Craig Camp
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Posts posted by Craig Camp
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click below for Raccolta: 1999 Vietti Barolo: Brunate, Rocche and Lazzarito
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That was your time not mine - I live in Italy.
That was 9:20 a.m my time.
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I believe you responded to "delicate" aromatics. There are many delicate aromatics in wine - fruit being one of them. Fruit is often the first one to go in an older wine. The question I was trying to ask is don't you lose some of the remaining primary fruit aromatics with extending decanting?
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It seems you are trading a softer, less harshly tannic wine for one missing many of the most delicate aromatics of pinot noir which have surely blown off after hours in the decanter. You are trading texture for aromatics.
Frankly, this has not been my experience at all. The wine in question in this thread, for instance, lost nothing in the way of "the most delicate aromatics." I know, because I sampled it when first decanted, then sipped it over a period of extended time, and it only became more harmonious, both on the nose and the palate. This has been my experience again and again, with both red Burgundy and domestic pinot noir.
You don't like the idea of extended aeration? Fine, don't decant! I'll opt to do otherwise.
Is there no question of losing some of the fruit aromatics?
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It seems to me you are taking a distinctive approach and just saying "I like it the that way so its better" is not helpful to the debate.
...and coming out with guns blazing saying "you're just wrong" is helpful? [You haven't done this, Craig, but that's how the debate got started and how the tone of the debate got set]
While it is conventional wisdom not to decant Burgundy that does not make it correct.
Conventional wisdom where? Certainly at restaurants in Burgundy and among the fine food community in France; no dispute there. The vignerons are, at best, more of a mixed bag. The Burgundy community here in town (and, from what I know of it, in the US at large) would largely consider it heresy not to decant Burgundy in many cases.
I sincerely apologize if I seem to have "come out with guns blazing" as this was not my intention. However the question of if it is better to decant or not to decant Burgundy is a real question. Over decades I have been told repeatedly by people I respect not to decant Burgundy - especially older Burgundy.
I do not mean in any regard to be harsh, but I would like to inspire some rational and substantiated debate on the matter.
I will not pretend to know the real answer, but only offer my opinion based on what I have learned to appreciate in Burgundy over the years.
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I am not trying to take the position that it is wrong to decant Burgundy. That is a case of personal preference. My question would be is why is there such a substantial record of statements suggesting not to decant red Burgundy? Certainly this would be considered the "conventional" wisdom on the topic. There is no doubt that it changes the wine to expose it to air for extended periods - the question - and I hope a reasonable matter for debate is why it should or should not be done. It seems to me you are taking a distinctive approach and just saying "I like it the that way so its better" is not helpful to the debate. While it is conventional wisdom not to decant Burgundy that does not make it correct. However, for me I have found over my years of tasting that I prefer being exposed to every aspect of the wines evolution once it has been open. Nothing grows and changes in the glass like pinot noir. Do you give up part of the evolution by decanting for hours and hours before you experience the wine? I think this is a real question.
I would like Mark Sommelier to join in here as I am sure he pulls the corks on more Burgundy bottles than all of us put together - and I am sure some of the bottles don't get finished so he gets to taste many wines at different moments of their evolution after opening.
Like most things in wine I don't believe there is an absolute here for anything but an absolutely interesting conversation.
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It is also common in burgundy cellars that all of the wines you taste from bottle have been open for days. The vignerons don't write books on this or post TNs, but they do it all the time. They also occasionally pop open a bottle and let you taste it immediately -- but IME this is less common.
I would have to say that I have rarely been presented a bottle in Burgundy that was not opened in front of me and when it has happened the grower will usually present it with a warning - oh this was opened yesterday.
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Yes I understand apologies for going too fast. That what happens when you read fast without your glasses on at my advanced age. Once again sorry for the distraction.
However, everyone one I have ever talked to in Burgundy would claim that you miss many of the delicate aromatics of pinot noir (or chardonnay for that matter) with extended decanting.
It seems you are trading a softer, less harshly tannic wine for one missing many of the most delicate aromatics of pinot noir which have surely blown off after hours in the decanter. You are trading texture for aromatics.
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MY mistake on white. But I still wonder for red? Who in Burgundy recommends extended breathing for reds?
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For me these extended breathing times for a white Burgundy seem extreme and unnecessary. What is the theory here? Can anyone come up with supportive comments from winemakers or established Burgundy experts that would recommend such an activity or why it may improve the wine. The necessary oxidative process has already occurred in barrel and bottle for such a wine. I have been to Burgundy many times and they don't decant their reds much less their whites. To just make such a claim without historical support from established experts seems nothing more than hearsay evidence.
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Welcome to eGullet Mary. Why don't you give a us a little more background about your winery and more about the Paso Robles zone, with which I am not very familiar. I couldn't find your wines in my local store (actually the only foreign wines in the store are a really terrible Beaujolais and Cotes du Rhone from some co-op) and would like to know more about what you do. I noticed on your website that your production is indeed small. Also I can't remember - is Paso Robles an AVA?
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Sad to see Dick Peterson, famed CA wine maker and on-line friend, was unable to rescue this once fine winery.
I guess he is finally ready to semi-retire and continue to consult.
Phil
Sometimes, no matter how talented you are, it is too late to save a wine brand. Consumers have long memories for great wines and poor wines, but no memory at all for average wines. Folie a Deux was average (and at high prices) for too long. Why try it again - even if the wines improved - when there are so many good wines to choose from? A tough situation for a new winemaker to overcome no matter how famous they are.
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Folie a Deux had an impact when they started, but then quickly fell into the nameless ranks of people making pleasant, average wine. A sure fire way to go out of business in Napa.
Now it is Trinchero's folie a deux million or 10 or 20 million - whatever they paid for it. I see it as a brand name with no value anymore.
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Just had to add a quick 'ack!
$12 for a bottle of the La Crema Pinot? 
Don't I wish I'd been in your neck of the woods. I was just about to grab a bottle yesterday, when the $18.99 sticker caused me to pull my hand back, and reconsider. 
I love the stuff, was doing a raspberry glazed duck for dinner, and had pinot noir on the brain since first light, but mon dieu! It's added about $5 since the last bottle a month or so ago. 
Never fails with a yummy, affordable favorite. As you can see by the spread of pricing on the La Crema - it matters a lot where you live when it comes to pricing and what wines are available. On such general questions there is no replacing a dedicated and well-informed wine merchant. This is the best way to discover real bargains in your market. Perhaps your best approach would be to post in your regional forum and ask who the best wine merchants are for your needs.
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The Winebow rep and I had a moderate debate. We also continued the debate with respect to Notaio's La Firma. But I concluded it by saying that the wines will have no trouble selling even if none are sold to me. We both seemed to agree on that point. I wish I could have heard that argument!
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They should rename the dal Forno wines and call them "essence of Valpolicella" - amazing concentration.
It is very interesting to see a region where the two top producers have exactly opposite styles.
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It's a shame that the both Arigolas and Santadi go the ultra-modern route for so many of their wines, but they use the same hot shot consulting enologist so that is not a surprise. I would give the edge to the Santadi top of the line Terre Brune as maintaining more of that "wild" character, but the barriques are pretty pronounced there too. Some of the less expensive wines from both of them are more "Sardegna" in character than their top wines. However, neither producer is over the top like so many producers in Sicilia (Planeta for example) and I think all of their wines still taste more like Sardegna than Australia.
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It all seems a little sad. Here are two great, but differing palates that should be ignoring each others reviews. Isn't the point of being a critic to say this is MY opinion of a wine - not that it the only opinion.
I have not tasted this wine, but because of these these two divergent opinions by two excellent tasters that have clearly defined their personal preferences over the years I know exactly what this wine tastes like.
I will say from a personal viewpoint I admire Jancis Robinson's mini-war to maintain the character of terroir in Bordeaux.
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The 96 Nino Negri, Valtellina Sassella “La Tense” is a pretty tasty bottle! These are wines are ignored in the USA - I suppose it is their delicate character and lack of barriques. If you like that I would also recommend from my other neighbor the Fara wines of Dessilani - Caramino and Lochera (more forward of the two). They should be well under $20.
Anselmi and Pieropan are on another level when it comes to Soave. I have to admit I still lean towards the firmer Pieropan wines over the richer Anselmi wines, but frankly am very happy to drink either. Up and coming is Suavia, but go for the firm and complex Monte Carbonare not the overly oaky Le Rive.
I wish I could find that incredible Terres Dorees Beaujolais in Italy, but I think I have to drive there and buy some - it's worth the drive.
WTN: 1990 Moillard Corton Clos des Vergennes
in Wine
Posted
Do you recommend this much breathing both for richer/fruity producers and more acid/tannic producers? Also what about between different communes like Vosne Romanee and Volnay. What styles benefit the most from the most air?