slkinsey

Paul, as I said above (and especially if it's more convenient) you should try Arturo's on Houston. The crust there seems most like what you are describing. Patsy's crust is paper thin, charred/crisp on the bottom but light with soft and pliable inner layer. Thinner than the places that are trying for true Neapolitan style, but not with the structure and chewyness you seem to be after. You might also try Di Fara in Brooklyn. In terms of the crust, I'd say it's the pinacle of the style family that has Domino's at the opposite end of the scale.

It depends on what you mean by "NYC-Style pizza." There are probably 3 or 4 distinct sub-genres of NYC pizza. Can you give any examples of places that are serving the style you are looking for?

I don't think it has an "official" name. I'd say that Reinhart's "neo-Neapolitan" (which is a designation of his own coinage as far as I know) comes as close as anything else in defining what you describe.

Not many people know that Munchos (aka: Мунчос) were originally developed by Peter Carl Fabergé as the perfect caviar delivery vehicle for exclusive use by the Tsars of Russia. In 1897, it took 237 serfs to make one Muncho.

I'm not sure it's possible to achieve what you are looking for with a home oven. It sounds like you might like Arturo's down on Houston. They are a coal oven place, but I think they use a lower hydration dough (including salt, which most don't) and a higher gluten flour. The result is a crust that has some lightness, but is also more crisp, strong and chewy than others. It sounds like what you are describing is that Reinhart describes as "neo-Neapolitan" (meaning places like Patsy's East Harlem, Pizzeria Bianco, Grimaldi's, Sally's, etc.). But those places have the advantage of 900 degree retained heat ovens.

There are traditions of fresh pasta made with semolina or durum flour (which is more or less the same thing -- semolina is simply coarse durum flour). A good example would be orecchiette. However, the classic model that most of us think of when we think of "fresh pasta" is the Emilia-Romagna style of fresh pasta as exemplified by tagliatelle, etc. This is classically made with Italian "00" flour for pasta, which is a highly refined flour that is relatively low in gluten, producing a characteristically soft and tender noodle. Durum flour/semolina, on the other hand, has the most and strongest gluten of any other wheat flour. This makes it perfect for extruded factory-made dry pastas such as spaghetti, but not so great for a soft, tender Emilia-Romagna style fresh pasta. This is especially true of semolina which, in addition to being an extremely strong flour, also imparts a somewhat granular texture. American cooks who use semolina in making fresh pasta often must resort to cutting the dough with fat in order to make it tender. I think the best approximation of Italian "00" flour for pasta is a mixture of 3/4 AP flour and 1/4 cake flour (cake flour is both highly refined and low in gluten).

A bottomless portafilter also makes it possible to use the La Marzocco triple basket. I'm also told that a bottomless portafilter is a lot easier to keep clean, since you really only need to worry about the filter basket. A disadvantage of the bottomless portafilter, of course, is that you can't run coffee into two cups at once.

I always thought (although I may be wrong) that the reason the Fairway lettuces look ragged is that they don't trim away the outer leaves for display. Once I pull away the (often slightly browned from bruising) outer leaves, I think I usually get right around the usual amount of good-looking lettuce on the inside.

Have you thought of a bottomless portafilter?

Anything like the picture accompanying this article?

Finger limes come in all different colors, including green, and some of them could be described as "acorn sized." What color were the cells you saw?

Imoya is a very good South African brandy. I think you can get it in the States, but it's possible that there are vintages and ages you can only get in South Africa. I'm sure there are other very good brandys that are only for sale in South Africa.

Sounds like finger limes. Rather than having the standard citrus interior, they are filled with tiny individual cells that can look a bit like caviar.

Interesting. I wonder what the chemistry of that is? Could be interesting for a separate topic of discussion.

Busnel VSOP Caovados is right around that range, and a number of bars I know use it for mixing. How many years of aging does it have? 30? How would you compare the apple-specific character to, say, 6 year oldf Calvados? I'm also curious as to whether you think you would be able to easily identify that Calvados among a blind sampling of several 30 year old Cognacs and Armagnacs.

The squash idea is interesting (even though I abhor squash). I wonder if a good technique to get flavors out of something like squash might be the gelatin method.

Host Note: topic split from AppleJack topic. IMO they become less and less interesting with age. Several years of age to mellow out the rough edges and add a little color, etc. is good. But beyond a certain point, the apple brandy tastes less and less of apples and more and more of "generic aged spirit." A 15 year old apple brandy doesn't really taste of apples at all, and might as well be a grape brandy.

How wonderful to hear that you have such a great cocktail spot in Cleveland! I'm out that way every so often, and for sure will drop in on the VTR the next time I'm there. As for the Aviation cocktail (eG thread here), I wouldn't say it's anywhere near close to extinction. In fact, I think it's probably more popular today among cocktailians than it was 90 years ago. It first appeared in Ensslin's "Recipes for Mixed Drinks" in 1916, at which time it included gin, lemon juice, maraschino liqueur and crème de violette (imparting a sky-blue color and thus explaining the name). It later appeared in The Savoy Cocktail Book without the crème de violette, and that has become the accepted standard recipe.

Dianabanana, I don't think the studies were evaluating the products' effectiveness at getting rid of waxy coatings. I agree that something more than water is needed to get rid of the coating. Although, of course, one can just buy uncoated produce -- but depending on time of year and location, that can be difficult.

I agree with Steven that it seems like something comes off of, e.g., apple and citrus skins if you use some kind of surfactant. I haven't tried the vinegar trick, though, and I also find that regular old Dawn liquid works just fine without any appreciable residue or off-flavor remaining. I generally feel this is true for produce that is coated. As for other things... I've just never felt that things like peaches, raspberries and broccoli would benefit from any more cleaning than I can do with regular old water.

Okay. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the Veggie Wash is more expensive, or that the organic dish soap is considerably more concentrated. Even if they are the exact same concentration -- which surely you must concede is not the case -- the organic dish soap sells for 19 cents an ounce whereas Veggie Wash sells for 25 cents an ounce.

"A thousand times" was hyperbole, of course, but let's do the math: At around a quarter-teaspoon in five gallons of water. That's the approximate concentration I've used of Dawn dishwashing liquid in my sink, and we can probably use less than that. Clearly one uses very small amounts of detergent in doing this kind of thing. The organic dishwashing liquid to which I linked upthread costs six bucks for a quart, and as far as I can tell contains essentially the exact same ingredients as Veggie Wash in more concentrated form. A quart contains 192 teaspoons. That would make 768 kitchen sinks full (3840 gallons) of vegetable washing water. Environne Fruit & Vegetable wash costs around six bucks for a pint, and you're not going to be doling that stuff out at a quarter ounce per five gallons. Veggie Wash is around four bucks for a pint-sized spray bottle. Let's say you use two squirts of this stuff (around a half-teaspoon) per gallon of water. One bottle is going to get you 32 gallons of vegetable wash, which means that the other stuff will give you 120 times more vegetable washing water. Even if you use a quarter teaspoon of Veggie Wash per gallon of water, the organic detergent will give you five times more gallons of vegetable washing water. There's certainly some question in my mind as to whether there is any benefit to be gained from having the produce that "clean." I say "clean" in quotations because it seems clear to me that, in some instances, we're trading residues of dirt and minute traces of pesticides for residues of the vegetable washing surfactant. If harmful bacteria counts are high enough to make me sick, I don't see how these produce washes are going to reduce those counts enough to make a difference. After all, it's not like everyone would have been just fine if only the workers at Taco Bell had dumped their scallions into sinksfull of water with Veggie Wash. And, for me, I guess I'd rather have a tiny bit more undetectable dirt on my raspberries than adulterate them with a mild lemony flavor (or, worse yet, soapy). Honestly, I don't understand why we're so afraid of a little dirt. I can see that it makes sense to get rid of coatings on fruits and whatnot. I wash citrus, for example, because I want to be able to get the oils out better. But I've never felt the need to exhaustively wash broccoli I'm getting ready to cook beyond getting off any immediately apparent dirt -- and a quick splash under the tap is usually all that is required for that.

Nice find, Mitch. Here are some quotes I found relevant: This article says that produce washes are as good "as good a job as chlorinated water and sometimes better" at reducing pathogenic microorganisms from produce, and one researcher says he would recommend Fit "if you are concerned about pathogenic microorganisms on your produce." As for pesticides:

handwashing dish soap is actually detergent. not that this automatically means much; any mix of chemical surfacants (as opposed to natural fat-based soap) is called detergent. i imagine some detergents are much nastier than others. dishwasher detergent has a lot of stuff besides surfacants in it that you don't want on or in your body--like powerful alkaline chemicals and bleaches. Right. Detergent is just a cleaning surfactant that is not soap. For sure Veggie Wash includes detergent. The list of ingredients includes: water -- I think this is the main ingredient "natural cleaners made from corn and coconut" -- aka ammonium lauryl/laureth sulfate (most regular dish soaps use sodium lauryl/laureth sulfate, but ammonium lauryl/laureth sulfate are detergents which are commonly used in some of the "less gentle" shampoo formulations) lemon oil sodium citrate -- this is a common food additive used to provide a tart taste in soft drinks like Sprite (most likely included, along with the lemon oil, to mask any potentially soapy flavors with "lemony/tart" flavors) glycerin -- increases soap bubbling, etc. grapefruit seed extract -- unproven, but held by some to have antibacterial and antifungal properties The rub is the ammonium lauryl/laureth sulfate. Detergent all the way, just sneakily listed as "natural cleaners made from corn and coconut." I have no first-hand knowledge, however the statement I quoted above said: This strikes me as a somewhat dubious claim, considering that water contamination is a major criticism of pesticide use. I think it's true that they are designed so that they have some staying power, but the EPA says solubility of 30 parts per million or lower is better, which is far from "waterproof."

Well, I'm thinking more like the fact that the $6.99 unscented, flavorless, eco-friendly dish soap costs only around twice as much as a bottle of Veggie Wash and contains something like a thousand times more vegetable washes, considering that Veggie Wash recommends a quarter-cup of Veggie Wash to a gallon of water and you'd use the other stuff a drop at a time (or possibly even less). Even using the comparison of Dawn or Palmolive, it's possible that we're just not diluting the dish soap enough (your "tiny squirt of Palmolive in a large mixing bowl" is already less dilute than what I was doing). My theory is that Veggie Wash is probably nothing more than unscented, flavorless, eco-friendly dish soap diluted in lots of water, and that we should be able to make our own Veggie Wash equivalent at home for a minute fraction of the price. Yea. I think that's the major barrier to using common dish soap on soft and/or porous foods: the soapy taste. Although it may be possible to eliminate this problem if the soap is sufficiently diluted, and certain formulations may not have this problem. I also wonder whether, for these foods, it might not just be better to keep a big jug of RealLemon lemon juice in the refrigerator and dilute that in some water as a wash for these foods instead of using Veggie Wash.