Steve Plotnicki

Well in Manhattan the agents need to be more knowledgable then that to be able to sell apartments. There are agents who literally specialize in just a few buildings and make a living out of them. Many of them will try and upsell you into what they specialize in rather then send you to someone who has the specialty you need.

Gee that hasn't been my experience with real estate brokers. I have found that most brokers specialize in selling houses in a certain location and at a certain price point. And that regardless of what the customers say they want to spend, they try to "upsell" them into their price point. Few brokers tell you to go elsewhere because they do not specialize in what you are looking for. What they usually do is to show you crappy houses at your price point, and then good houses at the price point they specialize in which they hope you will move to after seeing them. But I have yet to see the broker who says, you can't get the location and size that you want at that price point, go see a different broker who can help you. They almost all try to upsell you and end up wasting your time.

The BH direct from the winery is up to 90 euros I believe. That should bring the US price in at about $100-$110 a bottle. As for the Gallet, that was when the $/euro exchange rate was .87. Now it is 1.07. That brings the price to $42.50 before any price hikes.

I don't understand why people find this pricing outrageous? Last week at Chez Josephine on the rue de Cherche-Midi in Paris, I had an Omelet de Truffe that I split with someone else (actually it was one course of a 3 course truffe extravaganza) and it was $41. Yes for an omelet. So if eggs can cost that price, I don't see why top quality chopped meat can't cost the same or more? In fact if you take current currency conversion rates into account, the omelet is close to $50. And as to whether there is anything intrinsically wrong with a $50 burger, well the price sort of defeats the purpose of a burger which is to offer a reasonably priced meal. But DB has transformed their burger into a different kind of food then just a sandwich so to me it justisfies the price point. But I can't speak for the Homestead or DB Truffle burger because I haven't had them. But I will try to do that shortly.

Definately. Like pasta.

Tacos are great street food. I have to reservations about hitting my favorite taco lady and eating a few good ones on the street. And I would think that eating a Peking Duck or Moo Shu Pork (would we call them sandwiches, packages?) walking down the street, that would be a good idea.

Here try this Brett in wine

That doesn't do it for me. For it to be upselling, a server has to consciously be trying to move a diner to a higher price point for the purpose of making the check larger. If it is for any other purpose, it isn't upselling as far as I'm concerned. Even if a larger check is a by product of the transaction.

I haven't seen the marketing literature. But I would be surprised if it didn't deal with intent and a server being instructed to try and move the diner to different price points.

Moo Shu failed because of the pancake. Why ruin good food by unneccesarily pairing it with a casing it doesn't need? Peking Duck is the same. Good roast duck that is crispy along with some hoisin to dip it in is a good enough dish. What does the pancake do for it?

Sorry I am not going to be able to agree with this. To me upselling has to result in the customer getting something they ultimately didn't want or didn't need to have. Without that aspect to it, any selling can be described as upselling and that is too vague for me.

Excuse me if I think it is more complex then this example lays out. If I go to a steakhouse with a unrealistic idea of what a NY strip will cost me, so I decide to order a hamburger instead, when the waiter tries to get me to order the steak because it happens to be the best steak in the world and I will really enjoy it, that isn't upselling. Upselling would be when that steakhouse has a sale on 12 oz filets and they instruct their servers that once the customer is in the door, try to sell them the 18 oz steak instead by telling them blah, blah, blah.

Macrosan offers a complicated example. That's because there is tension between the concept of "offers good value" versus getting the customer to spend more money then they intended to. To me, that is wholly different then the waiter telling you that your Foie gras would be better with a different (read more expensive and better) glass of wine which is intended to improve your dining experience. In the former, the transaction is driven around volume and profitability. And in the latter it is driven around quality.

The reason I am trying to hone in on the definition is because I am trying to find out if we are having a food discussion or one that should be on eMarketing.com. Otherwise I do not understand what the difference between upselling and merely selling is. According to FG's definition, from what I see, all selling is upselling unless it happens to be an item at the same exact price point.

Root beer, yum. Birch beer is even better.

But, but, but, but, in order for something to be "upselling," you have to validate a person's original budget as being the starting point. I'm not willing to accept that. Somehow the definition of upselling has to remove unrealistic and unknowledgable customers from the mix or there is no difference between upselling and plain selling. Why is it that when we talk about anything consumables, we grant the customer dispensation on their choice and lock into it as if they know the golden rule? And we then articulate everything the seller does as being manipulative. In fact it is quite often the opposite way around. Sellers are knowledgable and most buyers are unknowledgable. And most buyers instead of being willing to show their lack of knowledge by asking questions of the seller, stick to their poorly chosen choices and then blame their fate on the seller. Just look at Chris's example of converting drinkers to top shelf liquor. Were servers doing diners a favor by moving them to Absolut instead of Maison Dreck or was it upselling?

Well did you ever drink wine with pizza? No matter how many times I've heard someone say "this is a good pizza wine," it isn't any good. Coca Cola is better with pizza then wine is.

Ron - No there are two brand new bottlings that haven't been released to the market before. Stephane told me their names but I forget them.

Gee I don't think that is true if you read through this thread. I think that pretty much everyone has said that while you can call any attempt to get a customer to spend more money upselling, that it is only of interest to us as consumers if their goal if just to make higher profits and not deliver a better quality experience. When McDonald's offers a package of a burger and coke for a special price that is less then the price of the two put together when ordered seperately, that might be upselling based on one mathematical equation, but it has no negative connotation to it. How does that apply to your question? It seems your basis for making the calculation is what the customer intended to spend. Why is that any more relevent then what the server's intent was? Most customers are ignorant of what good quality and good value are. So I ask again, without a negative connotation, where is the discussion here?

You know I don't find downselling so unusual. I think that a fair amount of it goes on at better establishments. In fact quite often the captain at a restaurant tells me we ordered too much food (it rarely helps.)

I can't speak for Neopolitan pizzarias but the pizza at Chez Black on the beach in Positano used to be glorious. The other "great" pizza I knew was at a place in Venice whose name I can't recall at the moment. But it was near La Fenice.

Let's see. Yeah the Gallet will be closer to $50 won't it? If you calculate the shipping back to the states in the price, you pay for the price of a ticket to the Marche by buying appx. 3 cases of wine. As for the 1990 Jamet's, I find all the 1990 Cote Roties lighter in style then 1988, 1989, 1991 and that includes my experiences with both Jamet and Ogier. Finally, I didn't get to taste Stephane's two new bottlings. He invited me to the cave on Saturday evening to taste them but I didn't want to schlep back down to Ampuis from Lyon so on my next visit. But he also made a Condreiu for the first time that I didn't get to taste. And I don't know what the case production is on the BH but I will email Stephane about it.

Fat Guy - I note you are on the same side of the argument as Jaymes. Other than that, if we accept your definition of upselling, there seems to be both, no distinction between upselling and simply selling, as well as nothing to talk about because then there is no controversy. It's just too broad a definition without drawing some inference of intent (trying to drive higher profits) on the salesperson's part. Christopher has it right. Moving people from the bottom shelf to top shelf gins or vodkas was classic upselling. I also assume that Jonathan's graph shows that ultimately upselling is a function of the result. If you take Christopher's example, the push to a better category of vodka might be appreciated by the customer at the higher pricepoint. But if the customer discerns no difference in quality, he might think he got ripped off by being charged an extra dollar or two. And I think that restauranteurs who encouraged their servers to sell top shelf liquor even though their customers didn't find any additional value were classic upsellers and I thought that was what your original post was getting at.

No, upselling is a specific tactic employed by a salesperson to move a customer to a higher price point, or to buy a larger quantity, irrespective of what the customer might need or want. Directing a customer to the right product that fits their needs isn't upselling. That's just being a good salesperson. If you owned a CD shop and you ordered 10 copies of the new Springsteen CD and I as a good saleman new you needed 20 to last through the weekend, so I recommended that to you, that wouldn't be upselling. But if my motivation was my commision and/or management was pressuring me to move goods and I was being less then candid with you about it, now that would be upselling.

No I'm not. I'm distinguishing between a product that I will be happy with and one I won't be happy with. In your definition, it assumes that I am a knowledgable buyer to begin with. Most people aren't. Most people are ignorant (see Blue Hill thread.) If you want to see naked upselling, visit your local real estate broker and tell them you want to spend $X on a house or apartment. I gurantee you that when you go out to look at properties, half the of the ones on the list will be at significantly higher prices then the one you specified.