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slkinsey

eGullet Society staff emeritus
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Posts posted by slkinsey

  1. I believe a big culprit is the cheese. Not even the quality--the quantity.

    For some reason far too many New Yorkers are in love with the notion that the more cheese on a slice (or pie) the more "value" they are getting.

    I wonder how much pizza-eating you have done outside of the general Philadelphia-to-Boston area. I ask this simply because, although I agree with your basic premise that the pizza here is often burdened with too much cheese and toppings, I think this is much more prevalent around the country in general than it is in the Philadelphia-to-Boston area, where the pizza tends to be thinner and less copiously topped. Think of one of those disgusting Pizza Hut "meat lover's" pizzas. . . that's considered standard in most of the country.

    To me the oven--coal or gas fired or whatever is last on the list of priorities (coal may be as FG notes, vastly over rated). The real starting point is the assemblage process--the proportion of ingredients.

    I absolutely agree with your premise that the assemblage and proportion (and quality) of the ingredients is of primary importance. If you don't have that right, you can never achieve a superior pizza. However, it is fact that wood or coal fired retained heat ovens are capable of producing certain effects that stainless steel deck ovens cannot. So, for example, as much as I love the pizza at Di Fara, the actual crust itself just doesn't match up to, say, Patsy's East Harlem.

    I wonder if anyone else has some thoughts as to why cheese has become the "key" ingredient in pizza. Why do we emphasize it so much???

    I have a theory about this. From a post in the NYC Pizza Favorites thread:

    I have a theory about the way people think about pizza. 

    For some people, pizza is CRUST (with some stuff on top).  This is the way I think about pizza, and the way I think most Italians think about pizza.  For this reason, the idea of "bagel pizza" or "French bread pizza" doesn't make any sense to me.  Where's the crust?  For other people, perhaps most in America, pizza is PIZZA TOPPINGS (on top of something).  This is where the "piled to the sky = good" philosophy comes from.  I'm not making a judgment here... just pointing out that there are differences.

    One thing that happened to a lot of Italian foods that came to America and became Italian-American foods is that they became more about the condiments than the base ingredients.  Take pasta, for example.  In Italy, pasta dishes are about the pasta and the sauce is there as an accent to enhance the pasta.  In America, however, pasta dishes have become much more about the sauce than the pasta -- the pasta is simply a vehicle for the sauce.  For this reason, the typical American pasta dish has around triple the amount of sauce compared to the typical Italian pasta dish.  To make another example about pasta, an Italian would never call a dish "lasagne" that didn't actually contain lasagne, whereas in America we would have no problem layering up sauce and cheese with thin slices of potato and calling the result "potato lasagna."

  2. In the Savoy era, there are a lot of cocktails that are fairly similar but have different names. Back then, there was no calling something a "Perfect Scotch Manhattan" or a "Perfect Rob Roy" or a "Calvados Sidecar" or whatever. These would (and did) all have different and unique names. Calvados, Cointreau and lemon at 2:1:1 was called the Royal Jubilee, for example.

    If the proportions changed enough to fundamentally change the taste of the cocktail, it would often have a different name. Thus, in Savoy we have the Allen (Special) Cocktail, consisting of 2/3 Plymouth gin, 1/3 maraschino and 1 dash of lemon juice, and the Aviation Cocktail, consisting of 2/3 dry gin, 1/3 lemon juice and 2 dashes maraschino.

    Sometimes just the addition of bitters created a change of name. For example, the Astoria Cocktail is 2/3 gin, 1/3 French vermouth and 1 dash of orange bitters, while the Martini (Dry) Cocktail is 2/3 dry gin and 1/3 French vermouth. And the Hoffman House Cocktail is 2/3 Plymouth gin, 1/3 French vermouth and 2 dashes of orange bitters.

    The last cocktail above is illustrative of the understanding that, with fairly elemental combinations such as gin-and-French-vermouth, even a change in the base spirit is sometimes enough to make a completely different cocktail.

  3. As JohnL points out, it's the cheap table wine that they're starting to limit.

    Personally I'd rather drink Don Miguel Gascon Malbec (okay, from Argentina rather than Chile) at around ten bucks a bottle than just about any French table wine at a similar price.

  4. Lyle's Golden Syrup is not what you want. Lyle's is a golden syrup, which is more or less just a superaturated sucrose simple syrup (partially inverted, which is why it doesn't crystallize). The main point is that it is fairly highly refined.

    The kind of cane syrup you want* is made simply by reducing sugar cane juice. If you can't buy a bottle of cane syrup such as Petite Canne from Martinique, your best bet is to make a rich syrup using dehydrated sugar cane juice from a health food store.

    * not the same kind as Steen's cane syrup.

  5. Interesting idea. So, let's see:

    - Landmarc: consistently good food and a great value. One of the great places to go at 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning.

    - New Green Bo: I can't really add much to what Steven said, especially since I often go there with him.

    - Grand Sichuan International Midtown: the best Sichuan in the City, IMO, and this is really my favorite style of Chinese cooking -- dark and full-flavored, fiery spices, not to saucy, lots of Sichuan peppercorn. I'd say it runs to outstanding around 90% of the time, and the other 10% ain't bad.

    - Churrascaria Tropical in Astoria: the salad bar isn't nearly as lavish as it is at Plataforma, but the meat is as good or better. More to the point, at less than half the price of admission plus six dollar caipirinhas, it's the go-to rodizio in the City for me.

    - Sripraphai: Seems like every time I go there, I am inspired to try an outstanding new dish I hadn't had before. So far above every other Thai place in the City it's ridiculous.

    - Dumpling House on Eldridge: everything Steven said. It's especially fun to go there for some dirt cheap pre-cocktail dumplings before heading down the block for fifteen dollar drinks at Milk & Honey.

    - Kang Suh: somehow, when I'm on Manhattan's Korean row, I find myself going back to this restaurant. The largest menu and the most reliably good execution, I think. Too bad that they don't use live coals any more, but bbq isn't actually my favorite part of Korean cooking.

    - Patsy's East Harlem: there are other places (mostly Neapolitan style) I like better, but there's nothing like Patsy's for a traditional old-NYC coal-fired pizza. I go minimalist on the toppings and I go for the char. Other people have other priorities when it comes to pizza, but there's something I like about the crust at Patsy's.

    - Pegu Club and Flatiron Lounge: I know these aren't restaurants (although one could make a decent meal out of Pegu's bar snack menu), but they aren't exactly regular old bars either. Considering that I go to these two places more than I do all the restaurants on my list combined, I think it makes sense to include them. Simply two of the best cocktail spots in the world.

    - Noche Mexicano: this breaks Steven's rule about local places of convenience, but I believe the Mexican food here is worth some amount of traveling for -- especially the posole on weekends.

    Interesting for me to note that, despite the fact that I am a major Italophile, there are no Italian restaurants on my list. I guess I haven't been able to find any affordable Italian restaurant that I feel is worth a regular trip. This may have to do with the fact that it's difficult to find an affordable Italian restaurant that can do substantially better than I do myself at home.

  6. Does any one produce premium vodkas for flavor, or is the ideal always to taste like nothing? In that case, why not Everclear?

    One dirty little secret of the vodka business is that most of it starts out more or less as Everclear -- which is to say, as relatively unrefined high proof alcohol delivered in big tanker trucks from Archer Daniel and the like. The vodka companies rectify (a process of selective re-distillation) and filter the raw alcohol to remove various "impurities," and then dilute the spirit down to bottle proof.

    There are some small, artisanal companies that do less aggressive rectification and filtration so that some of the flavor of the primal ingredient comes through. Whether this is really "vodka" instead of a highly refined eau de vie is hard to say. There is, of course, a certain market advantage right now to calling something "vodka," but just because they call it that doesn't make it so. After all, what is gin if not "juniper and citrus-infused vodka?"

    While vodka is really a blank canvas, if you drink it straight (whether up or on the rocks) it does have subtle flavor.

    Another dirty little secret of the vodka business is that, after they rectify and filter the raw high proof alcohol, they are allowed to "add back in" a certain small percentage of things like glycerine and flavoring. These additives, along with the flavor of the water* used to dilute the alcohol down to bottle proof, are largely responsible for any subtle flavors present in the spirit.

    * When you start with 95% abv vodka out of the still, it is diluted by more than 50% with water in order to bring it down to the typical 40% abv bottle proof. So there is more water than spirit in a bottle of vodka.

  7. Twenty-three bucks for 1.75L comes to around thirteen bucks a liter, which is a pretty good price. Tito's is a fine vodka, tasting pleasantly of nothing.

    Frankly, once you get over the hump of rotgut into decent quality vodka, I don't really see the point of spending cognac prices on vodka. There are plenty of less expensive vodkas out there that are every bit as good as the so-called "super-premium" brands. To make a direct comparison, Astor Wines has Tito's in a 1L bottle for 17 dollars. Grey Goose will run you $27/L. Belvedere costs $34 for a liter (not that much less than Courvoisier VSOP!).

    I certainly can't see any reason why Grey Goose or Belvedere are worth any more money than Tito's. But, on the other hand, a 1L bottle of Luksusowa will run you only $11, and I don't see any reason why Tito's is worth another six bucks a liter.

  8. I was curious about the science involved, myself, and online sources seem merely to repeat what bloggers have been told in the past: carbonated water "lightens" batter, whether for tempura, stuffed zucchini blossoms, or various types of pancakes/crepes.

    Well, that (the "lightening" bit) makes sense to me. You're introducing bubbles to the batter, and these bubbles expand as the batter is cooked to provide extra leavening. Unlike, say, using whipped egg whites, the use of carbonated liquid doesn't contribute any extra structure to the finished product (therefore, even "lighter" is possible).

    What puzzles me WRT using carbonated liquid for crêpes is that one generally doesn't want them to puff up like that. That, to me, is one of the crucial differences bewteen a crêpe and a thin pancake (the latter is leavened, the former is not).

  9. How do you mean, "flight trays?" And is there anything that would make one tequila-specific?

    Most of the time when I have had spirit "flights" in a restaurant (Babbo, for example, does a grappa flight) it's just been in glasses on the table.

  10. It's definitely a conversation place. That said... there is no such thing as a "conversation place" Manhattan bar on Friday or Saturday nights, and there are times it can get somewhat full, if never exactly "crowded."

    But if you go there on a Tuesday or Wednesday, for example, you should be fine.

  11. The Jimmy isn't currently on the menu, but they can certainly make it for you. I just had one the other night.

    Honestly, your best bet is to go there, sit at the bar, look over the menu and talk to the bartenders about what you might like. That's the beauty of a place like Pegu Club.

  12. What vegetable would all of you recommend?

    Ask if they have pea shoots. If they do, then get them stir fried with garlic. They also do a good baby bok choi in a similar style. Look under "seasonal vegetables."

    I also like the "green parot with red mouth" which is an interesting cold dish. Spinach leaves and stems (separately) are layered on top of each other and drizzled with red oil.

    I like the Sichuan pickled cabbage with red oil appetizer, but it is very spicy. You can also get it without the red oil. At a buck fifty, you almost can't afford to not order it.

    There are several good potato dishes.

    Sour string beans (actually long beans) with minced pork is excellent.

    The preserved trunip [sic] Sichuan style is a nice spicy appetizer.

    And, if you want to eat Klingon food, try the spicy and reppery [sic] mung bean noodle appetizer.

    The vegetable dishes are also a great way to temper the spice of some of the other dishes.

  13. . . .When you note that DiFara's also uses a regular pizza oven, the whole coal/wood thing sort of gets thrown into question. I mean, why can't everybody make pizza like this? No special equipment required.

    I think you answer this question yourself below:

    Just a really nice crust with a thin, crunchy bottom layer and a sourdough-like interior (I'm guessing there's some preferment at play here, but maybe not), and good sauce, barely enough cheese to tell if the cheese is good or not, and good sausage and pepperoni...

    (Emphasis mine.) I can't stress how important this can be in making a good pizza at any level, regardless of the quality of the ingredients. Loading on the cheese (and any other toppings) is a sure-fire way to a mediocre pizza -- especially when you consider that it's often a huge pile of crappy cheese. Also, if you are using crappy cheese, and I'm not saying Johnny's does, using a light hand with the cheese and a decent sauce can go a long way towards getting the most out of the ingredients. And, you're right. . . there's no reason 75% of the pizzeria in the greater New York City area can't be turning out pizza on this level. In fact, I think overall quality would take a huge leap up if pizzeria owners simply started using half the cheese they're currently using.

    Sounds like an interesting place.

  14. Lobsters and crabs "have some degree of awareness, feeling pain and having the ability to learn," Whole Foods said in a statement.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/business/story/...8p-360374c.html

    I would argue that the preponderance of the best scientific evidence we have on lobsters does not agree with this assertion. See, e.g., this thread.

    I remember reading the issue is really that a lobster can spend six months in that awful environment. Maybe if the economic model allowed for a shorter period from catch to table, this wouldn't be such an issue.

    I don't know how long they spend in tanks. I would assume that it might, in some circumstances, be as many as six months. However, again, we have to be careful not to anthromorphize here. We're talking about a situation that is not dissimilar from keeping a big box of scorpions or cockroaches. This is to say that what seems like an "awful environment" to you and me, may not be so awful to the lobster.

    The one thing I do know about lobsters is that they apparently stop eating once they are in captivity (sorry, I don't have a citation). This places serious limitations on how long lobsters can be kept in tanks prior to finding their way to the table, and the quality if the meat declines the longer the lobsters spend in the tank.

    On the other hand, there is no substitute for live lobster. Frozen or cooked and refrigerated is not even an approximation, even to lower quality too-long-in-the-tank lobster. So, what is one to do? If we decide to eliminate lobster tanks, that would be fine with me, I suppose. I'm from New England and I live in NYC. I have plenty of access to short-time-out-ot-the-ocean lobster. But, although they can be found as far south as North Carolina, the range of decent quality Homarus americanus is more or less from here and North (with quality generally increasing in the colder waters of the North) on the East coast only. Eliminate lobster tanks, and Keller's sous vide lobster will only be available at Per Se. None of the fancy California restaurants will be able to serve lobster, lobster will be unknown in the better dining establishments of Chicago. People in Texas will never be able to eat lobster. Etc.

    Interestingly, lobster was once known as trash food for the servants. At one time there was a New England law that you could feed your servants lobster only three times a week. Anything more was considered inhumane. It was only with the development of modern transportation (and live tanks) that lobster came to be considered a luxury food.

  15. Yea, the beauty of carbon steel is that it's so inexpensive it's not a big deal to buy a specialized pan (omelette, fish, crêpe, etc.) that really isn't useful for anything else.

  16. Some good points all around here. For me, small and local has always been more important than organic. But, on the other hand, I am in a demographic where I can afford to pay for that sort of thing.

    Speaking more on the subject of local, rancho_gordo brings up an interesting point with respect to WF selling organic cherries from Chile and that sort of thing. This makes me wonder, however, just how much we can really feed this country with strictly local foods. For someone living in, say, Wyoming or Minnesota, the selection of available local fresh produce is not very good most of the year. It is, of course, easy for someone living in or around the Central Valley to proclaim that we should all be eating fresh and local year-round, because those things are available most of the year in that area of the country (that said, especially in the Southern part of the valley, much this agriculture is hardly what I'd call "sustainable" considering the effect of all that irrigation).

    So... is there really that much difference between someone in Austin buying organic cherries grown in Chile and someone from Chicago buying organic lettuce grown in the Valley? I'm not sure either way, but it is a question that's been on my mind, especially since I don't think many people are aware of the ecological issues of Central Valley agriculture (and that's where much of the year-round American-grown produce comes from). Should we all be eating preserves in the off-season? That's got to be a pretty tough situation for someone who lives in a colder climate.

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