fifi

Over the years I have ventured to three La Madeleines here in the Houston area, downtown in the tunnel, Westheimer and the Bay Area. My standard for judgement was the tomato basil soup. At some point, I couldn't find the basil so I quit going. I think I may give them another try.

You make good points but that is what makes this so weird. 1) The time difference was at most 2 months, in a sealed canning jar. I can't imagine that making a difference either. The only other difference from a bag of beans in the pantry is the exposure to light since the jars are out on the bar. I can't imagine a mechanism that would cause that to make a difference. 2) Unless the independent oven thermometer is broke, the temperature is the same, 250. Burbling rate is always the same when I do the water check at 1 hour. 3) Actually, the same pot, my 2 1/2 quart Le Creuset. Even opening the lid to check the water level is the same. I set the timer for 1 hour, check the water, lid back on. I set the timer and check again at 2 hours. (Note, I have never had to add water.) 4) Same water. Our water source doesn't fluctuate significantly as to pH or hardness. I know this because they send out the analyses periodically and I am interested enough in such things to actually read it. We do get chlorine hits but only in the summer. I still have the black beans and pintos in the same situation. I may just have to sacrifice them. If those two take an additional 45 minutes, I may just run screaming into the night. My curiosity is killing me. I agree on the overnight sojourn in the fridge. The white beans with the hard spots were almost unpleasant. After a snooze in the fridge, they came out fine.

Oh goody. Brooks has come out to play. Actually, I kinda figured he was too busy playing elsewhere. Bacchus, Superbowl and gumbo. Life is really hard. Torakris . . . I would go with whatever sausage you can get. I just remembered some Asian sausages that I buy at the Asian grocery. They are cured to the point that they are not even refrigerated. That would be different but really good. Let's not get too hung up on trying to be "authentic." It is all good. Snowangel makes a good point. If you really crave the smoky component and you have something similar to bacon fat, you can add some of that to the roux, even if you have to supplement it with oil. Keep in mind that there are lots of gumbos that don't have a smoked anything in them. In fact, you have access to excellent seafood so you could just go that way and quit worrying about sausage. Somebody needs to post a basic recipe for seafood gumbo. I don't have one since I don't do it that often.

Rachel, I would do that if I had the freezer space. Right now I am making do with just the little freezer over the fridge in this lousy apartment refrigerator. Then there is the problem that I get some hairbrained idea of a recipe I want to try. I just can't stand not knowing what is going on with these beans. I have two more jars, pintos and black beans, and I am tempted to cook them just to see if the same thing happens.

When it comes to sausages, just about any smoked type will be good. Andouille is the typical in Louisiana and it is described here. Before it was readily available here, I just used whatever I could get my hands on. I made some over the holidays at my son's place in Chicago and we found some all beef that resembled andouille. He has Jewish friends that don't eat pork. I wouldn't go to the trouble to make sausage just to make gumbo. After all, gumbo is all about using what you have around to make something delicious. I have had some Asian sausages that I think would go quite well in a gumbo. Once you get past the roux and trinity business (and even the trinity can vary) just about anything goes. Think of it more as a technique than a "recipe." Some of the best I have had started with "I have this that and the other. Hey! That might make a good gumbo." Dim Sim, you don't see file and okra together. In fact, I don't see much gumbo with okra in the restaurants in south Louisiana. If they do have it, they usually call it "Okra Gumbo." On the roux, if I had a decent burner I could probably get to that dark color sooner but your typical home stove here just doesn't have the BTUs. I have done it in 30 minutes at a friend's house where they had a "high capacity" burner but it still wasn't a 15,000 BTU one like you might have on a Viking or such.

We are getting there but I am not sure I would agree that the final picture is a true "blonde" roux. I call it "peanut butter" and is what I would use in a seafood gumbo for instance. To me, blonde is just slightly toasted and what I would use in a rather delicate etouffe. That is why I was looking for an example that would picture the entire range so we could all be on the same page. Also, the sequence doesn't go all the way to dark. The one I remember had five or more examples.

Thanks for posting that picture, Jason. My chicken and sausage gumbo looks like the Upperline version. I have been trying to find a link to a site I found a long time ago that has pictures of the various stages of roux. After about an hour of googling, I am afraid I am coming up nil. If anyone has any ideas, it would be a useful reference for this topic.

About 15 years or more ago, I had the great good fortune to spend about two hours sitting next to Justin Wilson at dinner. I was a speaker at an industry symposium in Baton Rouge and he had been engaged to do the after dinner speech. We were seated on the dais together. Years before, when his comedy albums were selling like crawfish pies, my dad was a huge fan and bought every one that was produced. We got into a discussion about gumbo, partly because he didn't particularly care for the version we had been served. He was doing some further research on gumbo for a series of TV shows on the subject and I told him about The Gumbo Goddess. I did hear that he went and spent a day with her, she was really up in years at the time, but I don't know whatever happened about the TV shows. What a gracious gentleman he was. And he did know his gumbo. It turns out that of all of the wonderful Cajun foods he loved, gumbo was his absolutely gar-ron-teed favorite. So, we are in good company here.

No problem with corn oil. I should probably modify the recipe to say "neutral oil, not olive oil" or, even better, fresh lard. I have been known to use bacon grease as well. It adds a different note.

That makes sense. I do that as well with the leftover rice and when I want ready to eat portions. Are you saying that you chickened out on the dark roux. Actually that looks really pretty, especially with the red bell pepper. I like to use it when I don't have to give up a body part to get one. edit to add: I forgot to add. I have an andouille warning. Richard Kilgore was taking a learning run using that recipe and I asked him to critique it. I had to add "smoked not fresh" to the andouille description. I would not have thought to do that because, by definition from all the sites that sell it, andouille is smoked sausage. However, some "high toned" grocery stores are apparantly selling something called andouille that is a fresh sausage. He also wisely advised me to describe the flour for the roux more fully. That was a good catch. I was tutoring a friend over the phone a few years ago and he called me back at the end of the roux making to complain that his roux smelled really bad, not deliciously toasty. It took some digging but he finally fessed up to using EVOO and whole wheat flour to make it more "healthy."

Here is what I did with the chicken stock that I had reduced 4:1 after I put most of it up. I make a light brown roux with about 2 tablespoons of chicken fat and 2 tablespoons of flour. In went 2 diced shallots until wilted. I added a splash of white wine, about 1/2 cup and cooked that down. In went diced potatoes, carrots and green peas, white pepper, a little thyme, 1 1/2 cups of the undiluted stock and about 1 1/2 cups of whole milk. It is velvety and screams CHICKEN!

I really don't like much in the way of sweet notes in savory dishes. There are some exceptions. Coconut fried shrimp with a mango/pineapple/habernero dipping sauce is one of my passions and I sample it at various locations when I get a chance. (Scroll down for a picture of a particularly worthy version.) I also like halved seedless grapes in chicken salad. A few years ago, I was doing business a lot in Mexico City and we often had lunch ordered in. Oddly enough, the most common offering was pizza, "Hawaiian Style," with pineapple and ham. I actually actually acquired a taste for it. As for using fruit, it doesn't always have to be sweet. My current craze for pork involves a sour treatment with citrus. (I often use Goya Mojo Criollo or a home made riff on that.) And let us not forget ceviche made with fresh key lime juice. But I really want some foie gras without sweet glop. (Oops. I said that on another thread today. Forgive my fixation. )

Dana, I have done it that way as well, especially if I have a few turkey carcasses to deal with at the same time. Most often, I am using stock out of the freezer so that kind of dictates my logistics. Like I said, there are all kinds of approaches. Speaking of turkeys . . . I made a killer batch one time using the carcasses from smoked turkeys. You just have to remove most of the dark skin so the stock isn't too smokey.

I don't mind salt at all and not pepper particularly. There are differences in taste buds. For instance, if the chef is a supertaster, the dish may not have enough salt for me. I often find that food in restaurants is not salty enough for me. I have come to the conclusion that they are aiming for the lowest amount of salt practical figuring that folks will add to their taste at the table. Universal use of ketchup, sriracha, Tabasco and such bothers me a little as I would like for my guests to try it without it first. But, if they insist, I am not going to waste any significant energy on it.

This is a very good question. It is trickier than you might think because you would like to preserve the texture of the crust and not over brown it while heating the insides. I have only done this once with the product of Mayhaw Man's recipe here. This is a "stand up" pie and I didn't have runny gravy to deal with but I think this might work. I put single servings in a ramekin that looks like this. The idea was to "contain" the filling so that it wouldn't dry out, leaving the crust on top to crisp up. I think I used about 300 degrees F in my DeLonghi convection oven. It would probably work fine without the convection but I wouldn't use too high a temperature. It worked quite well and I think the ramekins had something to do with it. When I tried it in just a dish, the insides did dry out along the edges. Don't even go near a microwave. It does horrid things to the crust.

I'm not sure it is your bad. Sounds like an editor is still in order. Sheesh. It shouldn't be that convoluted. Why? To save a little ink? Now I am really curious as to which book.

Cindy, that looks very good. I am sorry you had to work so hard to get there. I am posting the recipe below. Please note that the sequence of events is important and it will save a lot of trouble. For instance, by quenching the roux with the trinity, you cool it down enough so that adding the liquid doesn't make "Cajun napalm." (I love that term. ) Let me repeat: This is a style of gumbo that I use for teaching purposes as it includes many techniques. It is certainly not the only way to do it. It is just what I learned from The Gumbo Goddess and she had worked out the kinks in about 50 years of gumbo making so this is what I do. Seafood gumbos are a different thing altogether as you simmer the base and add the seafood only at the end so that it doesn't overcook. Also, the roux is not usually this dark, but it can be. And you can add okra or not, tomatoes or not, garlic sometimes sneaks in . . . You see where this can lead! Chicken and Sausage Gumbo South of I-10 Style This is a very basic gumbo that I learned many years ago from a dear lady in LaPlace, Louisiana. She was quite an authority on gumbo and its many styles. She and her far-flung Louisiana family put a lot of energy into “discussion” of one style versus another. This dark and sultry style is a favorite for poultry and sausage of whatever type. We made up the term “South of I-10 Style” because she claims it is more prevalent the further south you go. Turkey is often the bird in question after Thanksgiving. Duck often shows up after a successful hunt. It is not a thick gumbo, due to the very dark roux losing some thickening power in the process, and the vegetables just about disappear. File is often offered at the table for addition to the diner’s liking. The recipe is a good starting point. Endless variations are possible. I have included some techniques that might help achieve that dark roux. 1 c vegetable oil (peanut or canola) 1 c flour (bleached or unbleached white all purpose) 2 c chopped onion 1 c chopped celery 1 c chopped green bell pepper 1 ½ tsp salt ½ tsp cayenne pepper (or more to taste) 6 cups chicken broth (hopefully homemade but Swanson brand will do) 1 lb smoked sausage, not fresh, (kielbasa or andouille) cut crosswise into ½” slices 2 tsp Cajun seasoning (your favorite brand will do) 1 lb chicken meat cut into 1” chunks (best to use thigh meat) 3 bay leaves Chopped green onion, parsley, and file for serving (optional) White rice for serving (NOT optional) About the pot: Don’t even start this unless you have a proper pot, that means heavy. Heavy cast iron is the classic. Enameled cast iron (like Le Creuset) is better because it is easier to judge the color of the roux. Heavy aluminum like Calphalon also works. First you chop your Trinity: Chop the onion, celery and peppers into relatively uniform ¼” chop. Season with the salt and cayenne and set aside… close to the stove. (You will see why in a minute.) Now you make a roux: Combine the oil and flour in your pot and stir together until there are no lumps. It should be liquid enough that it flows well as you stir. Add more oil if necessary. Turn the heat to medium high on a wimpy range or maybe medium on a better burner and start stirring. I recommend using a wooden spatula rather than a spoon as that tool does a better job of sweeping the bottom and corners of the pot. Oh, by the way, you can’t stop stirring so you best go pee before you start this. I call this a “2 beer roux.” That means that you can drink 2 beers before it is ready. I find that it takes me about 30 to 40 minutes to get there, but then I have done this a lot. Better to go slow until you gain some experience. When the roux gets to the color of a Hershey Bar, you are ready to go. WARNING: The reddish Hershey Milk Chocolate Bar color is very close to burning. If black flecks appear, you have burned it and blown it. Start over. Makin’ Gumbo: Dump the seasoned Trinity into the roux all at once and stir like crazy. That is why I told you to keep this by the stove. If you are getting close to burning the roux, this drops the temperature and keeps it from burning. There will be a lot of steamin’ and sputterin’ going on but this has a lot to do with the flavor development. The high heat hitting the vegetables and cayenne makes a flavor difference. Continue to stir and cook for about five minutes until the vegetables are wilted. Add the sausage and bay leaves; continue stirring and cooking for about five minutes. Slowly add the broth (it should be cool) stirring continuously to incorporate. Reduce heat and maintain a slow simmer for two hours, uncovered, stirring occasionally. In the meantime, season the chicken meat with the Cajun seasoning. Add it to the pot and simmer for another hour, stirring occasionally. (Hint, chicken meat is easier to cut into chunks if it is icy.) Excess oil may break out. Skim off if you wish. Check seasoning and add salt if necessary. Serving: Stir in chopped green onion and parsley and serve over white rice. File on the table for adding is optional. NOTE: You can use commercially available roux. (It is really quite good.) The trick will be to get it up to a high enough temperature to sear the trinity/cayenne mixture without burning it. I think making the roux yourself is more fun. It tests your intestinal fortitude… “How close can I get to burning before I dump in those vegetables?” You can double this recipe if your pot is big enough. I usually do because this is a bit of trouble and it freezes well. If you freeze leftovers, add the parsley and green onion only to the portions you serve. Parsley and green onion should always be added fresh.

I think you nailed the essence of gumbo. But I will start the first "argument." Not all gumbos use what I call a dark roux. Now, my definition of "dark" is about the color of a Hershey milk chocolate bar, getting a bit of a red cast and just within a rat's whisker of burning. I do that for some kinds of bird and sausage. For seafood, I don't usually go that far. I learned to make gumbo in the late 60s at the side of The Gumbo Goddess of La Place (Louisiana) and she made all kinds. She had family scattered all over southern Louisiana (gumbo styles were quite regional back then) and the discussions of gumbo recipes could get quite heated, in a friendly extended family sort of way. The cousin from the more western part of the state a bit north of what is now I-10 actually added tomatoes. I may not be able to actually cook along on this one but I will be glad to "drop in" from time to time. I have a recipe for chicken and sausage gumbo that I use for my "Gumbo Tutorials" and I will be glad to share here if you wish. It is really a basic recipe where the proportions are a good median starting point and I go into the tricks and techniques to get that really dark roux. Since RecipeGullet isn't up yet (it's coming, it's coming) I can copy it here if you wish. I can't wait to see what deliciousness pours forth. I can't think of a gumbo I didn't like. (Well, there was that watery stew that I got in West Texas. What was I thinking?) edit to add: I just noticed that you said to add "hot stock." Mais non, mon cher! If the roux is hot, the stock must be cool, as in room temperature, or you will have a heck of a time. Also, by ground chile pepper, I hope you mean cayenne.

That mixture sounds really good. I have done this cut with a dry rub and dry roasting and it turns out great but I have switched to braising in the past year or so and that has become my preferred method. For me, the dry alternative is my smoker but we aren't doing that here. If dry roasting, I rub with whatever floats my boat and I use a knife to make pockets in between the muscle bundles and get some of that seasoning in there. If you go with the braising approach, you cover the pot. I braise at closer to 250. You want a gentle simmer. It sounds like your proposed mixture could be done "dry" as well. Either way, I don't think you can screw this up unless you undercook it. Or, as long as you don't cremate it . . . er, I mean make carnitas.

I love your kitchen. Those open shelves under the cooktop are really neat. I am doing some open shelves under the island counter across from my range. I think that having those open shelves for my most used pots will be quite handy. That picture using the mirror was a stroke of pure genius. Thank you for reminding me that the fries are deemed Belgian. I couldn't remember the Dutch words when I typed my post. Please update me. (My Dutch sucks and is just about non-existent within 15 minutes of strapping a KLM to my butt. I am un-teachable.)

You are looking at about 4 or 5 hours. I am going by Dave's post above. Every hunk-o-pork is different so you can't be precise as in x minutes per pound. The best thing to do is plan for it taking extra time. The good news is that it "holds" just about forever. You want to cook this cut through the 170F temperature stall so there is just about no such thing as overcooking it. In this case, you are watching the thermometer, not the clock. My favorite recipes currently include citrus with garlic, cumin, coriander and black pepper. I have been buying the Goya Mojo Criollo but if you don't have that around just use orange juice sharpened by the addition of lime or lemon and add seasonings to your taste. Go heavy on the garlic. Of course, there are any number of braising liquids that you could use. I have even dumped a big ole jar of Pace Picante Sauce and a bottle of dark beer in there and it was fabulous. (I think I may have had a few of those when I got that stroke of genius. )

I am bumping this up, again, because I have a bean mystery. This has happened twice now. My normal bean cooking involves using the "Parson's method," but I normally do only a half pound of beans. For some time now, I have done several types of beans in my 2 1/2 quart Le Creuset. Reliably, a half pound of beans, 2 1/2 cups of water and 1/2 teaspoon salt (plus whatever seasonings I am using) yield perfect beans in 2 to 2 1/2 hours in a 250 degrees F oven. I then store the leftover half pound of dried beans in a pint canning jar, the idea being that a well sealed jar will keep them from "aging" better that just sealing up the bag and tossing into the pantry. The first "mystery" was the last half of a pound of white beans. The first half were done in a little less than 2 hours. This batch took at least an extra 45 minutes and had spotty hard spots that went away after a night's sojourn in the fridge. The second "mystery" happened this evening. It involved the second half pound of Camellia Red Beans. The first half pound cooked up to creamy wonderfulness in 2 1/4 hours as I recall. This second half pound needed an additional 45 minutes. What the heck is going on here? There has been, at the most, a couple of months residence in a canning jar between the two preparations, each from the same bag of beans. The oven temperature has not changed according to the resident in-oven thermometer. I will confess that the jars are sitting out on the bar because I think they look cool. But, I can't imagine that exposure to light has anything to do with it. Or does it? Do any of you have a clue? I am baffled.

This is really exciting. Thank you for doing this, Chufi. I have spent a fair amount of time there, mostly in The Hague but some time in Amsterdam. The one food "thing" that blows me away is the fried potatoes with the various flavors of mayonnaise. I don't know how all of those little places do it but the only place I have had fries to match them was in Ireland. And the mayonnaise is so good. It is somehow lighter than what we get here. If you have a chance, please get a shot of one of these places and the range of mayo flavors to pick from. There was a kiosk not far from my hotel on the beach in Scheveningen that had the most wonderful concoction with some Indonesian spices. Here, when I ask for mayo with my fries, dining companions go "ewww" and waitstaff look blank. They don't know. Uh . . . If you could get a mayonnaise recipe, it wouldn't hurt my feelings.

Now you have me wondering. I used to drink coffee pretty much all day years ago. For the past few years, I just kinda stopped that. I wasn't thinking about caffeine or anything. It was just a happening. I now only have maybe two big mugs in the morning. The only time I have coffee in the evening is if it is an after dinner coffee toddy type drink. But I have seen a change in sleep patterns as I have aged. I seem to get a maximum of 6 hours. I have been thinking that it is just an age thing but I just might switch to decaf and see if it makes any difference. I could also have become more sensitive to the caffeine. Hmmm. Fresser, you have a good mom.

Wow! A quart of fat from 8 pounds of chicken? No, I don't trim at all. And I got the last little bits of fat out with my fine mesh skimmer. These were just standard supermarket chickens. I gotta go look for the tubbies. I saw that upside down trick but couldn't figure out how to pull that off with 8 quarts. That was one of those "why didn't I think of that" moments. I do intend to try it with braising or pan juice for instance.