vserna

Michael: I have only tasted Malaysian fruit in London, shipped by air, and obviously it isn't the same. Then again, have you tasted mamey and guanábana from Cuba? The stakes for tropical fruit are very high in this world! Do consider what I mean about western Europe, in reality a small place by worldwide standards: Scottish Angus beef, Guijuelo Iberian ham, Rhône valley vineyard peaches, Seville bitter oranges, Whitstable oysters, aged Modena balsamic vinegar, Cádiz bluefin tuna, Breton lobsters, brie de Meaux, Campanian mozzarella di bufala, pré-salé lamb, radicchio trevisano, saucisson de Payerne, Carril clams from Galicia, Dutch 'maatjes haring', Cavaillon melons, salame Felino, Cantabrian sea bass... and of course San Marzano tomatoes! Meaning: the distinguishing characteristic in the wealth of products here in Europe lies in their amazing variety (fish, fruit, fowl, meat, cheese, wine, pulses, vegetables, salads, oil...) within the top quality levels.

I'm skeptical about the first half of this assertion given what I keep hearing about the mad homogenizers in Brussels. Europeans did elect them didn't they... so they do represent a majority of europeans, don't they? Don't just believe what you hear about mad homogenizers. Come to Europe and taste what's left after they've homogenized everythiung down to the bone. Come to European covered or open markets selling fresh produce: La Boquería in Barcelona, La Brecha in San Sebastián, Testaccio or Campo de' Fiori in Rome, Mercato di Mezzo in Bologna, the Halle in Lyon... (Or to the large wholesale markets - Rungis in Paris, Mercamadrid in Madrid...) See and taste what's available out there. Judge for yourself. The proof is in the pudding. Or in the tomato.

Several responses... 1. I am not defending the idea that Italy, little Italy, has all the best ingredients in the world, even though it does have the greatest tomatoes by a mile. But I do believe western Europe as a whole, with three main agricultural powers (France, Italy and Spain), has the richest portfolio of top-notch ingredients in the world; more than the USA. There is also more popular resistance to industrial uniformity of foods in Europe (not to mention genetically modified ones...) than in the USA. 2. More on bluefin tuna from Spain to Japan... http://www.harvard-magazine.com/on-line/0902130.html 3. Yes, Italy imports American wheat; who doesn't? But top-quality pasta is made of durum wheat, and I think Italy is a pretty huge producer of that type of wheat. Also, Italy is the world's largest importer of Spanish olive oil (Spain being the world's largest olive oil producer) and for centuries all of this olive oil has been bottled in Italy under Italian brands. Of course this does not refer to top-notch single estate extra virgin olive oil from Umbria or Tuscany, which is indeed utterly local, but to the main "Italian" brands everyone is familiar with throughout the world.

Well, I've never found any tomatoes at Union Square that could compare with the best at Testaccio or Piazza San Cosimato. Italy has the best tomatoes in the world, by a mile or two. (I'm from Spain, and we're not supposed to say those things. But there's simply no discussion. Italy has the greatest supply of non-industrial tomato types anywhere. They take pride in them, and they wouldn't have them any other way.)

Re Fat Guy's list: Steve: The Ducasse book is a total sham, as is his list. He was trying to win over the American public. Ducasse has strictly no idea of what is available in Europe outside of France. He doesn't know Spain, he doesn't know Italy, he doesn't know Germany, he doesn't know Austria, he doesn't know Portugal, he doesn't know Sweden. Ethnocentrism is at least as big in France as it is in America. Immodestly, I know the markets of western Europe and those of the US, overall, better than him. Some of his items are ridiculous. American baby eels? European abalone? What are we talking about here? What is 'bass'? American striped bass, European sea bass, Chilean bass? I love American produce. I have volunteered a few great American ingredients on this thread. Yet I would sharply reduce Ducasse's list of 'as good or better' to the following items (including, of course, the elimination of all items which are not simultaneously produced in Europe and the US, like pompano or snapper or catfish or maple syrup, which of course render all comparisons moot): Beef Bison Blueberries Chili peppers Clams Crabs Ginger Grapefruit Halibut Honey Morels (and I'd add something Ducasse forgot: chanterelles!) Oysters Potatoes Pumpkin Radishes Scallops Snow peas Walnuts Re sushi-quality fish: Steve, I think the trade between Spain and Japan is at least as large as between the northeastern US and Japan. A large amount of the red tuna, for toro or maguro, found in Tokyo comes from the southwestern Spanish coast, with Japanese ships permanently on call at Barbate and Zahara de los Atunes to process the tuna caught there. You have to come to the Iberian peninsula and eat some fish and shellfish here, Steve. It'll open up a brave new world of ichtyological possibilities!

Hey, you can look at it the other way 'round. Now that Madrid is getting its share of extremely sophisticated and authentic Italian restaurants, my friend Alfredo from the Bronx (a soldier at Torrejón air base 35 years ago who decided to stay in Spain), who serves easily the best burgers I've found in continental Europe at his two Alfredo's Barbacoa joints in Madrid, has opened a place called Brooklyn USA, "an Italian-American eatery". The local crowd of former New York residents, me included, is delighted at the uncanny Little Italy flavors Alfredo and his wife have been able to impart to their sausages and to their spaghetti with meatballs. See, beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder!

I'll add my own two Eurocents to Bill's very restrictive list of great American ingredients: Washington State Kumamoto oysters and real New England littleneck clams. Wonderful stuff, it can be! And how about the northern red snapper (to non-American readers: this is a fish, the Lutjanus campechanus, which we don't have in Europe; it's Mexico's huachinango)?

What is truly Italian and what is Italian-inspired? Would a modern restaurant in Italy, like Vissani, not be truly Italian either, if they don't specialize in real bollito misto or real abbacchio alla romana?

You're not, Pedro. Miami's La Broche was closed months ago. In the final phases Sergi Arola was not involved at all.

This difficulty is certainly much less marked in Europe (or at least the 'wealthy' part, the European Union) than in the US. Everything Italian, including fresh vegetables and fresh seafood, can now be found in such places as Berlin, Vienna, Paris or Madrid. And transportation is now extremely fast.

Well, vmilor, you're now privy to a Madrid restaurant specialty: that of being the most 'mis-rated' city in Europe in the Michelin guide. In another thread I recently referred to Combarro (and I was thinking specifically of the newer Ortega y Gasset branch) as "probably the most spectacular seafood place anywhere right now – I’ve seen wine writer Stephen Tanzer almost swoon over tiny ‘camarón’ shrimp there..." I'd say Combarro and, in a different style, O'Pazo (the roast turbot with just its juices and a drop of sherry vinegar as accompaniment is an amazing experience) are this city's best seafood places, followed by a great, down-home Galician tavern, Casa d'a Troya, where the lobster 'salpicón' salad is fastuous. Curiously, of the three only Casa d'a Troya sports a Michelin star. Why? Madrid is full of restaurants specializing in 'simple' food where the raw materials are of foremost experience, and in that niche market no other city in Spain has anything comparable. (For instance, few foreigners are aware that this is one of the great steak cities on the continent: Asador Frontón, Casa Julián...). But Michelin, and Rafael García Santos locally, have a lot of trouble with these places. They don't know where to put them. Indeed, the culinary creativity is less in them than in the more 'cuisine-oriented' restaurants. But a place like Combarro, in the end, with that wealth of produce, is scarcer than good 'modern cuisine' places, and should be recognized for the overall quality of its offer. After all, if a guide can recognize the greatness of a modest Casa d'a Troya, why does it fail to recognize a Combarro? One word on the starred restaurants: La Broche can be brilliant, but it has a marked problem of consistency. La Terraza del Casino and Santceloni are more reliable in that sense, IMHO.

I've never seen or heard an Italian describe the River Café as the best Italian restaurant in the world... Let's be serious! With the vastly improved availability of Italian products and the similarity with many Spanish products, plus the ever faster influx of Italian cooks into Spain, the level of Italian restaurants has much increased lately in this country. In Madrid particularly (by far the city in Spain with the best nucleus of non-Spanish restaurants). Three names: a top-notch modern Italian restaurant that should sport a Michelin star if Michelin knew what it was doing (Ars Vivendi), an excellent regional, fish-oriented restaurant (Taverna Siciliana) and a classic no-frills neighborhood trattoria with a solid Milanese-inspired menu and a clever choice of southern Italian wines (Vecchia Milano).

That's not just an English problem! Except in places like Dallas, Durham or St. Louis, most people around the world think that barbecueing is grilling some steaks and burgers on a metallic grill with wheels in a garden or back yard... Heck, when I was growing up in New York 40 years ago I can tell you that none of us had an idea what real southern, smoky barbecue slowly cooked in a wood-burning smoker, was or what it tasted like... That was as foreign and exotic as tapas back then.

There is a bit of a semantic confusion here. 'Tapas' is a plural form - the Spanish word in the singular form is 'una tapa'. (From its primitive origin: 'una tapa' means 'a cover', as something that was placed on top of a tiny sherry glass in Seville bars, some say to keep the flies away, and was offered free of charge to the customer who ordered the sherry.) A tapa is not a smaller portion, it's actually a tiny morsel: a potato chip with an anchovy on top, or a stuffed olive and a pickled gherkin on a tiny skewer, or a tiny bread slice with a pickled mussel... When, in Spain, you go out 'de tapas', it means 'to sample many different tapas'. To make things more precise, someone will propose to go out to 'cenar de tapas', or 'dining on tapas': this way you know that the tapas will be replacing a regular dinner, not just acting as a peripatetic hors d'oeuvre session. The smaller portion of a dish that you mention will not be called 'una tapa' in Spain; it will be called 'una ración' - literally, 'a portion'. Most of the time, on a bar spree, one will have a few 'tapas' and a few 'raciones'.

Oh. Oh. I'd suggest the word "comrade" applies more to those who want to turn Ferran Adrià into what he is not nor does he intend to be than, for instance, to me. Manipulation and tergiversation of a person's thoughts is a typical exercise in totalitarianism... So please don't consider me a "comrade". Your tirade gives me a better understanding of this whole discussion: not only do several posters ignore Ferran's actual cuisine, but they haven't read his books, either.

You're right, Russ. I now realize I had better leave this theoretical/rhetorical discussion. A chunk of manchego will help me survive this rough spot. Bit of wine, perhaps - I see an open flask of Di Majo Norante that promises a decent Spanish-Italian combination...

are you sure ferran adria knows that? I am.

Food and wine are things to be experienced (and, it is hoped, enjoyed) before they are discussed. We're not talking nuclear physics here - some comparisons simply don't apply. I'm not being supercilious, I'm just trying to point out that a great undertow of groundless silliness seems to pervade the whole subject of Ferran and his way with food.

It's not a 'killer argument'. It's that I am a very basic, very old-fashioned, very unimaginative food writer: I never theorize on a restaurant and its place in the grand scheme of things until I can sit down and eat a proper meal in it. Obsolete attitude, I know...

Very deep, all this. Have you ever been to El Bulli?

Goodness gracious, what a complicated subthread. Ferran Adrià is far out into futuristic creativeness, but he's no fool and he won't eat his own food 100% of the time. He craves a nicely grilled red mullet as anyone in Mediterranean Spain does. And his buddy Rafa has the perfect raw materials in his little bar, and he prepares them simply and flavorfully, so Ferran is there all the time to sample some of those simple delicacies. The rest is heavy intellectual speculation.

Shouldn't a strike against classicism be termed "revolutionary" rather than "reactionary", Jonathan?

The winner is 2001 Paloma Merlot. No doubt a great wine, in the line of Cinq Cépages. For some reason, in Spain the WS list provokes dangerous outbursts of uncontrollable laughter.

http://www.alimentaria.com/indexeng.html

I've just looked up their web site. It's much more precisely circumscribed to cooking demonstrations or lectures (how much can one demonstrate in 30 minutes?) by one top chef from each of Spain's autonomous regions, which gives it a somewhat artificial or forced 'political' content. There are two sessions on culinary creativity in the Americas in which Thomas Keller is tentatively announced as a speaker.