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slkinsey

eGullet Society staff emeritus
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Posts posted by slkinsey

  1. I think terms like homemade/housemade imply the entire process is done in-house, from raw (or reasonably close to raw) materials. Fresh, on the other hand, just implies the product was prepared recently enough to be at its peak quality.

    I think it depends on what the usual practices and standards are for the product. What makes "house made" beer? Do you have to malt the grains yourself? Do you have to grow them yourself? Most of us would agree that this level of processing (i.e., having someone else malt the grains) passes the test. So there is some question as to what is appropriate for each product.

    How does this house "made" mozzarella compare with other fresh mozzarellas? What are the cost differentials among these? The provenance is unimportant to me if the product is correct and if the price is within the range of its competition.

    I've bought many "fresh" mozzerellas that tasted over-the-hill to me. If the house-finished polly-o product offers the clean, fresh cream taste of good fresh mozzerella, what they call it is not an issue with me. I will pay a premium if it is actually superior in taste.

    This seems to be the rub, as far as I am concerned. If it's true that Casa Della Mozzarella is using the same prepared curd to make their mozzarella as Fairway is using to make theirs, then the importance of curdling your own milk approaches nil. The difference in quality between CDM and Fairway is so wide and striking that it would be impossible, I believe, for a NYC maker curdling its own milk to similarly differentiate itself as being that much better than CDM. Quite the opposite has been my reaction, as there are a variety of locally-produced mozzarella cheeses one can purchase (e.g., at the greenmarket or at Whole Foods) that clearly come from the makers' own milk supply and they can't hold a candle to the mozzarella from Casa Della Mozzarella. Now, on the other hand, if it turns out that one of CDM's secrets is that they make their own curds from milk, then I believe we have our answer. So it all depends on whether the best mozzarella makers in the area really are using purchased curds.

    As for "fresh" mozzarella, this is really more a style over here than it is a designation of whether the mozzarella was made from end-to-end by the same maker, or even whether the cheese is all that fresh.

  2. The question, I suppose, is in how much difference the creation of the curds makes to the finished product. When it's a fresh, non-aged pasta filata cheese that is ideally consumed with in hours of being spun, it's unclear that there is much to be gained from curdling your own milk. Rather, if most everyone is using curds from the same producers, it's quite clear that technique, temperature and age make all the difference in the world.

    I wouldn't say that starting mozzarella from curds instead of milk is in any way analogous to starting bread from pre-mixed dough. I'd say it's more like starting with pre-milled flour, which is what everyone does. It seems likely that starting with milk (or even starting with cows) instead of curds could result in even better mozzarella if all other things were maintained at the highest levels. But it seems likely that growing/milling your own grain into flour might result in similar potential improvements in bread.

  3. The short answer is that no, there are no acceptable substitutes. On the other hand, depending on the cocktails you make, a bottle of Chartreuse could easily last a year or more (they are typically used in amounts of 1/2 ounce or, usually, considerably less). There are also not so many cocktails that call for the yellow variety.

  4. I'm going to try out the caramelised onion soup, I don't have any Mason jars but do have this sort of thing, will that be ok? I notice that in the instructions, it says not to tighten the jar too much, not sure I can do that with these, they are tight closed once you clip them shut.

    Link to the type of jar

    This type of jar is only suitable for water-bath canning (for, e.g., tomatoes) and not for pressure-canning, which would melt the gasket.

  5. The 2.5 mm copper/stainless bimetal is 2.3 mm of copper and 0.2 mm of stainless. Other methods use a much thicker layer of stainless (for example, All-Clad's stainless layers are about 0.45 mm).

    How did you obtain the All Clad information? I asked All Clad a number of years ago and was told that the information on thicknesses of the metals was 'proprietary'.

    1. I know some people with a basis to know the metal thicknesses used.

    2. Back in the old Usenet days when All-Clad didn't have much competition and most people hadn't figured out that cookware could be compared on this basis, they were a lot more forthcoming with this sort of information.

  6. Well, yes, it's possible to do if one has the knowledge to know that for curved lip stainless-lined copper cookware by such-and-such makers a 2.5 mm thickness is best approximated by being a touch thinner than two pennies, but 2.5 mm straight lip stainless-lined copper cookware by such-and-such other makers is better approximated by being a touch thinner than two dimes, except that 2.0 mm curved lip stainless-lined copper cookware by such-and-such other makers is also best approximated by two dimes, and by the way some manufacturers make both curved lip and straight lip cookware and some manufacturers make cookware at 2.5 mm and 2.0 mm -- all assuming, of course, that the different shapes of flared rims produced for the different brands have the same amount of distortion at the edge.

    The point I'm making is that it's more complicated to figure out what you're getting than walking around with a pocket full of coins. If it's me and I like to make a practice of walking around garage sales and thrift stores looking for inexpensive copper cookware, I'm investing the 10 bucks in pocket calipers rather than relying upon the change in my pocket.

  7. Falk Culinair makes the copper/stainless bimetal used by Bourgeat (not to mention Mauviel, etc.). So we know for sure that the Bourgeat stuff is 2.5 mm thick. We also know this because their literature now describes it as being 2.5 mm thick. "1/8 inch" was just the most convenient approximation of 2.5 mm into Imperial/US Customary units, since we are used to subdividing the inch by successive halving (1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16). A more accurate approximation would be to call it 1/10 of an inch. But that would seem smaller than it actually is to most people.

    The fact that the flared edges measured "fractionally more than 1/8 inch thick" despite the fact that we know these pans are 2.5 mm thick (i.e., smaller than 1/8 inch thick) shows how much distortion is produced at the edge when it is pressed into this shape. If the Bourgeat piece were truly 1/8 inch (3.2 mm!) thick, we would expect a far greater difference in weight between the two frypans than the 6.2 ounce difference you recorded -- which most likely due to the fact that the Bourgeat pan is 1/4 inch taller than the Falk pan.

  8. For some uses like skillets, 2.0mm isn't so bad for the reason mentioned above--heat distribution is still fairly even for the kind of use a skillet should get, where you're moving the food most of the time, but it's light enough to handle with one hand.

    I wouldn't dispute that there are occasions where the advantages of 2.5 mm copper/stainless bimetal aren't needed. But I would assert that, if one is going to make the compromise of going down from a 2.5 mm to a 2.0 mm frypan on the premise that you're "moving the food most of the time, [and] it's light enough to handle with one hand," why not just use carbon steel for a fraction of the price (not to mention a fraction of the maintenance hassle)?

    Everyone makes their own economic determinations, of course. Personally I wouldn't be interested in the maintenance hassle of copper at anything less than full thickness. The admonition I give to those who might like to purchase copper cookware at garage sales and thrift stores, etc. is simply to make sure they know what they're getting. If you're happy with 2.0 mm, then that's great. But if what you want is 2.5 mm, don't think it's so easy to tell what you're getting.

    Umm, if you have two pennies to rub together, that makes 3.1mm, about the thickness of the older Dehillerin and Gaillard sautes. And if you're a tightwad like me in not tipping the barrista, you also have two dimes (2.7mm) with which to compare. Pan about a nickel-thick? 2mm. Closer to 2 dimes? 2.5mm

    And unless the pan's rim is flared and finish-ground on a bias, i.e., if it is squared off, it's very easy to compare the pan with a coin.

    Most rims nowadays are, however, flared and/or finish-ground on a bias. To the best of my knowledge, only Mauviel (and only certain lines of Mauviel) have rims that are straight and squared off. As you acknowledge, it's nontrivial to compare the thickness of a coin (or anything else, for that matter) to the thickness of a flared/bias-finished rim.

  9. The skin will definitely add flavor and body.

    Personally I would encourage you to make stock with the bones and trimmings. Aren't you going to want to make gravy? What better to use than turkey stock? If you have a pressure cooker it only takes 1.5 - 2 hours.

  10. Just to clarify, when you cook onions low and slow to 'caramelize' them, are we talking mainly about the sugars caramelizing, and less of maillard reactions?

    No, it's exactly the opposite. You are Maillardizing the onions. After you have done this, you can turn up the heat to high and caramelize some of the sugars. But caramelization doesn't happen until the temperature is fairly high, and it happens at different temperatures for different sugars: fructose begins at 110C/230F, galactose, glucose and sucrose begin at 160C/320F and maltose begins at 180C/356F. As you may imagine, you really only only have a chance of caramelizing the fructose in a wet food like onions.

  11. Does anyone serve their TG meal as separate courses, as opposed to the 'mountain of food on the table smorgasbord'?

    I do! I never liked the "everything on the table at once" paradigm. I have at various times, mostly as a challenge to myself, expanded and ramified Thanksgiving to 9 or 10 courses -- including a famous (infamous?) course of "brussels sprouts four ways" that included brussels sprout creme brulee. Nowadays I'm likely to do around three courses plus dessert.

    This year I'm going to start with the carrot soup from Modernist Cuisine. Then the second course will be medallions of turkey breast cooked sous vide, truffled potato puree and sauteed mushrooms. The third course will be a kind of "napolean" I make by alternating thin slices of dark meat terrine (bound together with Activa and cooked sous vide) with cornbread dressing and with some shredded braised leg meat on top, green pea puree and turkey glace.

  12. Question: I have a generic Mexican-style green sauce I make by simmering poblano and serano peppers, tomatillos, onion, garlic, pepitas until tender and then pureeing in the VitaPrep with lots of fresh cilantro. Is there any reason I couldn't can this? It's relatively thick as-is, but I'd thin it out with some water. Assuming I could can it, what protocol should I use? I was thinking of using the one for soup (i.e., hot pack quarts and process at 10 PSI for 75 minutes). Thoughts? Advice?

  13. The main thing I have found with beans is this: Even after you have re-hydrated them and simmered them for 30 minutes, when you put the beans in the jar you should leave more like 2.5 inches of headspace so that the beans are covered by around an inch and a half of liquid. This way, when the beans expand and absorb water during the canning process, they will still be covered with a little bit of liquid when processing is finished.

  14. With respect, there *is* a pretty easy way to assess thickness without a caliper of micrometer: The change you carry around in your pocket. A dime? Run away. A Penny? Maybe for table service. A nickel? Get excited.

    With respect, this seems like hogwash. Even assuming that one can accurately compare the thickness of a coin to the thickness of a piece of cookware, a nickel is only 1.95 mm thick. The thickest American coin is the half-dollar at 2.15 mm. There is no American coin that can be profitably compared to 2.5 mm cookware.

  15. After reading this thread I am still confused about the definition of Ragu and the definition of Bolognese. I always thought a ragu was generally a tomato based meat sauce characterized by a soffrito and long cooking of the meat. Most any kind of meat was acceptable, including goat and rabbit or a mix of meats; you used what you had.

    Ragù more or less means "a dish or sauce made out of a bunch of ingredients long-cooked together with meat." Think about its relationship to the French word ragoût. This may include tomatoes, but it doesn't have to include tomatoes. The meat is almost always present in the sauce, but it doesn't have to be present in the sauce and the meat may be served in as a separate course (e.g., ragù Napoletano). As with many things Italian, there is not great consistency in nomenclature and regional customs abound (Italian only became the majority language spoken in the home as recently as the 1980s!). However, generally speaking, if the meat is cooked in the sauce but not included in the sauce, the sauce is usually called "sugo di [something]" -- unless, of course, it is a preparation that's traditionally called "ragù." So, for example, I have some friends who run a trattoria and when they make ossobuco they sometimes have a lot of leftover braising sauce. This leads to a special of "gnocchi al sugo di ossobuco" (or tagliattelle or whatever pasta they feel like serving with the ossobuco braising sauce). I suppose they could technically call it "ragù di ossobuco," but unless it contained substantial amounts of ossobuco meat in the sauce my experience is that they wouldn't be likely to call it that.

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