slkinsey

That would be Alaska. Everything I have ever read says that New England has the highest per capita ice cream consumption in the US.

Just to add another data point, I did the following calculation. My assumption was that the volume would not change at all (i.e., that the package would not bulge), which would not be the case in real practice. Before heating Volume 1: 1 liter Temperature 1: 277 kelvin (39F) Pressure 1: 1 atmosphere After heating Volume 2: 1 liter Temperature 2: 330 kelvin (134F) Calculated Pressure 2: 1.19 atmospheres As we can see, the pressure increased by 19%. For the calculations, I relied on The Combined Gas Law Calculator.

I guess you will have to either perform the exercise for yourself or wait to watch me do it. Inventolux, what I think people are having a problem with is that you are making a lot of claims that seem to fly in the face of science, and you refuse to offer any sound support whatsoever other than your own opinion and "you'll just have to wait to watch me do it." This kind of argument simply does not hold water.

I did it that way before I had the capability to cryovac. Didn't seem like rocket science to try doing it that way. I have also done it with heavy-duty ziplock bags with the air sucked out of them. What I think you don't quite understand is that the expanding of the plastic from the air does not necessarily mean that there is significant pressure being built up inside the plastic. Take this example: Put piece of chicken inside a balloon. Blow the balloon up with air. The balloon expands. Do you think that the chicken inside the inflated balloon is under significantly greater pressure than it was under previously? This is to say, do you thinkthe air pressure inside the balloon is significantly greater than the air pressure outside the balloon? Hint: Google for Boyle's Law.

This is where we're breaking down, I think. It doesn't make a "phase shift" from liquid to gas, it just looks like it did!! What's really happening is that extremely tiny (2-20 micron) water droplets are binding with molecules in the air creating a haze. It's not any more "steam" than that cloud floating overhead (weather permitting). Right. Sorry about that. Upon further thought, in this particular case it would be evaporation followed by condensation. It still strikes me, however, that "steam" is nothing more than water gas in a visible form. I gather that there can be other understandings of this word in various fields, but I can't find any general purpose scientific definition that makes a temperature greater than 100C necessary.

I have done this with a significantly warmer water bath (say 150F) and finished the breasts under the broiler to crisp the skin. Even then, the texture was a little mushy and undercooked-seeming for that kind of bird (have done chicken and also guinea fowl). Now, on the other hand, darker-fleshed poultry (squab, etc.) might be okay cooked to a lower temperature. Chicken? No thanks. One of McGee's books probably has the temperature for chicken protein.

It's not clear to me that your definition is necessarily a general-purpose scientific one. Especially given the following: The second part of your definition would seem to be contradicted by the first part when one considers the phenomenon of sublimation. Considering my "football example" above, the water on my scalp would be making a phase shift from a liquid to a gas state via sublimation. And the temperature of that steam would be <100C/212F.

Wait? You're saying you do this in plastic wrap?! Dude, there's no way that builds up any pressure. And yes, I've done that before! I don't care how much string you tie around the package, there is no way any pressure builds up. I mean, how strong do you think the plastic wrap is? Does it not occur to you that any significant internal pressure would easily burst multiple layers of plastic wrap? For that matter, you could wrap the whole package in duct tape, and any significant internal pressure would burst that too. (My apoligies if I am misunderstanding your technique and use of materials.)

That's where one cooks in the steam created by the application of my hot naked body to a mixture of aged spring water and dutch process cocoa. Delicious, if a little sweaty.

I have a hard time believing that any significant pressure is created this way. There is no way that bag isn't going to swell and reduce the pressure. Even if you took the sealed bag, poured concrete around it, allowed the concrete to harden and then raised the whole thing to 135F, I still think the pressure created by the expasion of the duck leg, etc. would be insignificant. You have to try it and see it to believe it. Dude... I've cryovac-ed things and cooked them in a water bath before... and I still don't think it builds up much pressure inside the bag.

Your faucet must be like mine. I'm sure it is. And I am also sure that the steam coming off of our faucet water is not one bit hotter than the water (and within fractions of a second is actually cooler).

I have a hard time believing that any significant pressure is created this way. There is no way that bag isn't going to swell and reduce the pressure. Even if you took the sealed bag, poured concrete around it, allowed the concrete to harden and then raised the whole thing to 135F, I still think the pressure created by the expasion of the duck leg, etc. would be insignificant.

There may be better, more scientific definitions of steam (which I would welcome). Until such time as that definition is offered, this entry from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary may be of some use. According to my reading of this, the visible vapor rising from a hot faucet is, indeed, "steam" -- as is the breath that comes our of your mouth at cold temperatures.

McDowell's definition of "steam" is a very certain kind of definition, and one that does not fit your use. Let me give you another example: I am playing (American) football in Wisconsin in January. It is 4 degrees F outside. When I come to the sideline, I take my helmet off. Steam can be seen rising from my scalp. Are you trying to tell me that the sweat on my head is 212F? That I'm boiling water with my head? Not only that, but I think we can say that the steam rising from my head is demonstrably not hotter than the water on my scalp.

Inventolux, you didn't really address Dave's question, which is: please explain why keeping poultry at 120F for an extended period of time wouldn't tend to grow a lot of bacteria. Also... I'm not sure that I agree with you that "steam is amost always hotter than boiling water." There are many things that can cause water to undergo a phase shift from liquid to gas that do not necesssarily include mean that the water gas will be above the boiling point of water. I think we can agree, for example, that the water mollecules in a 70F room are at 70F and not at 212F. How exactly do you think it would work so that the water inside of a duck leg in a 135F water bath could possibly reach 212F? In fact, I'd be interested to hear an explanation that obeys the laws of physics for how any part of that duck leg could possibly reach any temperature above 135F (assuming that the duck leg was below 135F before being intriduced to the water bath).

AFAIK, Delmonico's is not continuously running, per Holly's question #1 above. My understanding is that it was open from 1834 to 1923, closed for some number of years, and then reopened -- possibly not even in the original location. The new place is a rather pedestrian steak house wanna-be, and not the ultra-fine-dining establishment of the old days. Interestingly, Delminico's at one time issued its own currency. Delminico's is credited with the first examples of Baked Alaska, Chicken a la King, Eggs Benedict, Lobster Newburg, and other famous dishes.

Somehow I think I'd need something larger than a roasting pan if I were going to roll myself in it. Sounds like something to try with the girlfriend, though...

This article has the following to say, which I have never heard before:

Thanks, Sam. The fact that you spent your formative years *in* ice cream & syrup explains a lot. Jeez.. you leave out one comma... On the other hand, maybe you are commenting on my good taste and deliciously cool personality?

During my formative years in New England vanilla ice cream and chocolate syrup (or chocolate ice cream and vanilla syrup -- or, if you could get the guy to do it, a little bit of all four) was called a "black & white." A vanilla was vanilla ice cream/vanilla syrup; a chocolate was chocolate ice cream/chocolate syrup. Of course, for those of you who are not from the region with the highest per capita ice cream consumption in America, we're talking about frappes and not milkshakes. Ask for a chocolate milkshake in Boston and you get a glass of whipped chocolate milk.

Then, Mr. Kinsey, it's only because you haven't noticed. We've eaten together countless times, and I always do the switch. See... that must be why it always takes you two times longer to finish than everyone else at the table! You're eating inefficiently. On the other hand, given that you can put away an alarming amount of food and still remain slender, maybe there's something to this hand-switching thing.

Just for another point of reference... I grew up in Boston, have lived or spent significant time in Texas, Wisconsin, North Carolina and Arizona, and now live in NYC. I have never switched my fork from my left to my right hand and furthermore can't think of anyone I know who does. No one ever gave me any crap about it when I was a kid and no one has ever commented on it now that I am an adult. Camp is, of course, supposed to be a character-building experience. So, if you want to guarantee that your kids will be teased in summer camp, you can't really count on the knife and fork thing to do the trick. I suggest getting a permanent marker and writing your children's names on the waistbands of their underwear (it helps if the underwear is from Sears). That really did the trick for me back in the 70s anyway.

Hmmm... Does that mean that my body utilizes spicy Indian food incredibly efficiently? Because it certainly seems to come out completely digested in about 1/10 the normal amount of time...

As promised, relevant excerpts from On Food and Cooking by Harold McGee, pp 282 = 284.

If you read the section on bread, I'm pretty sure you'll find it all there. Keep in mind, however, that the 12 calories/pound/day counts whether or not you do any activity whatsoever. You burn those calories every day, even if you spend the whole day in bed.