Suvir Saran

Paan mixed with tobacco and the other ingredients has known to have been the source for cancer of the mouth in some people. In fact a friend of the family, wife of a doctor who chewed a lot of the paan mixes (these are not paans just a blend of ingredients that is created to impart the taste of paan) is now suffering from mouth cancer. Her face is hollow and all bones. The operations have made her go from being one of the most beautiful women I ever knew to being a walking nightmare. She is only in her late 40s. It is sad watching her. She felt she was safe chewing the non tobacco mix and over indulged in them. Look what happened. But then I know of a person very close to me who has never smoked, chewed tobacco, drunk any alcohol or eaten any meats or fish and he has been diagnosed with a fatty liver. Shocking for he never did anything that would lead to those symptoms. So one never knows how life pans out for anybody. It has mysterious ways. My grandmother always says moderation and good luck are what life is all about. I tend to now believe her more than I did when I was younger.

So here we have it Jinmyo... you are right in that catechu is the botanical name of Betel Nut tree, also called Areca Nut Palm. I saw these at a spice plantation in Goa this trip to India. The fuit is called betel nut and is used in paans. I am giving link below for information on the tree. Areca Nut Palm/ Betel Nut And Kattha that is used as a paste in the making of Paans is the extract from the Kher or mostly the Gambier tree. The purified Catechin is called Kattha. The link below is to the Gambier tree. Gambier Tree: Source of Kattha Thanks for initiating this. Since I do not eat Paan and am quite against their consumption, I would not have otherwise tried to understand what Kattha was. Now I know more and you are responsible for having educated me.

Jinmyo you may be right but I am told that the trees that I mention are somewhat different from the betel nut trees. Kher and Gambier are the trees from whose pith catechin is extracted and refined. The betel nut palm is another tree. But I could well be wrong. I wish I knew an expert who could help clarify this. Maybe we should check under the trees and see if they are different from each other. I will do a google search now.

There is hope for Tamarind. I am told through the restaurant grapevine that Tamarind has brought in a very well respected chef from India. An old veteran Tandoori chef at Bukhaara (the temple of Northwest Frontier cooking, a restaurant in Delhi) he will certainly add to the kitchen what they lost after Hemant Mathur moved to California. Now that I am back from travels I look forward to going and dining at Tamarind very soon. It holds a dear place in my heart.

Yes I did let our server know that I was very disappointed that they could not bring our meals at the same time. That the first plate that was served me came cold and the second plate for my guest came no less than 10 minutes later, also mostly cold. I let be known that a table of two should not be difficult for most people to serve at the same time. I would be forgiving if I were a part of a very large group. It seemed to make no difference to the server. I felt she was new and was not certain about how to handle this. Maybe she just thought of me as a chronic complainer. Which I am certainly not. I actually become very docile when dining out. Since I have owned and operated a restaurant I am keenly aware of the many problems that can easily overwhelm the functioning of a restaurant. I try to be as low key as possible. When the owner came to say hello to me at the table I first extended my condolences and sympathies. We made some polite conversations and then I mentioned the food having been cold. My mistake may have been to say that in the same breath as I said to him that he looked deeply sad. And I asked if I could do anything to alleviate some of this sorrow. I also inquired if I could be of any assistance in planning a memorial for Raji. Maybe the essence of my disappointment with the food was lost in the sincere sympathy I felt for him and the restaurant.

It is not the betel nut, catechin is a purified extract from the pith of the Kher or the Gambier tree. And yes betel nuts are added into the melange of ingredients that are stuffed into Paans (betel leaves). The color you talk about comes not from the nut but from this extract of catechu.

Think fenugreek leaves. Dried if fresh are not available. They work very well with mushroom stir fries. Thanks for the mushroom steak suggestion. Sounds great.

It is the same in the US for the most part.

Jinmyo, My mother told me that Katta is called Catechu (sp?) in English. It is derived from the resin of the scarcely found Kher(sp?) tree or now days from another tree the Gambier (sp?). Kattha is the purifef Catechin (sp?) from either the Gambier or the Kher trees. It has many medicinal uses and also used as a dye. It is one of the essential ingredients of paan and that particular ingredient that gives it the brownish color. Since I am relying on a phone conversation and none of the words are spell checked, I am not sure what the correct spellings are. I am hoping I have written them correctly. She also pointed out how there has been much furor in India about several packaged blends of mouth fresheners that are now considered to be carcinogenic. And Kattha is one of the ingredients. She did point out that there is no proof however about Katta being carcinogenic. On the contrary she told me it has several medicinal purposed at least from the hollistic point of view.

And now I ask you what makes the onion bajias, pakoras and samosas different in the two places? Or is the difference very subtle that you cannot point out what it is but can taste it nonetheless? To most Indians Onion Bajia or Bhajia would be just another way of saying Onion Pakoras. IN some parts of India pakoras are called bhajjia. But the base is the same for the most part. IN some southern Indian versions a little rice flour is added to the chickpea flour batter in which the onions or other veggies are dipped and t hen fried. But the addition of rice flour is not one even most Indians can catch. The spices added to the batter may change from state to state and that too can often be too subtle and so not many would catch that either. With that in mind, I am wondering what is so different between the Scottish and English versions. Seems exciting to discover more about.

Let us know about Tabaq. I have heard raves about it. Have fun.

sounds nice... and nope none of us can remember it all. I seem to forget even names.... have to take some of those herbs... which ones would be good for memory? Anyone know?

Hasmi, Yes I knew Curry was the favorite food there. I have been telling friends here about that statistic. It seems to not surprise anyone here. When is Curry day? Where did it originate Hasmi?

Hasmi, What is a mogo.. you mention it in your post above.

An English woman I met in Singapore said the following about fruits and veggies in Asian countries: "Tropical sun and heat, gives their produce flavor and taste unlike that found anywhere else." You are so right... oranges from Nagpur in India and Morrocco are just a breed apart from even the best we find here. The dates, figs and grapes one finds in the middle east and India are so very different. Perhaps the grapes are not good for wines but nothing matches their subtle yet evident flavor. When making Indian desserts I make it a point to buy Indian or even Iranian raisins. They are delicious. I can eat those all day long. They are smaller in size and have intense flavor without being too sweet. And yes I am lucky I grew up having had the luxury of membership into the Delhi Gymkhana. I grew up seeing a world and a time of history I would have never known otherwise. It is not a place or lifestyle I want or go after today, but certainly one I admire for many of its winning points. But yes there are rampant flaws in that world and like any other lifestyle, it too has both its good and bad points.

Do you remember where some of the Indian immigrants came from? As in what part of India? You are on target about the regional differences. And that has played a great role in the subtle changes we now see taking place in the INdian food movement in NYC. As a more diverse group of Indian immigrants come here, they also bring with them the need for foods from their regions and often some expertise that is translated into hands that create new foods in this foreign land. What are these Scottish Pakoras like?

I have heard of some people using betel leaves in some southern states. I have no examples or proof so I hesitate to say more. As for betel leaves, those I have seen in India and also those I saw in Singapore this last trip there seem to leave no color at all. Stuffed betel leaf chewers have color stains in their clothing sometimes and stained teeth most often not because of the betel leaf but because of the Katha rubbed on the leaf. I wish I knew what Katha would be called in English. Maybe someone at the site will help you. Betel leaves are considered as appetite stimulants and when stuffed with spices, betel nuts and sometimes even rose leaf jelly (gulukand) become digestives. The food section in the NY Times had done a story not too long ago on Paan. The betel leaf preparation with lime paste, katha and the above mentioned ingredients.

My granparents lived in Calcutta and yes the Delhi Gymkhana is to Delhi what Tolly is to Calcutta. The retired civil servants or the scattered anglos went there to eat and play bridge and 21 card rummy for those that were new to cards.

I have started a new thread for us to learn about the differences between the Scottish and the English version of Indian Sub-Continental foods. Looking forward to learning about what makes them different.

Are they really diffrent? What makes them so?

Jeremysco, And those were the grand old Indian Clubs as well. Yes subsidized liquor and aerated drinks from their own Soda Factories. But the last such soda factory in Delhi (Delhi Gymkhana) closed due to want from the members for Coke and Pepsi labels. How sad. And yes-proper attire was always necessary. In fact an ex Indian Prime Minister, I think it was VP Singh was denied entry into the club while in office for not having come in proper gentlemanly attire. It created quite a stir. The Club was accused of being elitist, classist, racist and an extension of those troubled days when the British meted out that treatment to the natives. But I loved the Gymkhana growing up. Found it very calm, serene, peaceful, and civilized and a world of its own. The lending library was better stocked than many public libraries in smaller US cities. The librarian knew first names of my parents their siblings, my grandparents and their siblings and of-course my siblings and I. He knew what books to send home with me those odd weeks when mom did not make her weekly trip to the library. Attached to the library were the reading rooms. One for reading dailies, another for the members wanting to read books in quiet and a third for dependents like me who wanted to read but perhaps would challenge the rules of silence every so often. And I remember well seeing many members taking a snooze hidden in some corner of the club. Many were doing this after a lunch meeting, before heading back to work. Every Monday over the summer we would go for the out door film screening and eat Chola Bhaturas (chickpeas with deep fried puffy bread) or Chinese foods from the stalls adjacent to the screening. As soon as the lights were dimmed and the movie started it was us eating our food, watching the film and cats rummaging below for scraps. At the end of the movie we ate pastries and ice cream. The chocolate and Caramel Éclairs are the best I have ever eaten anywhere. In fact, I was so spoiled by these very good ones that now I am easily disappointed by even the best. They had not very good chocolate to work with, but the pastry and the cream were amazing. Perfect in short. The lemon tartlets similarly were a taste of life in heaven at every tiny bite. All this in a very regal setting. In the heart of beautifully planned Delhi. One of the small wooden gates used by the gardeners to water and trim the hedges looked at the front entrance of Indira Gandhi's residence during her days in office. But all of that is slowly changing. I am not sure what the food is like at the Gymkhana anymore. I have not been back in a very long time.

This is wonderful. I will have no need for a guide book to use while in London. Thanks guys. What is the difference between the Scottish and English versions of Indian food? I have heard great things about Lahori and Tabaaq. And Tabaaq was trying to come to NYC. The deal they were making seems to have fizzled. I must research as to what happened with it. I am surprised to hear that Chutney Mary has not been given better reviews by you guys. After all it is one of the restaurants done by the famous and very well respected Punjabi sisters (Camelia and Namita, Camelia of Taj fame). What is it that does not work about Chutney Mary? Veeraswamy: I have heard great feedback from Indians visiting London and people I can implicitly trust. They love the food and everything about it. Also some story about it being one of the older Indian restaurants in London. Is that true? Zaika: What a great name. Does everyone know what it means? It is the urdu word for taste. Often used when something has a great taste. I heard great things about it and of course about the Michelin star. What are these Clubs you all talk about like? What makes them such that they are called Clubs? In India the Clubs we have are a leftover of the Raj. Mostly very restrictive in membership, often in terrible disrepair, managed as if the British are expected back from their game of Golf any moment, old world service for the most part (that is a great winning point in my book), and some of these exclusive clubs in India have waiting lists for memberships that run close to 5 or 6 decades. Are the English versions of Clubs similar? Our Indian Clubs serve Indian and Continental foods. Actually the Gymkhaana Club in Delhi was at one time famous for great Chinese food. I am curious to know more about these Clubs.

Snowmans in Bombay is open and till selling the soft icecreams.

Vivin.. you are kidding us right?? I am really very finicky when it comes to mangoes. I find them too sweet at times and too bland at others. But I will wait to taste these. Maybe I can get the number for this store in Stamford and I can ask them to ship me a case when he gets them in. Thanks for sharing this with us.

Simon have you heard of Lahori?? It is a kebab house that I have heard endless praises of. No fuss, hole in the wall restaurant but great tandoori and north western fare. Would love your feedback. keep me posted on your NYC trip. Maybe I am here when you are.. and it would be nice to meet.