docsconz

Thanks for the explanation, Arne. They look pretty cool and useful.

Nathan, I think this is an outstanding post. One way to distinguish art and craft in cuisine is the various kitchen roles. The artistry is the creation of the dish including the combination of ingredients, methods of preparation and plating and presentation. The craft is in following the devised procedure to put all of that together in the correct manner. This is a symbiotic relationship. The craftsperson may have inherent artistry, but that is sublimated to the art of the creator.

I certainly disn't say that makes them star-worthy. i said that makes them "only in New York". That they do what they do well makes them worth consideration for stars. I would like to see some evidence for your assertion about the Tasting Room's source materiels. I know where Savoy gets much of their produce from as it comes from my backyard (practically) and I personally know many of the farmers who supply them. That doesn't a priori make the restaurant starworthy, but I know they have good ingredients that are different from California. Also by virtue of the fact that the seasons (at this point in time anyway) are so much more distinct than they are in California, so is the seasonality of their menu. There are a number of reasons why restaurants have gone to sourcing local ingredients, not the least of which is that the quality of local ingredients has increased dramatically in many parts of the country and the fact that by doing so they preserve some degree of distinctiveness and regionality compared to a more global style. It also makes sense in other ways but this discussion is veering away from the topic which is Michelin. The bottom line is that restaurants shouldn't be awarded Michelin stars simply because of where they source their ingredients. The important thing is what they do with those ingredients.

It's called "terroir."

Only in style, but then contemporary California cuisine of that ilk is really a take off of Mediterranean cuisines. One thing that makes them of New York is their reliance on New York produce. Savoy is particularly good and Blue Hill raises a lot of their own.

Great reports, Megan! I am very much looking forward to the rest. My experience and knowledge of prague is minimal to say the least. I am a bit better acquainted with the offerings of Strasbourg though I have never been. It is fun visiting and tasting through your experience.

Now that is something to chew on! There might be a lull in this thread unless we head in a slightly different direction.

Why not the food experts? Is someone with a highly tuned sense of musical appreciation necessarily suited to judge what constitutes a great painting or a culinary masterpiece (in the case of slkinsey or Pan, perhaps )? Why shouldn't the experts within a field be the most competent to judge that field?

In addition to lunch on Saturdays, Nougatine does serve brunch on Sundays from 12PM to 3PM. Your example illustrates why both the Main Dining Room at Jean-Georges and Nougatine share the same thread. It is because the restaurant itself appears to treat them as variations of the same product. Indeed they share the same kitchen, though the menus, the ambiance and in fact, the culinary product are different. BTW, Nougatine is perfectly fine for lunch, dinner and I imagine brunch. It is just that although it still represents good value for lunch during the week, the value pales in comparison to its conjoined sibling.

Cuisine is art when it's not repetitive, if you are following a recipe, even if it is one you created in the past, it is a craft. The same with painting, you have "artists" who simply reproduce the same style over and over, now that's not a bad thing, but it becomes more of a craft as the creativity isn't necessarily at a maximum. That said, as a diner, the first time you try something new, it is art to you. ← It's tricky making analogies across different media, but I disagree with this because, by this logic, only classical music composers, but not performers, can be "artists", and I doubt this is a commonly held opinion. I think music is probably a better analogue for the culinary arts than painting because of the importance of the ephemeral re-creation (the musical performance or the food we eat) as well as the permanent creation (the musical score or the recipe.) Both creation and recreation have objective technical standards (the "craft") which is somewhat related to, but is not synonymous with artistic merit. A person can be a creator or re-creator or both, and art is possible either way. I could go on, but this is somewhat OT, and there's probably a thread devoted to this topic elsewhere. ← Actually Leonard, I don't think this is OT at all. The question of what is art is pertinent. One of the reasons this topic came up in the first place for this interview is because, cuisine as art was the basis for Paul's demonstration/discussion at The International Chefs Congress. It is a legitimate question with a variety of opinions. I think cross-platform comparisons are therefore relevant. You raise very good questions. Is art in the creation or the performance? or both? My opinion is that if someone is simply faithfully copying and producing something whether it be a recipe or performing a musical score, albeit very well, that is craft. Craft is perfectly respectable and greatly appreciated, but something becomes art when it is made into something new and personal by the artist. That is to say, that the artist has put his individual stamp on it, the artist has created something whether it be good, bad or indifferent. There are times when craft may be preferable to art, but when art strikes the right chord it really resonates in ways that craft cannot. ← An important factor that has been left out of the discussion so far is INTENT. If an artist intends to present, interpret, amuse, annoy or otherwise stimulate an audience (regardless of the audience's appreciation for the work), that work can at least on some level be considered art. If the piece in question is unwittingly created, it is much less likely to be art. For example, when modern painters created works that were simply blocks of color (representing no more technical skill than that possessed by a 5-year-old), they were still art. This was because of the intent of the artist during their creation, and what their creation represented. However, if that same block of color were created accidentally by machine, accident or other means, it would not qualify as art. Repetition is not inherently directly relevant. Most of the great artists of our time (and previous times) created dozens of versions of the same painting in some cases, and almost always created more than one version of any famous works (e.g. the many versions of Munch's "The Scream" and Picasso's "Guernica"). To say that any of these iterations were not art due to the repitition is ludicrous. However, if a machine had been used to mechanically reproduce these items, they would not be considered original art. So once again, the benchmark for creating art is intent rather than repitition. Skill/craft come into play as TOOLS for the artist. While not required, having a high level of skill/craft gives the artist an enhanced ability to create and stimulate as he/she pleases. This is no different in music, painting or any other form. Many rock musicians aren't great technical players of their instruments (even though quite a few are)...in fact, many can't even read music...but this doesn't make them more or less "artists" than highly trained classical musicians...the training simply provides additional tools at the artist's disposal. With respect to food, the same criteria of intent apply. A short order cook, who cranks out hundreds of burgers every day, may not even think about what he/she is doing when making each one. This is unlikely to seem like art. On the other hand, the cooking of someone like Kenny Shopsin (see the movie "I Like to Kill Flies" for reference) might be considered art, even though it's not done at a high technical level. Meanwhile, a master chef (like Paul), whose intent is to stimulate his customer/subject, is clearly an artist in every definable sense of the word. His chosen medium just happens to be food. ← Your post is extremely well thought out and written. I agree that intent is important. So is context. A 5 y/o might paint something that might resemble a work of Paul Klee and call it "art" not necessarily knowing what really is meant by the term. Because it is a unique product of that hand and time it is also probably original, but is it art? As for the aspect of repetition, if it is repetition for its own sake without original elements and without being repetition for a specific artistic purpose, I would hesitate to call it art - but then that is where your concept of intent comes in. Most of the examples of painting that you mentioned are not exact copies, but variations on the original or studies for a final work. So far on this thread we have had some discussion as to criteria for considering something as art rather than craft and nobody has really opposed the idea that creating food for consumption can be considered as art, yet there have been such opponents in the past on the eGullet Forums. The one problem I have with such a broad definition of "art" that we have been using in the discussion so far is that it can devalue the term. If art can be good, bad or indifferent, what difference does it really make to consider something as art, especially as regards food?

Indeed, you are correct. The hours from their website are listed as Lunch: Mon-Fri 12:00PM-2:30PM Dinner: Mon-Fri 5:30PM-11:00PM Sat 5:15PM-11:00PM Closed Sunday I guess I will return to my previous ignorance.

I do believe that this requires some explanation

Outliers in the one star category either way are almost certainly debatable within a margin of error. The only real surprise inclusion to me in the two stars and up arena was the two stars given to Del Posto. The other restaurants in that category are debatable regarding their relative merits.

How about slicing it into strips and using it in a stir-fry? BTW, I don't think I can ever tire of having it prepared seared skin-side down and with sauce. While not magret, last night I prepared some duck leg confit from Grimaud Farms and served it with sauteed mushrooms and a combination of kohlrahbi and carrots glazed with cinnamon. That confir is so easy and soooo good.

Are you saying that Eleven Madison Park was "Panned?" Sorry. I couldn't resist. Please continue.

Cuisine is art when it's not repetitive, if you are following a recipe, even if it is one you created in the past, it is a craft. The same with painting, you have "artists" who simply reproduce the same style over and over, now that's not a bad thing, but it becomes more of a craft as the creativity isn't necessarily at a maximum. That said, as a diner, the first time you try something new, it is art to you. ← It's tricky making analogies across different media, but I disagree with this because, by this logic, only classical music composers, but not performers, can be "artists", and I doubt this is a commonly held opinion. I think music is probably a better analogue for the culinary arts than painting because of the importance of the ephemeral re-creation (the musical performance or the food we eat) as well as the permanent creation (the musical score or the recipe.) Both creation and recreation have objective technical standards (the "craft") which is somewhat related to, but is not synonymous with artistic merit. A person can be a creator or re-creator or both, and art is possible either way. I could go on, but this is somewhat OT, and there's probably a thread devoted to this topic elsewhere. ← Actually Leonard, I don't think this is OT at all. The question of what is art is pertinent. One of the reasons this topic came up in the first place for this interview is because, cuisine as art was the basis for Paul's demonstration/discussion at The International Chefs Congress. It is a legitimate question with a variety of opinions. I think cross-platform comparisons are therefore relevant. You raise very good questions. Is art in the creation or the performance? or both? My opinion is that if someone is simply faithfully copying and producing something whether it be a recipe or performing a musical score, albeit very well, that is craft. Craft is perfectly respectable and greatly appreciated, but something becomes art when it is made into something new and personal by the artist. That is to say, that the artist has put his individual stamp on it, the artist has created something whether it be good, bad or indifferent. There are times when craft may be preferable to art, but when art strikes the right chord it really resonates in ways that craft cannot.

Cuisine is art when it's not repetitive, if you are following a recipe, even if it is one you created in the past, it is a craft. The same with painting, you have "artists" who simply reproduce the same style over and over, now that's not a bad thing, but it becomes more of a craft as the creativity isn't necessarily at a maximum. That said, as a diner, the first time you try something new, it is art to you. ← I like that. Another thing to consider is that not all art is equal. Some paintings are more appealing or provocative then others, some music more evocative and some cuisine more stimulating than others.

Portuguese Alvarinhos can be excellent as well and certainly are not to be disregarded. I believe that Brian's particular expertise is with the wines of Spain, which is why I believe they has been discussed so far. Filipe, do you have any sense of the Alvarinho harvest and quality in Portugal this year? Any suggestions for particular wineries and vineyards?

The one to the right appears to have a large whole in the skull. Is the brain used for anything in particular? ← There is a specific way of preparing a tuna when captured called the 'Tanaguchi' method. The tuna when captured, will get a club to the head to shock it and then a spike is inserted into the soft spot to stop it from thrashing and bruising the flesh. Once that is done, the head is split open for pithing, insetion of a thick string like mono filament which will destroy the brain and the spinal cord to stop the biochemical reactions which may contribute to deterioration of the flesh. The fish is then bled, gilled and gutted in a specific manner and flash frozen. All these things are done to keep the flesh in its most prestine condition so that it retains a high market value. ← Thank you for the explanation. It certainly makes sense that they would preserve these very valuable fish as well as possible. From a physiologic POV I am curious as to the mechanisms that would make this work. I imagine that it would have to do with a stress response, but then I would think that somehow they would need to cut off circulatory flow from the brain. Sorry for the graphic thoughts!

Eliot, thanks for the article. That gets to the same point that Paul was. All the senses are important when it comes to dining. Sound is one that we tend to take for granted. From the article you linked to: While it is implied in that quote, it isn't explicitly stated that the sense of touch is also vital. We all know the roles texture can play in gustatory perception. I am not surprised that Paul and Heston Blumenthal share this outlook. In the interview Paul mentioned seeing his friend, Chris Young, the R&D Director for The Fat Duck at the Conference at the CIA.

What do you think? Can cuisine be art or is it entirely craft? Anyone care to share his or her experiences along these lines or the business of running a restaurant? How do you try to please your customers and how do you respond to those who don't like what you do?

I assume - but can't be sure - that you live in NY. When was the last time you went outside whatever city/country you live in for an extended trip? What was that city - and what restaurant guide did you use? I find the Zagat number ratings quite adequate for picking "not big deal" restaurants when I'm traveling in the US. I especially like the restaurant listings by geographical areas. I have found Michelin red guides to be very useful in Europe - but no one can tell me that that a lot of the Michelin one star restaurants in New York are better than David Burke & Donatella. I just don't think that Michelin has its act together in the US as of today. Robyn ← Unless I am hearing about a particular restaurant from someone I trust, the guide that I use when I travel is the eGullet guide Of course, one has to sift through the various opinions...but I have found that it tends to work pretty well in most cases.

With the same format? Ifso, I have learned something .

If this is on the menu (Charred Corn Ravioli, Basil Fondue, Cherry Tomato Salad), it is ethereal. I love all the other suggestions as well. If you are planning on a weekend, you won't have a choice. You will have to go to Nougatine as the main dining room doesn't serve lunch on Saturdays.

Wow. Impressive. Perhaps Yasuda for this trip, and Masa in several years when (hopefully) my palate is more sensitive and I can more fully appreciate the experience. Two others to consider--Blue Hill and WD-50. I think Henry is more a fan of the WD-50 style, but I've skimmed the EG thread and their website and I'm willing to give it a go. Is it possible to order a tasting menu and perhaps two courses from the a la carte menu, and share? ← I would call WD-50 and ask. They are generally very accomodating.