the way and the flight left too early to have a big lunch. We grabbed some savory quiches and salad at a spot we knew in Bayonne, but also bought some cured meat in San Sebastian that morning and cheese and bread in Bayonne. The latter was both for the flight and to bring home. The lomo (cured pork loin) and cheese were far better than the meal they served on the plane, which mostly went uneaten. In fact we didn't finish all the chevre we intended to eat on the plane. I'm not sure if I followed my own advice here or not, but we fared pretty well. Take whatever advice you can here. A word on our quiches. There's a charming little place with outdoor tables in Bayonne. The name is Tarte Julie and they offer fantastic quiches with orignal fillings. They also offer great dessert tarts. All of these are large and served in good sized slices. We knew this place from a visit years ago and were pleasantly surprised to see it looked the same and offered the same quality. A word of warning. Earlier on our trip this month, we ran across a place by the same name in Paris that appeared to offer a similar menu of savory and sweet tarts and salads. We didn't know if they were part of the same chain, or which came first, or even if they had any connection in spite of the obvious suggestion they were connected. The place in Paris was truly disappointing. The crusts were soggy and the slices unevenly reheated in a microwave. In Bayonne they use a gas fired oven. The service in Paris was disconnected as well. It's up near the Gare Montparnasse and pass it by if you see it. It was the mistake of our trip. Truth to tell, it didn't look that appetizing and it was the memory of the place in Bayonne that drew us in.

I'll agree on the need for a window--maybe even before a shower. In my student days I've done alright washing in a sink or bidet, but the first room I ever had in Paris was on a back court with a wall inches away from a useless window that afforded neither view nor light. It was depressing the way no other room in Paris ever was and I spent many in the sixties in rooms without showers, baths or WCs. I was out of there the next morning and into a room with a window on the street.

Sounds like retro-chavinism to me. How can you not like "scary but cute?"

Either that, or they have a very big lunch. Sunday is a big afternoon dinner day in France, especially in the provinces, and after Paris, it's all provinces, but that comes from a New Yorker. ( The midwest is that part of the US between the Hudson River and the Pacific Ocean. That said in good fun and jest. ) A quick check of Michelin shows a number of restaurants open for Sunday lunch and not dinner, but hardly a sizeable enough number to solidly support my contention.

Sure, but just try driving from the train station to the restaurant. We couldn't find the restaurant, but did find the train station. We tried getting directions to the restaurant and the first person we asked started to tell us how to go and about halfway though she decided you really "couldn't get there from here." It seemed all the one way streets were against us. She did point us in the general direction and we made a big loop and zeroed in a second time and ran smack into the restaurant while we were still looking for the right street. We were a little late for our reservation, but as it appeared tables were not rebooked, there was no problem and we still finished lunch in time to make it to CDG for our flight. It would have been terrible to have missed the flight. Missing lunch was out of the question.

I trust I've not led you astray with my earlier comment. You offered a citation that was just long enough to give focus to your reply. I felt the need to point out your post as the excellent example it was. My objections are to others who cite entire long posts only to add "I agree" or "nice post." Those comments are just as effective without the accompaniment of the the full text of the post that immediately precedes the supporting post. I'm not sure why experienced users do that.

It's a bit remote. With one change, the you can get most places from the local metro stop however. The place appears to be exceptional for the price. I'll take a minute to comment on the very Frenchness of the decoration. In what appear to be smallish rooms, they manage to provide a considerable amount of furniture and then make all the desk and table surfaces useless to the guests by filling them with objects of no use. I remember tiny room once in a small town that was so cluttered with table that there was little room to walk without getting hit in the shins with a table leg or the four poster bed. It was hard to find space on the floor for one of the many lamps in order to make room to open a suitcase anywhere but on the bed. Perhaps I'm being harsh not to credit them for providing a coffee grinder for the occupant's use.

It's been a while since I've had dinner in a bistro where they brought bowls of food like that. A few of those places could restore the good name of all-you-can-eat restaurants. I remember la Regalade in Paris setting down a whole terrine of wonderful country pate as an amuse. You didn't get a plate, but you could help yourself to as thick a slice as you could put on the bread. With some humor and fondness, I recall Mrs. B's first visit to Paris and the time she discovered creme fraiche. She ordered strawberries and cream once for dessert. Alongside her bowl of ripe berries came a bowl with what must have been a liter or two of creme fraiche. From the look in her eyes, I knew she was tempted to push the berrries aside and dig right into the bowl of cream with her spoon. Ah for the simple pleasures of life, amongst which is a whole roasted veal kidney. I haven't had kidneys in a while. I don't even know where I can get them these days in New York and they've been overshadowed in my quest for tripe and andouillette in France.

Taking this strictly on an abstract level and without reference to particular chefs and restaurant for a moment, I'd have to disagree in that your equation accepts the food and labor costs as reasonable, where one chef might drive better bargains from his supplier or another chef might overpay his staff. We'd need to establish intrinsic value for the materials and salaries. Attempting to go down this route is what lower middle brow reviewers often do to establish that consumers are being ripped off, when they compare steak at so much per pound and potatoes at so much per pound without accounting for exceptional quality. Thus trying to be objective about costs is a losing proposition. Someone needs to make an evaluation of the worth of the food and labor. Not all raw materials are equal, but you can't assume the cost is the real value to the consumer. I'm pleased you enjoyed that web site. The ultimate level of designer chutzpah. Communication takes a back seat to the designer's skill. Sloppy code writing is covered by not allowing the site to be rendered in any browser but the annointed one. It's not about how many see the site or get the client's information, it's about making sure those who see it, see the designer in the best light. There's a disconnect between form and function unless the site isn't meant to communicate. It's not the only one of its kind. Berasategui's site comes to mind as well. It is quite beautiful if it will run on your browser, although admittedly I also found it quite elegant and very avant garde.

I remember being warned about doing anything embarrassing like asking for ketchup when we were taken there.

There were two men in Arpege that were not wearing ties. One of them however, appeared to make a point of leaving a tip equal to the price of a hotel room. Few places that don't have four or five crossed forks and spoons in Michelin will have a clientele that is predominantly dressed in ties and jackets. I don't know how many places would actually throw you out anyway, but do you want recommendations of places where the prix fixe menu runs hundreds of dollars if they'll let you in, or do you want more casual places. Paris full of places that serve great food at a vast price range and this forum is full of recommendations. There must be dozens of recommendations posted in the past week. It's unlikely many are going to repost the same names. Thus I'd recommend you peruse recent posts on Paris and then ask specific questions that will let members focus on the kind of restaurant you want. Out of curiosity, those two arrondisements don't abut. Thus they seem a strange choice. Why not a place inbetween. Paris is not that large a city and easy enough to get around in, but it might be more important to know if you want to be centrally located or not. Parts of the 8th are very central and a high rent district. Little of the 15th would be considered central. I don't have any recommendations in those arrondissements and most of the reasonable places I know are more like between 100 and 150 or so, but I think it should not be hard to find what you want in the fifteenth. Actually I think the Raspail Montparnasse has singles for less than 100 euros or did last year. As you get less central it should get easier to find a room for less.