JAZ

'splain, please. I found the recipe in this little spiral bound book by Kathy Casey, a Seattle food stylist. Obviously I can't copy it here, but basically, you make a fairly standard garlic mayonnaise/aioli but flavored with a pinch of crushed juniper berries. Then, once it's made, you mix in a teaspoon or so of gin, some chopped pimento-stuffed olives and cocktail onions, and some parsley.

There must be something in the air, because I just ran across a recipe for a "martini aioli" meant to be used with shrimp, but I might just have to go get more artichokes to try this.

Oh, sure, tempt me to go make a bloody mary right now to test this theory. (Hey, I have the day off, it's almost 10 am... hmmm...)

Yes, welcome, and thanks for posting. For more opinions, check out this recent thread (the 21 challenge) and this one from the great Q&A with Gary and Mardee Regan (brands). The problem, of course, with specific recommendations, is that you won't find much agreement on brands. And as for which types to start with, it really does depend on what you and your friends like to drink. It wouldn't do much good to have gin and bourbon if you and all your friends prefer vodka and brandy. If, on the other hand, you start with a bottle each of gin, bourbon, vodka, white rum and tequila, a bottle each of white (dry) and red (sweet) vermouth, a bottle of triple sec and a bottle of bitters, and you have on hand lemons and limes, oranges or fresh orange juice, soda and tonic water, and you have a good cocktail book, you'll find that you can make a decent variety of drinks. Finally, here's my preferred bloody mary type recipe. I've experimented a lot, and this is what I think is the best. Clamato gives the drink a much lighter texture than regular tomato juice, which I prefer. (And technically, this is a Bloody Caesar because of the Clamato.) 2 oz. gin Two or three shakes Tabasco (I actually use a sauce called Hot Lime) 1 tsp. Worcestershire sauce 1 tsp. lemon juice 1/2 tsp. prepared horseradish two shakes celery salt two big grind of black pepper 4 oz. Clamato This ends up spicy but not unbearably hot, but you may want to start with less Tabasco and horseradish.

Yep, weird. Malted milk and White Castle burgers? Gotta love those British tonics. And I should say that trying to view the Russian language site caused my computer to crash (a lot of things cause my poor computer to crash), but I'm not holding you responsible for that.

Having posted a question for Gary and Mardee on the Q&A about matching cocktails and food, I feel I have to relate this serendipitous match. Artichokes being on sale, I bought a couple to steam in my new pressure cooker. I made up a Meyer lemon-garlic mayonnaise sauce for them while they steamed. While they cooled, I made a martini to sip (about 4 or 5 parts Boodles gin to 1 part Noilly vermouth, drop of orange bitters). When the artichokes were cool enough to taste, I sampled a few leaves to ascertain whether the mayonnaise was seasoned correctly. Much to my surprise, the combination of the steamed artichoke and the martini was magical. I mean -- really, really great. The artichoke didn't make the martini taste sweet, as you might think. It did, however, give the martini a smoother, fuller mouthfeel. And the martini took away that weird aftertaste you sometimes get with artichokes. I even tried it again the next evening with the remaining artichoke to double check, and found that I wasn't imagining things after all. Now, of course, I'm wondering about trying a few drops of Cynar in my martinis.

no argument there Damn right! That's what I got my degree in. (Believe me, you don't know the meaning of hair-splitting until you've taken a semester-long seminar on "non-existent objects.") You're right, beans, that most customers don't care a lick about the semantics, as long as they get a good drink. And as a good bartender, that's obviously what you care about, too. I have to admit that part of the reason I've been so against the use of "martini" to describe all those other drinks is that I somehow felt that all the drinkers of those other "martinis" were unfairly capitalizing on the Nick-and-Nora-Charles-type cache of drinking a martini, without actually drinking one. Then I realized that this attitude was pretty childish, so I'm sort of over it now. But I still wish there'd be a resurgence of the creative cocktail name. And there probably will be, given enough time. [Edit to add: And I do have a serious problem with the newly-coined term "gintini" which should be purged from the English language forthwith.] Markovitch: Gotta admit it's been years since my days in Phil of Language classes, but prototype theory is intriguing, to me at least. Also, having transcribed a couple hundred of my mother's hand-written recipes into Master Cook, I can see where the grammar of recipe writing could be a great research topic.

Cocktail glass! And why is a fruity apple concoction more acceptable than a substitution in a flavour preference for key lime? What about those "martini" inspired cocktail creations with caramel or chocolate syrup rimmed cocktail glasses? They are lesser and also "infuriating" because of a rim, i.e., graham cracker crust?? Nah. That's creativity and how exciting to see creativity sparked into reviving the new variations upon a popular theme!! As far as Sex and the City, this trend was around way before those girls graced the HBO screen, and I'm sure will be around much longer than the series lasted, as well. I think what Markovitch is saying is that, according to prototype theory, where one stands on the the term "martini" being applied to anything but a drink of gin and vermouth will depend on whether the term "martini" triggers a visual memory of a drink served up in a cocktail (or martini) glass, or a taste memory of gin and vermouth. If it's the former, then one probably won't be bothered by any drink at all being called a martini (apple or lime or anything else), so long as it's served up in a cocktail glass; whereas if it's the latter, then one will be bothered by it. Is that right, Markovitch? I'm not real familiar with prototpye theory, but I took a whole semester on Wittgenstein. (I love Pinker's book -- I mentioned it up thread, as well.)

And what, may I ask, is yuzu?

I think there's something to be said for any book that inspires one. For me, it was Paul Harrington's Cocktail: The Drinks Bible for the 21st Century. It wasn't the first cocktail book I owned, and, objectively speaking, it may not be the best, but it was what really got me started making new drinks. It holds a special place on my shelves because of that. Since then, I've been inspired by others, including Gary and Mardee's New Classic Cocktails, and more recently, Gary's Joy of Mixology. I especially love the charts in Gary's book, which categorize drinks by "family." De Groff's book is wonderful, but I'm sorry to say that I just haven't been personally touched by it in the same way. (Am I totally twisted in admitting that I've been personally touched by cocktail books?) Maybe if it had been the first "serious" cocktail book I owned, it would hold that place for me. And I have to say that ever since I heard that Doc has a forthcoming book, I'm dying to get it when it comes out. And I'm not just saying that because he's going to read this.

It was time to split this into its component parts, so all the conversation about what constitutes a "martini" is now in this thread: A Martini by any other name So if you con't see your posts here, it means they've been moved. If you want to talk about the language question, I'll see you in the new thread. Thanks!

Pellegrino makes a drink called Sanbitter, which is very similar to Campari in taste but nonalcoholic. It's good with soda or Aranciata (Pellegrino's orange soda) or Orangina.

Since I have a bottle of each on hand right now, I thought I'd bring this thread back up and see if anyone has any new ideas, especially for the Lillet Rouge, which I'm enjoying but having a little trouble mixing.

So, today being my day off, I set off for my favorite spirits shop to buy some Pernod so I could make this. Lo and behold, they had no Pernod. But I did happen to spy bottles of Velvet Falernum, which some may remember as an ingredient in the first eGullet cocktail, the Flaming Orange Gully, (created by Dale DeGroff last year). So, my plans changed, and I bought some vodka too, which is also necessary for the Flaming Orange Gully, and some other stuff (including peach bitters). Went home and made my first Flaming Orange Gully. Quite frankly, it was way too sweet for my taste, although the flavor profile was very interesting. With the addition of the juice of half a Meyer lemon, it worked better for me. But I liked the Falernum a lot, so I returned to the idea of the Corpse Reviver, and altered it to: 1 oz. gin 1 oz. Lillet Blond 1 oz. Meyer lemon juice 1/2 oz. Velvet Falernum It was really good, but I was thinking about the peach bitters and aching to try it, so I dumped the drink back in the shaker and added a drop or two of the bitters. It's even better that way. FG, if you liked the F.O.G. and you have some Velvet Falernum left from those days, give this a try. I think you'll like it.

We love it when passing strangers butt in, but beware! you might like it so much you never leave. Welcome!

Can't put my hands on it right now, but I think I remember reading somewhere that caffeine is one of the bitterest substances around -- certainly one of the bitterest ones we regularly ingest.

Yes, definitely. The first couple of times I made it I used 80 proof, and it turned out fine. You may want to let the vodka and lemon zest steep longer before adding the simple syrup and additional vodka -- I let mine go for almost a month -- because the lower proof doesn't extract the flavor as well as the higher proof. The upside is that I didn't have to add water to dilute the strength when I started with 80 proof.

Is there an easy way to zest all those lemons? Much as I love my microplane, I love this serrated peeler even more for getting large amounts of zest off citrus fruit: Messermeister serrated peeler You can get just the zest (not pith) off in large strips in under a minute per lemon. It's the greatest. (You can also peel tomatoes without blanching them first, if you're so inclined.)

I wouldn't think of Tanquerey 10 as an "upgrade" from the regular Tanquerey (despite the more expensive price) so much as a different style. Much less juniper, which is preferable for some drinks, less so for others.

Bourbon, Tennessee whiskey like Jack Daniels, and Canadian whiskies like Crown Royal are much sweeter than Irish or Scotch whisky, and it sounds like that's what you like. Unfortunately, I don't think you're going to find anything like that flavor profile in anything European. On the other hand, you might branch out and try some bourbons and other Tennesse whiskies-- Maker's Mark, Wild Turkey, George Dickel, Bookers, etc.

Well, then, I guess I'll pick up a bottle of the peach, but not the mint. Too bad; I had hopes for the mint.

You know, when I was at my favorite spirits shop the other day, I saw that they had Fee Bros. mint bitters and peach bitters too. Anyone tried these?

Just wanted to let everyone know that I split off the very interesting side discussion of bitters into its own thread. In case you're wondering where all those posts went, check out this thread.

I think, Tana, that it's undeniable that the trend toward naming every new drink a fill-in-the-blank martini is spurred by marketing. "Martini" conveys elegance, sophistication and, well, coolness in a way that "cocktail" does not. I don't think it's an accident of language that everything is now a "martini" rather than, say, a daquiri or a margarita, even though, in construction, the new drinks are often closer to them than they are to the classic martini. Yes, I wish that new drinks were not all called "martinis." No, I don't think it's going to stop. I really like the creativity in bartending these days (even if I personally don't like many of the drinks) and if usurping the name "martini" has helped that trend, then I (very reluctantly) have to say that it's not all bad. This is a very new attitude on my part. A very big part of me still wants a martini to be gin, vermouth and bitters. Period. As a lover of the language, I really, really wish that new drinks had the great names of older drinks -- how can a "fill-in-the-blank martini" compete with a Corpse Reviver, a Satan's Whiskers, a Monkey's Gland, a Blood and Sand? When I create new drinks, half the fun is coming up with a cool name. But, marketing rears its head in the cocktail world, just as it does everywhere else. Is a Key Lime Martini, language-wise, any worse than a Mexican Caesar Salad? I've come to the conclusion that this is one battle I'm not going to win. It doesn't mean that I'm going be calling my new drinks "martinis," but it does mean that I'm over my outrage. But, believe me, I do understand your point. You're not alone. PS Reading Steven Pinker's book The Language Instinct totally changed my attitude about "word abuse."

Welcome! Here are two versions, both by eGullet members: Click here for a recipe by beans, and here for Katie Loeb's version. Of course, they may be different from the one you had, but at least they'll give you a starting point. Good luck!