slkinsey

I agree that a tin lining should be safe. The discussion about copper and safety for cooking evolved out of a discussion on "what if" the lining was failing. Hey, knock yourself out. It's your own body and you can take your own risks. I will simply point out, however, that it's possible to ingest too much copper (and lead, etc.) without immediately getting "sick" from it. Especially if you're only using it maybe a few times a month. I cook with my copper cookware on a daily basis, and personally I wouldn't use a copper pan for "regular cooking" if the tin lining had failed. I'd get it re-tinned. Plenty of people eat food that's been cooked in lead-glazed pottery every so often, or drink hard booze that's been stored in a lead crystal decanter for years and don't "get sick" every time they do it. . . but that doesn't mean it's not a bad idea.

Certain things, like high fat/neutral pH carnitas or melted sugar, etc. seem to be okay. . . which is to say that they seem like cooking tasks that do not encourage copper to dissolve into the food. That said, there are a lot of things that are "traditionally" cooked in ways that are poisonous (e.g., cooked in lead-glazed pottery, etc.). This is one of the reasons I always recommend that people buy stainless-lined heavy copper instead of tin-lined. You have to baby tin-lined copper substantially more than even nonstick. No high heat, only soft (wood or thermal plastic) utensils, no scrubbing of any kind, etc. If your pan needs to be retinned after only three uses, it's likely that you either didn't use it gently enough or the pan wasn't tinned particularly well to begin with. It's also the case that a lot of what seems like "bargain priced French copper" is actually not made to be cooked with at all, but is meant for table-side presentation and service (e.g., Mauviel's table service line). Of course, if you don't use it -- problem solved! It's hard to say whether or not that is true. There are several things to consider: You're probably not getting all that much copper into your body via absorption into the skin simply by handling copper with some frequency. So what we're talking about in your case is how much copper you have potentially inhaled in dust form from sanding copper (or perhaps in vapor form?). Unless you're leaving visible drifts of copper dust on your work surface (as, for example, a sculptor who works large pieces of copper might), and unless you're getting this exposure on a daily basis, it's unlikely that you're ingesting a great deal of copper. More than a "regular person," sure. . . but maybe not meaningfully more. From what I have read, it seems highly unlikely that you are being exposed to a copper particulate level in the air (~5,000 ng/m^3) that would make it likely that you would suffer from the various health risks associated with such exposure (metal fever, atrophic changes to nasal mucous membranes, various lung ailments, etc.). Then there is also the issue of the form of the copper. As I mentioned upthread, the soluble copper compounds (i.e., those that are likely to get into your food from cooking in a copper pan) have a greater impact on human health compared to the forms in the copper dust you might be getting from your work. So, I would guess that cooking in copper on a regular basis puts more copper and more of the worst forms of copper into the human body than working with copper jewelry. Of course, I don't fully appreciate the kind or magnitude of your work. If you're regularly working in an environment where copper dust and vapors are filling the air, you might consider protecting yourself. [NB. When I say "cooking in copper" here, we're talking about cooking in unlined copper, or in copper cooking vessels in which the lining has substantially failed. I cook in copper all the time, but in stainless lined copper where the food never contacts the copper.]

There is also Domaine Germain Robin.

In what context - and how much? I'm sure EVERYTHING is poisonous to some degree, but as a jeweler, I have been filing and sanding and inhaling copper for 20 years and have never heard this before... What they said above. Copper is one of those things that is essential is small amounts and poisonous in larger amounts. Copper poisoning is usually an acute condition, but is is possible that it can build up and have a cumulative effect over time. So, for example, cooking tomato sauce in an unlined copper pan might not make you sick. But eating that tomato sauce 5 times a week for six months would be a very bad idea. This is all the more true because soluble copper compounds are the ones that pose the greatest risk to human health. If you think you're ingesting a fair amount of copper (I don't know how often you work with copper or how much of it you might ingest on a regular basis), I'd recommend doing something to minimize your exposure (gloves and a mask, for example).

Interesting drink, Chef Shogun. I think it might do a little better in a Collins glass (tall and narrow) rather than a pint glass, though. That way the gradient will display better, and it's a more elegant drink.

Make sure the copper isn't showing through the tin lining. Copper is poisonous.

The great thing about these places is when you ask about the other items on the menu. For example, here is a conversation I have witnessed a few times: Fat Guy: "Say, what about this noodle dish here. . ." Guy behind the counter: "Fried dumpling! Five for dollar!" Fat Guy: "I see, I see. And how about this congee. . ." Guy behind the counter: "Fried dumpling! Five for dollar!" Fat Guy: "Right. Two orders of fried dumplings." Guy behind the counter: "Fried dumpling! Five for dollar!"

Um. . . I don't know.

Kathleen probably won't know the answer to this, so I'll chime in. The steam wand on my Silvia is outfitted with a custom-mod three hole steam tip from 1st-Line Equipment. This means that, instead of a single jet of steam pointed straight down, there are three jets of steam pointing out at an angle in three different directions (the configuration is triangular). This makes it much easier to achieve the crucial "turn over" of the milk that leads to proper microfoam.

I started a large amount of charcoal with gasoline years ago. Once I got all the burning cinders out of what was left of my hair and clothes, it was a pretty good fire.

I always laugh when I think about the various liquors and ingredients of which Pegu Club is going through unprecedented amounts. I am quite sure, for example, that they are going through as much Rittenhouse rye, Punt e Mes and Green Chartreuse as the rest of the island of Manhattan combined. And I've got to suspect that they're going through a significant percentage of NYC's Laird's applejack now, too.

Do T'afia and Noe have distinct bar areas that people go to, or is it more of a tiny little place where people wait for tables at the restaurant?

They usually jump up on my side of the bed. . .

Off the top of my head, I've seen Rittenhouse, Old Overholt, the Old Potrero bottlings, Wild Turkey, Van Winkle, a couple different kinds of Michter's, and Beam at Pegu. I don't think I've seen Pikesville, but I could be mistaken.

I am in Houston until November 20 doing some performances. Pretty soon the rehearsal schedule will lighten up, and I thought I might like to try a few places in town with real cocktails. I'm primarily looking for quieter places with adult drinks and an upscale atmosphere. No loud college beer and frozen margarita places or pickup joints. I'd like to taste the best Houston has to offer in mixology. Suggestions are welcomed.

One of the cool things they have going at Pegu is a whole array of single-flavor tinctures behind the bar: clove, cinnamon, grains of paradise, pepper. . . you name it. I've been meaning to make a tincture of Sichuan peppercorns to see how that might work. Could be interesting. . . could suck. "Tincture" in this context means, more or less, "the volatile parts of a substance, separated by a solvent (alcohol, in this case)." Audrey can probably supply any specifics, but my understanding is that it's something like: one ounce of whole spice toasted, ground up and mixed with vodka for X hours, then filtered.

Everyone is also getting their response to the announcements out. From Per Se: From ADNY:

For those who are interested, here is the complete list of NYC Michelin restaurants: Manhattan 66 202 Restaurant 21 Club 44 & X Hell's Kitchen 5 Ninth 71 Clinton Fresh Food Abboccato Acappella Acqua Pazza Aix Aki Alain Ducasse [Essex House] -- *** -- 5 couverts red Alamo Alcala Aleo Alto AMA Amuse Annisa -- * -- 2 couverts black AOC Bedford Apizz Aquagrill Aquavit Aroma Kitchen & Wine Bar Artie's Deli Artisanal Asia De Cuba Asiate Atlantic Grill August Aureole -- * -- 4 couverts black Avra Estiatorio Babbo -- * -- 3 couverts black Balthazar Banjara Bar Americian Bar Masa Barbetta Basta Pasta Bayard's Bayou Beacon Becco Bellini Ben Benson's Beppe Beyoglu Bice Biltmore Room Bistro 60 Bistro Cassis Bistro du Vent BLT Fish -- * -- 3 couverts black BLT Prime BLT Steak Blue Fin [W Hotel] Blue Hill Blue Ribbon Blue Ribbon Bakery Blue Ribbon Sushi Blue Water Grill Boathouse Central Park Bobby Van' s Steakhouse Boi Bolo Bombay Talkie Bond Street Bottega Del Vino Bouley -- ** -- 4 couverts black Brasserie Brasserie 81/2 Bread Tribeca Bricco Bridge Café Bruno Bryant Park Grill Bull and Bear [Waldorf Astoria Hotel] Cabana Café Boulud -- * -- 3 couverts black Café Centro Café de Bruxelles Café Gray -- * -- 3 couverts red Café Mogador Café Sabarsky Calle Ocho Canaletto Candle Café Capsouto Frères Casa La Femme North Casa Mono Caviar & Banana Cellini Cendrillon Centolire Cesca Chanterelle Chelsea Bistro China Grill Cho Dang Gol Chubo Cipriani Dolci Circus Cité Compass Craft -- * -- 3 couverts black Craftbar Crispo Cru -- * -- 4 couverts black Cube 63 Da Antonio Da Giacomo Da Silvano Da Umberto Daniel -- ** -- 5 couverts red Danube -- ** -- 3 couverts red Davidburke & Donatella Dawat DB Bistro Moderne Del Frisco's Della Rovere Devi Dim Sum Go Go Diwan Django Donguri Dos Caminos Downtown Cipriani Dylan Prime El Cid El Faro Eleven Madison Park EN Japanese Brasserie ESCA Estiatorio Milos Etats-Unis -- * -- 1 couvert black Etcetera Etcetera Extra Virgin Felidia Fiamma Osteria -- * -- 3 couverts black Fig & Olive Firebird Five Points Fives Fleur de Sel -- * -- 2 couverts black Flor's Kitchen Four Seasons Frankie and Johnnie's Frederick's Madison Fresco by Scotto fresh Fuleen Seafood Gabriel's Gallagher's Gari Gascogne Gavroche Geisha Giambelli 50th Gigino at Wagner Park Gigino Trattoria Giorgione Giovanni Gnocco Gobo Golden Unicorn Good Enough to Eat Gotham Bar and Grill -- * -- 3 couverts black Gramercy Tavern -- * -- 3 couverts black Grand Central Oyster Bar Grand Sichuan Eastern Great N. Y. Noodletown Hangawi Harlem Grill Hasaki Hearth HEDEH Hell's Kitchen Home Honmura An I Coppi I Trulli IAN Ichiro Ida Mae Il Buco Il Cantinori Il Cortile Il Menestrello Il Monello Il Mulino Il Nido Il Palazzo Il Riccio Il Tinello Inagiku Inoteca Iron Sushi Isabella's Ithaka Itzocan Jack's Luxury Oyster Bar Jane Jarnac Jean Claude Jean-Georges -- *** -- 4 couverts black Jean-Luc Jewel Bako -- * -- 1 couvert red Jewel Bako Makimono Joe Allen JoJo -- * -- 2 couverts black Josephs Citarella Jubilee Kai Keens Steakhouse Khyber Grill Kings' Carriage House Kirara Kitchen 22 Kitchen 82 Kittichai [60Thompson Hotel] Koi Koi Komegashi Kurumazushi La Goulue -- * -- 2 couverts black La Grenouille La Mangeoire La Masseria La Paella L'Absinthe Lan Land Thai Kitchen Landmarc Lavagna LCB Brasserie Le Bernardin -- *** -- 5 couverts black Le Bilboquet Le Colonial Le Gigot Le Perigord Le Tableau Le Zie 2000 Le Zinc L'Ecole Lenox Room Les Halles Les Halles Downtown Lever House -- * -- 3 couverts black L'Impero Lo Scalco -- * -- 3 couverts black Luca Lucy Lupa Lure Fishbar Lusardi's Macelleria Magnifico Maloney & Porcelli Mamlouk Mandarin Court March -- * -- 3 couverts black Markjoseph Steakhouse Mark's Marseille Mary's Fish Camp MAS Masa -- ** -- 2 couverts black Matsuri Maz Mezcal Megu Mercer Kitchen [Mercer Hotel] Mesa Grill Metrazur Mexicana Mamma Mezzaluna Mezzogiorno Michael Jordan's Michael's Molyvos Momofuku Noodle Bar Montrachet Morton's Mosto Mr. Chow Nadaman Hakubai Nam Nanni Nebraska Beef Nello NEO Sushi New Leaf Café New Wonton Garden Nice Matin Nice Restaurant Nick & Stef's Steakhouse Nick's Nicole's Nippon Nobu -- * 2 -- couverts black North Square Nyonya O Mai Ocean Grill Oceana -- * -- 3 couverts black Odeon Old Homestead Olives One if by land, two if by sea Ono Oriental Garden Orsay Orso Osteria Al Doge Osteria Del Circo Osteria Laguna Otto Ouest P.J. Clarke's Palm Palma Pampano Paola's Paradou Park Avenue Café Park Bistro Park Terrace Bistro Pastis Payard Pearl Oyster Bar Peasant Peking Duck House Pellegrino's Pepolino Per Se -- *** -- 5 couverts red Periyali Persepolis Petrosino Petrossian Phoenix Garden Picasso Piccolo Angolo Picholine -- * -- 3 couverts black Pietro's Ping's Seafood Pipa Place, The Po Pongal Pongsri Thai Porcupine Post House Prune Public Pure Food and Wine Quatorze Bis Raffaele Raoul's Red Cat Remi Rene Pujol Riingo Rocking Horse Rosa Mexicano Rothmann's Roy's New York Sachiko's on Clinton Salt San Domenico NY San Pietro Sapa Sapphire Sarabeth's Sardi's Savore Savoy Scaletta Scalini Fedeli -- * -- 3 couverts black Schiller's Liquor Bar Second Avenue Deli SEO Sette Mezzo Sevilla Shaan of India Shaburi Shaffer City Shanghai Pavilion Shun Lee Palace Siam Inn Silverleaf Tavern Smith & Wollensky Snack Soba Ya Solo Sparks Steak House Spice Market Spigolo Spotted Pig -- * -- 1 couvert black Stanton Social Strip House Suba Suenos Sugiyama Sunrise 27 Surya Sushi Ann Sushi of Gari Sushi Seki Sushi Yasuda Sushi Zen Sushiden Sushiya Sweet-n-Tart Restaurant Tabla Table XII Tamarind Tao Taormina Taste Tasting Room Teodora Thaiso'n Thalia The Capital Grille The Harrison The Manhattan Ocean Club The Mermaid Inn The Modern -- * -- 3 couverts black The Sea Grill The Steakhouse at Monkey Bar Tocqueville Tomoe Sushi Town Trata Estiatorio Trattoria Dell' Arte Triangolo Tribeca Grill Trio Triomphe Tropica Turkish Kitchen Tuscan Square Union Square Café V Steakhouse Va Tutto Vatan Vento Veritas -- * -- 2 couverts black ViceVersa Vivolvo Vong -- * 2 -- couverts black Wallsé -- * -- 2 couverts black Water Club WD-50 -- * -- 2 couverts black Wolfgang's Steakhouse Wondee Siam II Woo Lae Oak Xing Yama Yangpyung Seoul Zarela Zebu Grill Zoë Zutto Brooklyn Al Di La Applewood Areo Banania Café Blue Ribbon Sushi Chestnut DuMont Elia Five Front Garden Café Henry's End Locanda Vini & Olii Noodle Pudding Osaka Pearl Room Peter Luger -- * -- 1 couvert black Queen Quercy River Café Saul -- * -- 2 couverts black Savoia Sea Stone Park Café The Grocery Tuscany Grill Bronx Riverdale Garden Roberto's Restaurant Queens 718 Restaurant Bann Thai Brick Café Jackson Diner KumGanSan Malagueta Piccola Venezia Sapori D'Ischia Sripraphai Taverna Kyclades Tournesol Trattoria L'Incontro Water's Edge Staten Island Aesop's Tables American Grill Carol's Café The Parsonage

I don't know for sure, but I would be surprised if it is possible to purchase "regular supermarket milk" that hasn't come from cows that have been treated with rBGH. If one is avoiding rBGH milk (which just so happens to come from industrial megafarms) and also doesn't choose organic simply for the sake of being organic (thus eliminating non-local organic megafarms), that equals a preference for local small farm milk.

Right. I would, for example, choose "conventional" milk from a small local dairy farm over "organic" milk from a megafarm in California. That said, it is usually the case that small local farms are "organic" or "natural" or whatever, and unlikely to use antibiotics (never mind something like rBGH). This may be for a variety of reasons, not least of which is the fact that the small dairy business is not a huge money-maker and things like "organic" and "grass fed" and "natural" help justify the higher prices these dairies need to charge to stay in business. Unfortunately, "our milk is worth twice the price because tastes 1000 times better" doesn't cut it with most consumers.

Yes, I agree. Any one of the thee points I mentioned (and I am sure there are others worth considering) can of course be approached from a scientific as well as moral or political standpoint. And let us not forget the culinary standpoint, which is the basis on which I stand against rBGH milk. Not because I believe that the use of rBGH necessarily produces milk that doesn't taste as good, but rather because I believe that the goals of those who use rBGH do not commonly align with the goal of making a milk with superior taste. I personally feel that there is no convincing evidence that drinking milk from cows treated with rBGH can be associated with any health risks that would not be associated with drinking milk from cows that were not treated with rBGH, all other things being equal. I further feel that making a choice to drink organic milk based solely upon the use or non-use of rBGH is not an informed decision. This is not to say, however, that there aren't plenty of good reasons to drink organic milk -- mostly having to do with the fact that these cows often have a better diet (perhaps even grass) and are likely to be on a smaller, more slocal farm, etc. But, I think there would be no meaningful difference between milk from a small local, grass-fed dairy farm that used rBGH and the identical farm next door that did not.

There has been some interesting discussion here, and I'd like to see it continue. In the hope of fostering better and more interesting discussion, I would like to offer the following moderator's note and ask you all to read and understand what I am saying before continuing here: One goal of the eG Forums is to engender a free and lively exchange of thoughts and ideas relating to the subject of food. To this end, Society members are expected to comport themselves with all due civility when engaging in discussion and debate in the eG Forums. In particular, members are cautioned to address the substance of a counterpart's arguments in a debate, and never to make ad hominem arguments or personal attacks. That said, not all opinions and arguments are equal or equally well-supported in the eyes of science. This is something that should be considered before throwing one's hat into the ring. We should understand that questioning the foundation of a counterpart's arguments is not necessarily a personal attack if there is a reasonable basis for that assertion, and endeavor to meet the challenge rather than taking offense. Likewise, we should take pains to frame our challenges and comments in language that is respectful and not inappropriately confrontational, and to make sure that we are not putting words into our counterpart's mouth. At the same time, we should own up to the logical implications and extensions of the arguments we are making. Scientific discussions can be a little rough-and-tumble, and strong points are often made that might offend those who are not used to this style of debate. Those who are not used to this style of debate should keep this in mind and try not to take things personally. Those who are should keep this in mind and try to tone it down just a bit. Now, let's get back to rBGH. At this point I will take just a moment to frame the discussion. When we are talking about rBGH, there are several aspects that may be considered: The direct impact on human health. "Is drinking milk from cows treated with rBGH bad for me?" The effect of using rBGH on the health and welfare of the cow. "Is rBGH bad for the cow?" The other effects of using rBGH on the environment. "Is rBGH contributing to antibiotic-resistant bacteria, etc?" I've seen many of these separate arguments combined in this thread in ways that confuse the core issues, and I think we would be well-served to keep in mind that they are not connected.

This stuff is the bomb! I was introduced to it by Patrick O'Sullivan, who runs the bar at Seppi's in the Parker Meridien. He is one of the City's foremost experts on Irish whiskey, and a stop at Seppi's will always be profitable for someone with an interest.

I was able to taste the full range of Van Winkle bourbons at a press event for the Big Apple Barbecue Block Party, including an 18 year they make special for Blue Smoke. My favorite was the 15 year. They bottle it at something like 107 proof, and the extra intensity of flavor makes a big difference.

This is actually really tasty. I have a couple of good books on Italian Jewish cooking (believe it or not, there was a time when Italy was a center of European Judaism). One of the best recipes in the Italian Jewish tradition was one where you would roast a chicken for the meat course, and for the pasta course you would simply deglaze the roasting pan and toss the drippings with fresh pasta and a little parsley. I have often made this either as two separate dishes or by pulling the chicken meat apart and tossing it together with the fresh pasta and drippings. The best place to keep it is in a tightly covered jar in the freezer. There, it will keep more or less forever. I'm like the king of rendered animal fats. In my freezer at the moment can be found jars of rendered duck fat, goose fat, chicken fat, beef fat, bacon fat and lard. All of these I have rendered myself except for the lard (it's difficult to get enough pork fat to be worth rendering, and Faicco's pork store renders some beautiful lard). I have in the past kept rendered lamb fat (too strong flavored to be useful) and rendered ham fat (tasty!). This, of course, in addition to the various un-rendered animal fats I have stuck back there in the form of guanciale, fat back, etc.