stellabella

lesley c one of the women attending my indian cooking class on sunday said she buys all her produce at whole foods, willingly paying more for it because it is "class a" or "a class"--i can't remember how she phrased it. then she added that the produce at our large atlanta farmer's market if typically class b or c, so it doesn't keep as long--and she explained to me, the vegetable moron, that produce grading is based on, say, travel time, storing conditions, etc. so at a place like whole foods you can pay more for better food. being a skeptic, as well as a ding-dong, i am inclined to not believe her completely. don't ask me why, but the concept of produce grading never occured to me, and i'm sure there are many out there who'd laugh heartily at my admission [mea culpa! mea culpa!]. perhpas whole foods does in fact stock only the very freshest produce. perhaps it is worth more. i have always assumed that anything in a grocery store, regardless of which one it is, is only as good as it looks. i always think of the road-side fruit stand as the a-class produce purveyor. sometimes the freshest organic stuff looks puny and gnarly, but has exceptional taste, etc. so, just thought i'd add this bit about whole foods. laugh if you want, people. i'm here to LEARN, i said!

I apologize for being flippant - but I did use a smiley! As a matter of fact, I was put on a diet - by a doctor who happened to be obese himself - at the age of ten, and another at eleven, and by the time I was out of my teens I decided I was through with diets. Well, I have posted Not-milk several times on eGullet. There is also Milk Sucks!, which includes its own links page. (Hey, folks: I don't make this stuff up.) I also try to be diplomatic, and I'm well aware that my views are unpopular here. It is true that a group of humans in the Andes once were forced by circumstances to eat their frozen dead comrades just to survive, but in a world where we are often able to choose what we eat we can sometimes make educated choices. The Physicians' Committee for Responsible Medicine has a page entitled "Shoudln't I drink milk?" which puts a lot of commonly-held beliefs to rest. I am also the first to admit that dairy products are enjoyable, even addictive. Cheese is undeniably delicious, and most people are willing to put up with the consequences - possible discomfort or worse - of eating it. Cheese, after all, contains casomorphin, which is an opioid substance. When I say it causes respiratory distress, I mean that it causes everyone to produce varying amounts of mucus. This is established; people of Nordic backgrounds tend to metabolize dairy products better than many other ethnic/racial groups, and people of African ancestry can't metabolize dairy at all, which makes it positively criminal for the milk-mustache ads to target African-Americans the way they do. ("Hey, folks, I don't make this stuff up.") But I digress. I hope I've provided enough links. those who drank three glasses of milk per day had more fractures than those who rarely drank milk.14 i copied and pasted this from a harvard study cited on one of the sites franklanguage mentions. as an amateur social scientist, i tend to read a statement like this as omitting other concurrent risky behaviors among milk-drinkers the study goes on to add that other factors besides calcium deficiency actually put women at greater risk for developing osteoporosis: genetics, smoking, and sedentary lifesyle. which takes me back to everyone else's primary point, jaybee: whatever approach you adopt towards weightloss, it has to be based on a lifestyle change that includes regular exercise--and if you are female, and for some reason i think you are [?]--you MUST perfrom weight-bearing exercise regularly to stave off osteoporosis, which is actullay inevitable, to a degree--women who are active and strong can reduce bone loss. drink milk, eat steak, but MOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hurray! good luck!

jaybee [& everyone]-- because i love my yoga, and because i think it can do good for others, i want to clarify-- lots of people who "get into" yoga may also start to get into the whole natural foods/ alternative living thing that often accompanies yoga teaching & practice--but you don't have to. when franklanguage talks about giving up meat & dairy as a natural progression, FL is till talking about a personal and unique experience. believe me, between my massage therapist, chiropractors, yoga teachers, etc, i have heard it all, including all the typical meat & dairy horror stories. i always rely on my common sense to help me wade through all the myths and misinformation [ oh, the latest: women shouldn't drink milk as it actually causes osteoporosis--okay, and i want to see the results of at least a dozen logitudinal studies!] . the interesting thing about ayurveda is that it DOES NOT proscribe meat or dairy. i recommend deepak chopra's Perfect Health as a good starter, IF you are interested. anyone else, as well. i am interested in the different responses to the fat attack: am I fat? well....what's today? and what's average?

jaybee--you've gotten the best advice so far--ron's bit about moderating during the week and blowing out on weekends works for me, too--i skip supper 2-3 nights during the week. but because we are all different in so many ways, i thought i'd add a little something--if you are really commited to this and find that certain approaches aren't giving you the results you want, consider any and all alternatives. i am an avid yogini. that said, i quickly add that yoga isn't for everyone, but here's what i think it can do for someone trying to lose weight--it reintroduces you to your body in a way you've never imagined--it can help you appreciate what is already good about your physical self, while helping you to love unconditionally the rest of it, even it needs some help. sorry to sound sappy, but i believe this is important. western culture is narcissistic and appearance-obsessed--we all should be able to love our physical bodies, regardless of what we look like. in addition, i enjoy reading about ayurveda. often yogis stress an ascetic lifestyle which frankly isn't realistic for about 99% of us. i tend to be a vegetarian in practice but not in theory-- i think eating meat is right and necessary for many people, and i also eat it on occasion, if i feel the need. ayurvedic philosophy is a nice companion to yoga in that it can help you understand your physical type and your specific dietary needs--that's why the idea of a "diet" doesn't work, in addition to slowing down metabolism--you need to be eating foods that satisfy and nourish YOU. good luck on this journey--again, be opne and adventurous and when you get discouraged, come on line and tell us and we'll lend an ear and cheer you up

cookbooklady-- i can see where you are coming from here, especially if one in the regular group is really poor and one is really rich --whatever these terms may mean to you, or you, or you... but i am still more in agreement here with bux & steve--simply because i too belong to groups of regularly dining friends and we ALWAYS split the bill equally, period, regardless of who we are. it's just what we do. cookbooklady, i agree that your system works for you guys fine so please don't feel you need to defend it. but i quote steve here because he is so dang-gum right. the one amongst us who ALWAYS makes the mewling puking noises tends to be across-the-board tight and often not only embrassingly so but OFFENSIVELY so--take the time she joined us as a weekend guest at the home of other friends and, when we bought toilet paper and laundry soap, having used a good bit of said hosts', she looked at us and sneered, Well, I thought about doing that, but then decided not to. yes, we do have to like our friends because and in spite of. this thread is definately a vent, and maybe some of us recognize ourselves or certain tendencies here, and if that's the case, then we can say, Gee, maybe people think I'm a BUTTHOLE when I do such-and-such-- is so then this thread may serve a concurrent edifying purpose but cheapness and laziness among friends, in whatever context, sucks, period. let's get it off our chests so we don't KILL them.

I don't know how I missed this thread. Laurie A-B, did you ever fantasize about having your attic prison transformed the way Sara's was, with pots of steaming tea and pastries, thick plush Asian rugs, slippers waiting by your bedside, as you awoke to another dreary day? Speaking of sacrifice, how about the March girls donating their Xmas breakfast to the poor? What about Harriet the Spy's tomato sandwiches and her daily after-school "cake and milk, milk and cake"? Anne-with-an-E Shirley getting Diana tipsy on a bottle of cherry cordial? Fashioning tiny bark goblets during picnics? Remember the kitchen Almanzo built for Laura in their first house? With the incredible hand-hewn pantry cupboards and drawers for flour and sugar? Maurice Sendak's Higglety, Pigglety, Pop! was and still is my favorite book as a child. I've actuallu already mentioned this on eGullet, but sometimes i feel like Jennie, eating everything in sight, compulsively. Though I've never sucked an egg. jhlurie, as for age-appropriate literature, I think that varies--when I was in third grade I was reading books by Herman Rauscher--don't ask me why or how--and by fifth grade all the girls were passing around tattered copies of Wifey and Forever by Judy Blume [definately NOT food books ]. I don't have kids, but I'm a teacher and I think kids should read what they're ready to read, and I certainly think they can be READ TO at very early ages--one friend used to put his toddler to sleep with Poe's "The Raven," and many very small kids hear The Hobbit before they read it themselves--Tolkein's books of course belonging right up there in the list of fabulous food imagery in children's literature! Great thread, Steven. Undoubtedly many of us post here today BECAUSE of the fabulous food imagery in our first books.

yeah, we know what you can do with eggs. Charlene, I had been thinking about starting a thread, in general, about eGullet significant others [i know there are a few couples who each post here]. My husband can cook but he has gotten so lazy. I don't know. He has been baking since he was in grad school--he doesn't even follow recipes to turn out lovely loaves--but this happens less and less. On occasion he'll still make pizza or foccacia--again, his considerable baking skill comes into play--but this usually happens during the summer when we have garden tomatoes and he's not working. My husband is also about a foot taller than I am and, even though we created a spacious kitchen for ourselves, he often seems to be in my way. Then he makes these meals which confuse me. He brings home fat free half & half for soup and I freak out and send him back out to the store. He makes soup by filling a pot with cold water and dropping chopped onion into it. I get all panicky watching him do this. Do you think I have control issues ? Well, I do. I am the food-o-holic. I am the one who wants to do things that are special and different, even if I don't succeed at first. He has kinda lost his love of the kitchen in late years--dunno why--while mine continues to grow. I cook perhaps 90% of the time. I feel a bit wistful. In June after school's out I am taking him to an Indian cooking class in Atlanta--I want to get him involved in the kitchen again--Indian cooking can easily be a two-person job, and I'd love to have him help.

bux, stefanyb, jaybee, i wanted to respond to all of you. i posted about a very very very bad & ugly tipping experience a couple months ago. bux, yes, there are some people who will disrupt a giddy tipsy jovial end-o'-meal conversation to whine, when the bill is presented [and this person is the only one who has bothered to go for it and carfully scrutinize it], "But I only had one glass of wine!!!" i think we all know one or two. we can go on forever here about how, GOSH, no one could possibly be friends with a person like THAT! oh, yeah? you can pick your nose, but you can't always pick your friends.

FL I didn't know baking one's own cake was bad luck , either, but now I think it makes a great excuse Were i your neighbor I'd bake you one, too. Stellab stefanyb, thanks, doll--you may hear from me--wish it was your birthday so i could join you for bacon and hotdogs!!!!!!!!

jaybee, i do TRY to be blind, deaf etc., but, trust me, this is always a struggle and sometimes i get mad at my friends anyway one of our dearest friends had a very bad reputation among "the group" [5-6 couples who have been entertaining each other for years, always with delicious from-scratch foods, each couple contributing some special dish to every gathering]. said friend quickly became a pariah when, after the 3rd or 4th time volunteering to contribute a dessert, she showed up with a sara lee frozen pie picked up at the grocery store on the way to the party. this might have been excused once, but her behavior was consistent. other members of the group became catty. a few years ago it occurred to me that the members of this group are all extraordinary cooks whose skill and passion are probably a little intimidating--i realized this because i too have been intimidated [i entered the group eight years ago as the second wife of one of the founders]. i think the nonreciprocator is intimidated and insecure, and instead of trying to get better she decided early on to opt out. she demonstrates a form of "learned helplessness." nonetheless, she and her husband are very close to me and my husband, and i have learned to do two things with her: compliment her generously when she does make an attempt to cook, and ask her specifically to bring a certain dish i know she can make well and easily, like a tossed salad. in recent years she's doing a bit better, but she's still no match for some of the others. but i for one can appreciate even a small effort, and i do agree with the other responses here that for some this isn't even about rudeness--it's about a totally different consciousness.

my hunch as well, jinmyo. and then there's the basic truth that marriage [or partnership, or whatever you want to call it], is a mystery. my husband and i know folks who sometimes won't show up to parties, or one will come without the other. they are wonderful people but almost never have anyone into their home. it's disappointing, but it's who they are. in regards to our friends and the myriad ways they might make us a little crazy, my husband and i just try our best to be a little blind, a little deaf, etc.

stefanyb yours is perhaps the most beautiful post i have ever read here tears in my eyes i have thrown my own party every year since i can remember. in the last however many years my birthday parties have been dinner parties over which i have obsessed for weeks beforehand. this year [i'm a pisces] we had friends from out of town. my husband is a good man but he doesn't give me cakes. one of our guests stepped in and furiously whipped up the red velvet cake i ahd requested, telling me making my own cake was bad luck. red batter flew about the kitchen. she and i consumed many glasses of fine wines. later that evening i spilled thick melted hot chocolate all over my custom ethan allen arm chair and my husband's mexican rugs. had to schep all of it to the dry cleaners. it was divine.

Jim, moving to the country was scary. Where would we buy our food? rent progressive films? Who would our friends be? So far we've found that we can make do with a monthly trip to the Atlanta Deklab Farmer's Market, and we cook a whole lot more, which is a GREAT thing, and we are surrounded here by people like us, tired of city living, city exiles, who like to have fun. And then of course I get really excietd about going to visit my sister in NYC, for example, and reveling in all a city has to offer... But over all, this is the best life I could imagine for myself. Maybe that would make an interesting thread, people who live far from major cities--how they eat and what they feel they miss/gain.

It really is depressing. Some people actually feel sorry for me because I live in the country.

i've heard the same--very good service--again, all part of what you're paying for when you pay $5.99 for toothpaste. i agree with you, malawry--it's a great place to go before a party . i haven't bought cheese there but hear it's got one of the best cheese counters in Atlanta. when one of my friends was living in olney i shopped with her at fresh fields--i loved that store. it's similar to whole foods [same co, right?] but even nicer, i thought--maybe olney has an especially nice store. maybe it was the nicest supermarket i've ever seen, in fact. i remember we bought salmon and it was exquisitely fresh.

It depends on what you want/need from a supermarket. Because I live fifty miles from Atlanta, I couldn't shop regularly at Whole Foods even if I wanted to. When it first opened I tried it, just like everyone else. I have a friend who still makes the pilgrimage into Atlanta to buy food for her whole family there--she tells me she and her husband spend more than $300 at a time. Whole Foods [Atlanta] is a "beautiful" store, with beautiful fish, meat, cheese, deli sections. They also have their own brands of products, from food to personal care--and sometimes the Whole Foods brands are very reasonably priced. On the other hand, Whole Foods in general is expensive. I have no probelm with paying slightly higher prices for a slightly more inviting shopping experience--the reason why, for examply, I shop atTarget but never Wal-mart. But Whole Foods is almost criminally expensive. Tom's of Maine toothpaste is $3 at Target--it's $5.99 at Whole Foods. For example. If you really pay attention to prices, I think you notice that Whole Foods is often a rip-off. If money is no object, as is the case with my friend who spends $300 at a time, then Whole Foods is a great place to shop. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't shop here--just saying what I've observed, and I'd rather see my dollars go further, if possible.

No! More than likely because my local station has been having fund raising and programming is reduced to about a third I will try to track it down...? Grits are great, though, and not just as a breakfast food--texture and freshness are everything, and combined with the right ingredients they can do just about anything--sweet, savory, I'm sure there are grit desserts. In fact one of my favorite memories from Laura Ingalls Wilder comes from her first book and an account of the family's first move away from the Minnesota woods to the Western prairie-- before they left her grandmother fed the kids a meal called "hasty pudding"-- boiled cornmeal with pure maple syrup drizzled on top--this sounds so DE-LISH-US.

thanks, franklangauge and now i am going to have to beat you sensless for changing the topic but seriously--this is about the quality of butter, no? i try to buy organic food, but i mam not "orthorexic"--and i would imagine that european butter, being made from the milk of european cows, is already of a better quality than ours here in the states--in general

B Edulis we've already had a lengthy discussion about dishes, but let me ask you, do you have any of the depression-era refridgerator glasses? they come in different sizes, and they have a glass top --i would say these were the precursor to tupperware [ and i know someone out there knows more than i do--i just like how they look] i have two or three different sizes, most of them snared from the house of a recently deceased relative. they tend to be both hrad to find and pricey in antique stores [pdown her in GA]. they make great butter dishes becasue of course the larger ones can hold a pound of butter a butter dish doesn't have to be a butter dish--it just has to be pretty

cabrales, i don't know the temp of my freezer, but i always freeze butter, since my trips into atlanta upscale markets are now monthly excursions i am sure it changes something--taste maybe, but since i mostly cook with butter, i don't notice much problem malawry--it sounds like you and i both love our bread and butter--i go through phases [right now i am eating my home-blended cold cereal abreakfast], in winter i like hot cereal often, but my favorite breakfast is a toasted bagel--i toast it whole, so that when i slice it open it's moist and steamy inside. i eat it with thick schlabs of butter and jam [figs are the best], or thick schlabs of cream cheese--i'd say i'm more of a cream cheese person than a straight butter person, unless it is really good butter. so now you've got me thinking i'm just gonna get me some plugra next time i see it.

B Edulis I'm still plotzing. Thank you for the photos. Once I considered starting a thread about Egullet bathrooms, but I thought that would be totally inappropriate. In my observation, people with funky kitchens often also have funky bathrooms. Why is that? Great work.

I bought Plugra for a while after returning from Italy, not wanting to let go of the European butter flavor & richness. It is very good. I am intrigued by the Lurpak Priscilla mentions and will try to find it, though I have never seen it. I buy Horizon organic butter. Just because it's organic. It tastes fine. I do love butter, but mostly I cook with it, so texture and flavor matter less to me. I also buy Horizon organic fat free milk [it's a weird thing about milk--I love real butter & sour cream & cheese, etc, but I can only drink skimmed milk]. A friend who is a total vegetarian and big into organic foods told me that Horizon is NOT a good brand, that the company's practices are not very responsible. I never followed up on her remark--does anyone have anything to add? I buy Horizon because it's the only organic brand available to me [i live 50 miles from Atlanta].

priscilla, you and i sound like kindred dish spirits. i actually like my ma-in-law's visits as i know something is bound to go crashing to the floor--ah! time to pick up another odd fostoria glass! as for plates, when i break them, which is rare, as ironstone and fiesta don't want to break, i throw the shards in an old coal bucket on my back porch; the bucket is already half full of shards from my yard--my husband and i disagree about their origin--he thinks they came in with fill dirt, but i think they were thrown out by the people living in the house in 1900. but the most intense shard orgy of my life occured in the summer of 2000 on the Mull of Kintyre in Scotland. We stopped for an afternoon in a small village on the water, and because the tide was low my neice and took a walk in the muck. the beach was strwen with thousands of shards of ancient irnostone and other crockery. I gathered two bagsful and carried them into the local tourist info office "Why is the beach covered with pottery shards?" i asked the grey-haired woman behind the counter. she looked at me the way anexasperated school marm looks at the class dunce. "I have no idea," she said, "as no one has ever asked such a thing before." my best guess is that broken dishes were used as ship ballast, and/or the broken dishes were thrown over board while boats were docked. i got some fabulous peices. i plan to use them to make tiled stepping stones for my yard some day.

my eternal gratitude, degustation i was sure there was a difference between gram and chickpea, but my friend thought not. i am going to copy down your recommended methods for my next attempt at pakoras our recipe says the batter should be like thick pancake batter. the teacher 's pakoras were indeed "bready"--i actually thought the veg got lost in it, so much preferred our fallback method of combining the vegs into little pancakes. your method sounds even better.

and what's the place right here in atlanta, GA? beverly's or beverly bremer's silver shop? you find adds for it in the New Yorker, for example--i'm told it's also an excellent source for replacement pieces.